Player Watch Pick #16 (2016) - Todd Marshall

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So many stratwmen arguments.

I dont expect Todd to dominate Lever and May. They are the best combo in the business.

I expect a few things.

1. Hard working repeat leads making space for himself and others. None of this lead once then stand stationary with a hand in the air.

2. Contest the ball in the air when it's his turn. Mark a few when he's in the right position and do everything possible to bring the ball to ground when he is not.

3. Manic defensive pressure.

If he does these things and kicks zero goals I won't care.

If he does these things every week he will kick goals more often than not, will have the occasional day's out where it clicks and he kicks more and he will bring others into the game.

1 it can be argued is game plan and coaching reliant but 2 and 3 are non negotiable.

I was about to mention that 1 is unlikely because of coaching before I got to your last sentence. I'm glad you acknowledged that.

I also agree that I'd like to see Todd do more to contest in the air. The thing is, that's not the game he is built for. If we wanted him to do that, they would have locked him in with the weights and protein shakes.
 
I was about to mention that 1 is unlikely because of coaching before I got to your last sentence. I'm glad you acknowledged that.

I also agree that I'd like to see Todd do more to contest in the air. The thing is, that's not the game he is built for. If we wanted him to do that, they would have locked him in with the weights and protein shakes.
That's a soft excuse and not the Port Adelaide way.

Timmy G competed in the air, Butters competes in the air, Wanganeen competed in the air, Hoff competed in the air.

Like I said I don't expect him to win it every time, or even most of the time, but I expect him to fight like hell to do so.
 
That's a soft excuse and not the Port Adelaide way.

Timmy G competed in the air, Butters competes in the air, Wanganeen competed in the air, Hoff competed in the air.

Like I said I don't expect him to win it every time, or even most of the time, but I expect him to fight like hell to do so.

Don't get me wrong, I also want to see him do it. I also would like to see him have the strength and build to do so consistently. The first of these is an effort thing, the second is coaching and strategy.
 

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Don't get me wrong, I also want to see him do it. I also would like to see him have the strength and build to do so consistently. The first of these is an effort thing, the second is coaching and strategy.
Yep but that's what I'm saying. If is giving the effort and being hamstrung by coaching or conditioning staff I won't hold it against him.

He hasn't done that consistently yet.
 
I think Todd 'contests' plenty in the air, he gets involved in plenty of packs and brings the ball to ground for the crumbers. His problem is he needs to actually hold a few more of the contested attempts himself rather than just bringing it to ground every time.
 
I think Todd 'contests' plenty in the air, he gets involved in plenty of packs and brings the ball to ground for the crumbers. His problem is he needs to actually hold a few more of the contested attempts himself rather than just bringing it to ground every time.

What, and mess with the Coaches' cunning plan?
 
I think Todd 'contests' plenty in the air, he gets involved in plenty of packs and brings the ball to ground for the crumbers. His problem is he needs to actually hold a few more of the contested attempts himself rather than just bringing it to ground every time.

This is a creative way of saying that he jumps in the air and sometimes touches the ball.
 
Tonight will be the making of Todd Marshall.
 
Hoff competed in the air.

Bit of revisionism here

The hoff was great in the air if he didn’t have an opponent and could run and jump at a pack / man unimpeded.

If he had a defender on him he was hopeless in the air.

Which is why he was so contentious and his selection as a kf was questioned when playing up the ground suited his strengths.
 
I think Todd 'contests' plenty in the air, he gets involved in plenty of packs and brings the ball to ground for the crumbers. His problem is he needs to actually hold a few more of the contested attempts himself rather than just bringing it to ground every time.
Yeah exactly this.

Certainly doesn’t get outmarked more than any other kf. Brings the ball to ground. The days of gun and no name defenders alike racking up monster intercept games conveniently disappeared once we started picking Todd.

The problem is he just isn’t clunking as many as we would like, and too often he’s caught behind / out of position in marking contests.

We could attribute the latter to him solely if we want, but when our gameplan is mocked by our fans for not kicking to our kfs it’s a bit hypocritical.
 
Bit of revisionism here

The hoff was great in the air if he didn’t have an opponent and could run and jump at a pack / man unimpeded.

If he had a defender on him he was hopeless in the air.

Which is why he was so contentious and his selection as a kf was questioned when playing up the ground suited his strengths.

The irony.
 

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The irony.
Marshall has shown an ability to play the kf position ( actual position not a utility up the ground losing his man pushing back inside 50) that westhoff never had.

What westhoff had was some of the best mitts when he got his hands on it port has ever had. That and his running for a big guy was insane. He covered ground, lost his opponent if he ever had one, and picked high balls off. Plant westhoff in our f50 today next to any key defender and he would be shit. Don’t take my word for it, he was literally maligned his career for it.
 
Marshall has shown an ability to play the kf position ( actual position not a utility up the ground losing his man pushing back inside 50) that westhoff never had.

What westhoff had was some of the best mitts when he got his hands on it port has ever had. That and his running for a big guy was insane. He covered ground, lost his opponent if he ever had one, and picked high balls off. Plant westhoff in our f50 today next to any key defender and he would be shit. Don’t take my word for it, he was literally maligned his career for it.

Point missed entirely. Your views on Westhoff are fine. It's the fact you can't see that you also perfectly described Marshall's limitations thats ironic. It remains to be seen if he's more effective up the ground.
 
Can't see Todd achieving much tonight with our usual game style, bombing it in, and being second ruck against Melbourne.

He will be knackered in the last quarter so don't expect much then.

Looking forward to the day when our forwards, of whatever height, get entries kicked to their advantage.

