Review Pies 82 def Dogs 73

[dogwatch]

Don’t get all the people questioning English, let’s just leave him in the vfl then and have another tall that’s played less than 50 games by the time they are 25/26

Go back and have a read. I don't think anyone has suggested he shouldn't be playing seniors.

 

[Doggies_13]

Go back and have a read. I don't think anyone has suggested he shouldn't be playing seniors.

No need to take my post personally. Every week people are carrying on cause our key position players aren’t playing like they are 100 games in and want to constantly drop them.

Then the same people whinge about why can’t we ever develop Talls. It takes patience and putting games into them.

So feel free to go back and read over the last few review threads and the constant comments on our talls and this week seems to be English’s turn

 

[Fossie 32]

I expect he'll make it, it's just a question of when.
I'm impatient. If he is only a little better next year AND he's our 90% first ruck then we aren't challenging for finals, and we should be.
He'll need to improve massively or get some help. At this stage getting some help seems a safer bet.

Seems to me he has improved heaps since last year. If he keeps improving at that rate hopefully he will be fine next year.

 

[Igloo]

Grundy was absolutely the difference today in terms of personnel, but i'm not going to worry about English too much for this performance. Grundy is insanely good. Easily the best ruck in the comp (much better than Gawn imo), and by the end of his career will be talked about in that upper echelon of ruckmen over the years.

Our goal kicking continually letting us down is just so demoralising. There simply has to be some visible change to it soon, be it with a change in forward coach or trades. Or both. Just please learn to kick goals.

 

[footyfan000001]

Gee wizz we aren’t far away when we want to play good tough footy and we run. Just struggling with the polish inside 50. Feel like we just didn’t kick it to Naughto much, anyone else notice this?? Let the big fella jump!!

 

[bresker]

Gee wizz we aren’t far away when we want to play good tough footy and we run. Just struggling with the polish inside 50. Feel like we just didn’t kick it to Naughto much, anyone else notice this?? Let the big fella jump!!

Yes if we kicked it out in front of him and gave him a chance to run and leap , he might have taken one of those marks he’s quite good at. Sounds basic but that’s how it looked from level 3

Bont didn’t seem to spend any time as a true forward tonight. You’d think that Bont Schache and Naughton would have created some chaos when the game was on the line

 

[SharkMeister4]

Im one of many that is fed up with having to watch another game where we were monstered in the ruck and lacked a big key forward, but can only assume people are joking when beginning to bash the club about us not having the personell considering the player we assumed would be playing the role we desperatly need retired at the age of 23

 

[go you pups]

Yes if we kicked it out in front of him and gave him a chance to run and leap , he might have taken one of those marks he’s quite good at. Sounds basic but that’s how it looked from level 3

Bont didn’t seem to spend any time as a true forward tonight. You’d think that Bont Schache and Naughton would have created some chaos when the game was on the line

Bont was saving our ass in the back half around that time

Won some crucial hardball gets and cleared the ball out of D50 when the Pies were pressing

But yeah, I was also on level 3 and Schache and Naughton were largely ignored all arvo, but whenever we kicked it to the hotspot or deep to their advantage, they'd make something of it, particularly Schache.

Macrae among others was a culprit I thought when the team was overpossessing the ball across half forward then wasting it with them dinky half assed lack of penetration kicks that got chopped off regularly thus setting up counterattacks for Collingwood from the turnovers at half forward from these kicking errors, really undid his defensive work I felt (think he had 13 tackles or something). Around 2015-16 it was a knock on him, but last year he started nailing those kicks, just hope yesterday was a one off in that regard.

Just wish we'd play fast and direct, if there's no clear free option inside 50 then just get it in long to a tall to contest, that's the key forwards role...

 

[ScragCity]

I've almost had enough of following this club to be honest. Haven't won a flag in almost three years and I can't see us winning another for at least two or three more.

 

[_M_16_]

While the seasons been alive, Beveridge has played:

Hayes
Gowers
Lachie young
Roarke smith
Ryan Gardner
Bailey dale

These guys have played VFL (or been omitted):

Pat lipinski
Josh Schache
Jackson Trengove
Toby McLean
Ed Richards

I love beveridge. He’s a special, special coach. But his selections in 2019 have been a complete debacle. Very hard to win when we’re on a knife’s edge as is.

Is that a bad thing those guys playing VFL?

Lipinski was our worst player in JLT1 by far, Bev said in an interview a few weeks later he wants Lipinski to learn to play the inside role, cue the moans on here that he is a forward only and Bev will ruin him. Since his return he has been close to one of our best 5 players.