Nor do I expect Georgiades to have much success either. He can jump good, but is still very much a learner in other areas.

As for leading patterns, I doubt any have ever been taught in HinkBass's years. I'm not sure those two will have heard of them.

Anyway, I will go to tonight's massacre. How would you feel as a Port player if there was no one there for you?
 
Westhoff and Marshall have very different skillsets. Westhoff had better hands but Marshall is a much more natural key forward in terms of leading patterns, bringing his teammates into the game etc. Westhoff was better at reading the ball in the air, Marshall has better disposal skills and vision. Marshall is a better set shot. People just conflate them due to build.

All the worry about "competing" is a red herring for me. Marshall is absolutely getting to and halving a lot of contests with Dixon out. Holding more marks would be nice, as it would with all our key forwards since Schulz/Butcher. When Dixon is playing, Marshall's role tends to be to sit 25m in front of Dixon for the spill/pressure in the event if a turnover, rarely is he targeted in the forward line.

Remember that every marking contest is a failure of strategy. In a functional forward line working at peak effectiveness, marks are taken on the lead or while in space. What we saw against the Crows was better for 3/4s, but we reverted to jamming it high and long when under pressure in the last quarter.
 
He is lol


He’s also kicked around the same amount of goals over the last 3 years as both those players combined
I don't see much point in comparing Todd to either. However to correct the stats.

Todd's average is 1.09. 1.1 if you take into account the Geelong game although it is likely the other players have not completed games due to injury.
Last 3 years 51 goals in 46 games

Sam Weidemanns average is 1.06. Todd's goal average is 0.04 higher. He kicks less than a point more than Sam every 2 games.
Last 3 years 37 goals in 30 games

Mitch McGovern has a career average of 1.25 which is higher than Todd's so that is flat out wrong.
Last 3 years 37 goals in 35 games

He has not kicked anywhere near as much as both players combined. He has kicked more goals than either player but has played 11 more games than Mitch and 16 more than Sam.

Not only are your stats incomplete and therefore misleading, they are flat out wrong.
 
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I think Todd 'contests' plenty in the air, he gets involved in plenty of packs and brings the ball to ground for the crumbers. His problem is he needs to actually hold a few more of the contested attempts himself rather than just bringing it to ground every time.
I understand this is a matter of opinion but I don't see this. He roves too many contests that he should be involved in. In packs he rarely even touches the ball. One on one yeah he doesn't get outmarked a lot but there are not a lot of second efforts.

Probably due to his build and his age to a degree. I don't know whether it is due to the conditioning staff or whether he is just a hard gainer. I suspect the latter. But it is also due to effort and intensity.

Playing up the ground he doesn't get involved enough. Some of it may be due to gameplan but Todd has to take responsibility to as again there is a lack of intensity on his part.
 
Remember that every marking contest is a failure of strategy. In a functional forward line working at peak effectiveness, marks are taken on the lead or while in space. What we saw against the Crows was better for 3/4s, but we reverted to jamming it high and long when under pressure in the last quarter.
This is a trendy statement and there is some truth to it.

However often disposals inside the forward fifty are made under pressure, and from a part of the ground where it is impossible to reach the players that are leading or in the clear without the attempt miscueing or being cut off. The best you can do is sometimes is kick to the advantage of a one on one forward which we still don't do often enough granted. But to say every marking contest is a failure of strategy is to assume that the disposal is made in time and space and that the disposer has the kick, vision and access to the forward line from his position to reach every player in the forward line which is rarely the case.

Often the forwards that are reachable are not on a decent lead or in undefended space. Yes we can do better than we do. But a kick to a contest is not alway a failure of strategy, kicking to the advantage of our player in a contest is the best available play.
 
Todd's average is 1.09. 1.1 if you take into account the Geelong game although it is likely the other players have not completed games due to injury.
Last 3 years 51 goals in 46 games

Sam Weidemanns average is 1.06. Todd's goal average is 0.04 higher. He kicks less than a point more than Sam every 2 games.
Last 3 years 37 goals in 30 games

Mitch McGovern has a career average of 1.25 which is higher than Todd's so that is flat out wrong.
Last 3 years 37 goals in 35 games

He has not kicked anywhere near as much as both players combined. He has kicked more goals than either player but has played 11 more games than Mitch and 16 more than Sam.

Not only are your stats incomplete and therefore misleading, they are flat out wrong.

A) I said the last three years he’s kicked around as many goals as both combined.

B) Marat claimed most posters would be happy if he lifted his goal averages to mcgovern and weidermans.

As you just laid out, Marshall’s goal averages compare well to theirs

Lol
 
Can't see Todd achieving much tonight with our usual game style, bombing it in, and being second ruck against Melbourne.

He will be knackered in the last quarter so don't expect much then.

Looking forward to the day when our forwards, of whatever height, get entries kicked to their advantage.

Nor do I expect Georgiades to have much success either. He can jump good, but is still very much a learner in other areas.

As for leading patterns, I doubt any have ever been taught in HinkBass's years. I'm not sure those two will have heard of them.

Anyway, I will go to tonight's massacre. How would you feel as a Port player if there was no one there for you?

The simple fact of the matter is the goals have to come from somewhere. Even if we get mauled, we will still kick 8-10 goals and Marshall should be expected to contribute his 1-2. If we get mauled, we will start to get the rub of the green and a few cheap free kicks to our forwards. Even with an average performance he'll still get a couple of opportunities. He just has to take them, which has been a problem in the past.
 

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Player Watch Pick #16 (2016) - Todd Marshall


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