Schache was rightfully dropped for lack of effort without the ball, came back in this week and showed a little more hunger

Richards was badly out of form and likely having second year blues, dropped for a week and came back being close to our best player in the first half. His work rate was immense and he found the ball at will

McLean been a passenger and hasn't shown his magic like he used to in flashes in previous seasons. Even if its the result of him being misused, wouldn't exactly be making a good example if we let him ride out all 22 games, need something to motivate him more.


As for those who were given chances

Hayes deserved a chance to show what he has got, played well for Footscray last season, had a solid preseason, hye more than earned his chance

Roarke Smith was one of our better forward players for a few weeks in a row, form deserves to be rewarded regardless past AFL form or biased opinions on here. A few AFL players have gone on to show themselves as a best 22 players on their 3rd or forth chance. Not everyone is a Sam Walsh, Connor Rozee type that hits the ground running from game one. Even our own Bailey Smith took a few games to click into gear

Dale was close to best 22 a couple of years ago, but hit hard with injuries. He was always going to get another chance. What has happened to him form wise since who knows

Young wasn't great, but he wasn't bad either, shows he has some traits to make it at senior level with time and experience

Gardner was always going to divide people. We were a club crying out for tall forwards, with Boyd retired, Schache out of form. We had a free hit to draft someone who already knows our system and done okay in the early VFL rounds. Didn't pay off at this stage, but people calling it a terrible list management decision, I mean FFS the coaches tried something. Better than sitting on asses and doing nothing

I don't understand the over the top criticism of people on here on the coaches or players just because the player given a chance at AFL senior level didn't live up to the expectations. According to the way many on here talk, we might as well never try new players, never take risks, never reward VFL form, keep best 22 players who are out of form, and never blood new players. EVERY TEAM has players that succeed, and others that don't make it at AFL level.

Damned if they do, damned if they don't. Its "bad coaching" either way apparently

 

[Doggy]

Is that a bad thing those guys playing VFL?

Lipinski was our worst player in JLT1 by far, Bev said in an interview a few weeks later he wants Lipinski to learn to play the inside role, cue the moans on here that he is a forward only and Bev will ruin him. Since his return he has been close to one of our best 5 players.

Schache was rightfully dropped for lack of effort without the ball, came back in this week and showed a little more hunger

Richards was badly out of form and likely having second year blues, dropped for a week and came back being close to our best player in the first half. His work rate was immense and he found the ball at will

McLean been a passenger and hasn't shown his magic like he used to in flashes in previous seasons. Even if its the result of him being misused, wouldn't exactly be making a good example if we let him ride out all 22 games, need something to motivate him more.


As for those who were given chances

Hayes deserved a chance to show what he has got, played well for Footscray last season, had a solid preseason, hye more than earned his chance

Roarke Smith was one of our better forward players for a few weeks in a row, form deserves to be rewarded regardless past AFL form or biased opinions on here. A few AFL players have gone on to show themselves as a best 22 players on their 3rd or forth chance. Not everyone is a Sam Walsh, Connor Rozee type that hits the ground running from game one. Even our own Bailey Smith took a few games to click into gear

Dale was close to best 22 a couple of years ago, but hit hard with injuries. He was always going to get another chance. What has happened to him form wise since who knows

Young wasn't great, but he wasn't bad either, shows he has some traits to make it at senior level with time and experience

Gardner was always going to divide people. We were a club crying out for tall forwards, with Boyd retired, Schache out of form. We had a free hit to draft someone who already knows our system and done okay in the early VFL rounds. Didn't pay off at this stage, but people calling it a terrible list management decision, I mean FFS the coaches tried something. Better than sitting on asses and doing nothing

I don't understand the over the top criticism of people on here on the coaches or players just because the player given a chance at AFL senior level didn't live up to the expectations. According to the way many on here talk, we might as well never try new players, never take risks, never reward VFL form, keep best 22 players who are out of form, and never blood new players. EVERY TEAM has players that succeed, and others that don't make it at AFL level.

Damned if they do, damned if they don't. Its "bad coaching" either way apparently

You should know by now this place is cancer ... most have no idea and those are the same ones who piss and moan no matter what

 

[Hard Ball Get]

The good

Richards and Schache making decent returns after their twos spells and Daniel and JJ taking the game on and trying to make things happen

The bad

Stop overpossessing the ******* football. When we have no clear options to kick to then play the percentages FFS

Kick down the line out of defence if needed, force a stoppage on the wing, regroup

When no clear options inside 50 to kick to, just kick it to the hotspot and let Schache or Naughton fly for the footy and contest, just pissfarting around with it at half forward is not giving them a chance to contest...

No, no no no. Not kicking down th line is the better percentage play.

Rewatch the game and take note of when we went down the line. It played into their hands and they won the footy back.

The break the lines breakneck possess, possess, possess game style broke up their structure. A few times we used one too many handballs and lost a scoring opportunity, but that will happen when playing tht style.

Collingwood wanted the "percentage play", we denied them of that and if we hadn't of done that, we would have been smashed.

 

[Johnny_Dogg4]

we just dont create enough opportunines from open play and stoppages. most the time its from a mark. one dimensional attack

 

[Doggy]

we just dont create enough opportunines from open play and stoppages. most the time its from a mark. one dimensional attack

What are you talking about? There were endless opportunities to score and as soon as we recruit some natural forwards we will win those types of games and win well

 

[Mofra]

Brick? Dicko?

Trengove

 

[LoveDamoBarrett]

Is that a bad thing those guys playing VFL?

Lipinski was our worst player in JLT1 by far, Bev said in an interview a few weeks later he wants Lipinski to learn to play the inside role, cue the moans on here that he is a forward only and Bev will ruin him. Since his return he has been close to one of our best 5 players.

Schache was rightfully dropped for lack of effort without the ball, came back in this week and showed a little more hunger

Richards was badly out of form and likely having second year blues, dropped for a week and came back being close to our best player in the first half. His work rate was immense and he found the ball at will

McLean been a passenger and hasn't shown his magic like he used to in flashes in previous seasons. Even if its the result of him being misused, wouldn't exactly be making a good example if we let him ride out all 22 games, need something to motivate him more.


As for those who were given chances

Hayes deserved a chance to show what he has got, played well for Footscray last season, had a solid preseason, hye more than earned his chance

Roarke Smith was one of our better forward players for a few weeks in a row, form deserves to be rewarded regardless past AFL form or biased opinions on here. A few AFL players have gone on to show themselves as a best 22 players on their 3rd or forth chance. Not everyone is a Sam Walsh, Connor Rozee type that hits the ground running from game one. Even our own Bailey Smith took a few games to click into gear

Dale was close to best 22 a couple of years ago, but hit hard with injuries. He was always going to get another chance. What has happened to him form wise since who knows

Young wasn't great, but he wasn't bad either, shows he has some traits to make it at senior level with time and experience

Gardner was always going to divide people. We were a club crying out for tall forwards, with Boyd retired, Schache out of form. We had a free hit to draft someone who already knows our system and done okay in the early VFL rounds. Didn't pay off at this stage, but people calling it a terrible list management decision, I mean FFS the coaches tried something. Better than sitting on asses and doing nothing

I don't understand the over the top criticism of people on here on the coaches or players just because the player given a chance at AFL senior level didn't live up to the expectations. According to the way many on here talk, we might as well never try new players, never take risks, never reward VFL form, keep best 22 players who are out of form, and never blood new players. EVERY TEAM has players that succeed, and others that don't make it at AFL level.

Damned if they do, damned if they don't. Its "bad coaching" either way apparently

Regarding Gardner, yes we were offered a chance to do something but decided to jsut look in our back garden AGAIN. Do we not have scouts interstate? When is the last time we drafted someone good from our VFL side?

 

[fronkalicious]

Is that a bad thing those guys playing VFL?

Lipinski was our worst player in JLT1 by far, Bev said in an interview a few weeks later he wants Lipinski to learn to play the inside role, cue the moans on here that he is a forward only and Bev will ruin him. Since his return he has been close to one of our best 5 players.

Schache was rightfully dropped for lack of effort without the ball, came back in this week and showed a little more hunger

Richards was badly out of form and likely having second year blues, dropped for a week and came back being close to our best player in the first half. His work rate was immense and he found the ball at will

McLean been a passenger and hasn't shown his magic like he used to in flashes in previous seasons. Even if its the result of him being misused, wouldn't exactly be making a good example if we let him ride out all 22 games, need something to motivate him more.


As for those who were given chances

Hayes deserved a chance to show what he has got, played well for Footscray last season, had a solid preseason, hye more than earned his chance

Roarke Smith was one of our better forward players for a few weeks in a row, form deserves to be rewarded regardless past AFL form or biased opinions on here. A few AFL players have gone on to show themselves as a best 22 players on their 3rd or forth chance. Not everyone is a Sam Walsh, Connor Rozee type that hits the ground running from game one. Even our own Bailey Smith took a few games to click into gear

Dale was close to best 22 a couple of years ago, but hit hard with injuries. He was always going to get another chance. What has happened to him form wise since who knows

Young wasn't great, but he wasn't bad either, shows he has some traits to make it at senior level with time and experience

Gardner was always going to divide people. We were a club crying out for tall forwards, with Boyd retired, Schache out of form. We had a free hit to draft someone who already knows our system and done okay in the early VFL rounds. Didn't pay off at this stage, but people calling it a terrible list management decision, I mean FFS the coaches tried something. Better than sitting on asses and doing nothing

I don't understand the over the top criticism of people on here on the coaches or players just because the player given a chance at AFL senior level didn't live up to the expectations. According to the way many on here talk, we might as well never try new players, never take risks, never reward VFL form, keep best 22 players who are out of form, and never blood new players. EVERY TEAM has players that succeed, and others that don't make it at AFL level.

Damned if they do, damned if they don't. Its "bad coaching" either way apparently

Yes, playing roarke smith, will Hayes, billy gowers and Ryan Gardner is bad coaching. Really bad.

None of those guys is AFL standard.

Won’t be backing away from that.

 

[maddog37]

Grundy was absolutely the difference today in terms of personnel, but i'm not going to worry about English too much for this performance. Grundy is insanely good. Easily the best ruck in the comp (much better than Gawn imo), and by the end of his career will be talked about in that upper echelon of ruckmen over the years.

Our goal kicking continually letting us down is just so demoralising. There simply has to be some visible change to it soon, be it with a change in forward coach or trades. Or both. Just please learn to kick goals.

Gawn torched Grundy a couple of weeks ago.

 

[ScragCity]

I find it hilarious that so many criticise the fact that we short pass on the kick ins rather than try to launch it to the 60-70m mark. They clearly overlook the fact that we are the best D50 to F50 team in the comp.

Watching Essendon trying to get the ball out of D50 against West Coast really made me appreciate our ball movement and having Caleb Daniel.

 

[Shadesof54]

I thought we played well , but for mine it comes down to the forwards coach
He has to take responsibility for the failed forward entries the bad kicking at goal , failure to execute etc...

Tough I know but that’s his department !

When Schache and naughton are standing shoulder to shoulder in the f50 that’s on him .. when a player marks 30 out on a slight angle and is more inclined to look for a pass , that’s on him

the mark schache took out in front and Goaled from was great , but sadly a one off ..

If this was the NFL the Offensive Co Ordinator would be left at the airport after a performance like that , you simply can’t waste your dominance , and it’s happened a few times this year ( the ravens did this in their last super bowl win)

If sacking is too harsh , then Bring someone else in along side of whoever is responsible pronto

 

[_M_16_]

Yes, playing roarke smith, will Hayes, billy gowers and Ryan Gardner is bad coaching. Really bad.

None of those guys is AFL standard.

Won’t be backing away from that.

And you cant say or know if they are AFL standard or not unless you give them a few games at AFL level, in the case of Gardner true? So how is that bad coaching to find out? So your theory is, they should never have gotten a game at AFL level at all, that we can assume they wont be AFL grade without a game and we shouldn't give them a few tries to find out?

As for Gowers, we don't exactly have anyone on the list who has a big body who can play the third man role. Maybe our list forces us to play his type

I think you're just one of those people who get a little extra grumpy when a player gets a shot at AFL and doesn't work out based on just a couple or so games. Thus its terrible coaching.

I rather us try/give people chances and new roles and fail, than do nothing at all. The latter in my opinion is bad coaching.

 

[The Slitherin' Snake]

While the seasons been alive, Beveridge has played:

Hayes
Gowers
Lachie young
Roarke smith
Ryan Gardner
Bailey dale

These guys have played VFL (or been omitted):

Pat lipinski
Josh Schache
Jackson Trengove
Toby McLean
Ed Richards

I love beveridge. He’s a special, special coach. But his selections in 2019 have been a complete debacle. Very hard to win when we’re on a knife’s edge as is.

Pretty bang on except for Bailey Dale. I think he has talent, but might not have the intensity / hardness to make it. Worth a shot

 

[TempletonTheRat]

Yes, playing roarke smith, will Hayes, billy gowers and Ryan Gardner is bad coaching. Really bad.

None of those guys is AFL standard.

Won’t be backing away from that.

but you are only replacing them with other players who are not AFL standard !!!!!!!!!!

 

[Outback Footy]

10 goals 13 behinds to 13 goals 4 behinds

Exactly this. In any game a 50% return on goals is expected, were not far off, but Collingwood just couldnt miss. Thats what won them the game. We did amazingly well considering Grundys dominance. If the pies kicked like mortals and ended up 9 goals 9, we win by 10.

Good game, beaten by an arsy bunch of bastards who couldnt miss on the day. DONT PANIC.

But please get Ryder to give Tim some relief.

 

[Next Waiting]

We had enough opportunity to win despite Grundys dominance. Poor conversion again and failing to captilise on those opportunities the main factor.

I agree with Bucks to an extent. Sidebottom was the one who mopped up and bailed them out of trouble more than any other.