Pies make Jolly offer

[SirJimi05]

yeah i wondering how the cats got hold of 2 1st round picks, so 2 1st round draft picks for a 25/26 yr old ottens, who i rate miles ahead of jolly and the cats certainly didnt get ottens cheap, and some of you guys want a simaler deal for jolly. hmmm

As i said my memory was very vague on this trade. I just googled it and Richmond did recieve pick #12 + #16. The Cats got hold of the 2nd 1st round pick by sending Moloney to Melbourne. He was a top #4 pick so you could actually argue that Ottens was worth #4 + #16

FWIW you won't rate Ottens miles ahead of Jolly if the Pies do land him and you get to watch him on a week to week basis. The guy is as good a ruckman as anybody playing the game. I would have him in front of Ottens.

 

[BarneyBent]

yeah i wondering how the cats got hold of 2 1st round picks, so 2 1st round draft picks for a 25/26 yr old ottens, who i rate miles ahead of jolly and the cats certainly didnt get ottens cheap, and some of you guys want a simaler deal for jolly. hmmm

Ottens is a very good ruckman, but is a level below Jolly (who in turn is a level below Cox, and Sandi at his best). Ottens had also had knee troubles in when traded, Jolly is basically a clean slate injury wise. The only thing Ottens in 04 has over Jolly in 09 is 2 years, which is partially, if not completely, made up for by the fact that Jolly has demonstrated far superior durability compared to Ottens.

 

[collingwill]

As i said my memory was very vague on this trade. I just googled it and Richmond did recieve pick #12 + #16. The Cats got hold of the 2nd 1st round pick by sending Moloney to Melbourne. He was a top #4 pick so you could actually argue that Ottens was worth #4 + #16

FWIW you won't rate Ottens miles ahead of Jolly if the Pies do land him and you get to watch him on a week to week basis. The guy is as good a ruckman as anybody playing the game. I would have him in front of Ottens.

ottens is a much better footballer IMO much more versatile, maybe not miles ahead of jolly but certainly better allround, could probably play perm forward if the need arised, and he was a lot younger than 28 when that deal happened.

 

[SirJimi05]

Ottens is a very good ruckman, but is a level below Jolly (who in turn is a level below Cox, and Sandi at his best). Ottens had also had knee troubles in when traded, Jolly is basically a clean slate injury wise. The only thing Ottens in 04 has over Jolly in 09 is 2 years, which is partially, if not completely, made up for by the fact that Jolly has demonstrated far superior durability compared to Ottens.

In a pure ruck sense i reckon Jolly is a better ruckman than Cox and Sandi is only better than Jolly because he is so freakin tall.

 

[collingwill]

Ottens is a very good ruckman, but is a level below Jolly (who in turn is a level below Cox, and Sandi at his best). Ottens had also had knee troubles in when traded, Jolly is basically a clean slate injury wise. The only thing Ottens in 04 has over Jolly in 09 is 2 years, which is partially, if not completely, made up for by the fact that Jolly has demonstrated far superior durability compared to Ottens.

thats the point a lot of you are missing, a 26 yr old is prime in any position, a 28 yr old is close to being a veteran, if jolly was in great form and 26 sure, 2 1st rounders would be a fair deal, but not at 28, 28 you get 1.

 

[Furn]

You cant compare Ottens now to Jolly because when Ottens was traded he had just had a couple of very ordinary years after being AA in 2001.

Whether Ottens is better now or not is irrelevent because at the time he was traded he was struggling, thats why Richmond let him go. If he was in the form he has been in the last 3 years he would have got way more than 12 and 16.

 

[raff23]

It certainly wouldn't be. You could only get him if one and most like both your likel trades fell apart. Hawthorn have got contracts agreed so they fit within the salary cap and there would be a huge risk that if Jolly became available you would a) need a 1st Round Pick and b) need to clear even more space in the salary than you had planned on because he is on a huge contract and the Swans won't agree to pay part of that contract.

He would be the highest earner of the three you would be trying to trade for and the Swans would be asking for a lot more than McGlynn, Kennedy and a 1st Round Pick.

No player doesnt matter how good they are is worth more than 3 picks. That my friend is ridiculous. Pick 9 and a kennedy or mcglynn would surely be enough to get a deal done with any player. Kennedy is very promising and mcglynn had his best yr he has ever had. It is not like they are getting nothing in return, both players have proven they can cut it at AFL level. So many unrealistic offers being made it is getting beyond a joke.

 

[SirJimi05]

thats the point a lot of you are missing, a 26 yr old is prime in any position, a 28 yr old is close to being a veteran, if jolly was in great form and 26 sure, 2 1st rounders would be a fair deal, but not at 28, 28 you get 1.

That is why he is only worth pick #14 + good player as opposed to the probable two top #14 picks he would fetch if he were in this form but 2 years younger.

 

[Carpaccio]

Jolly for pick 14

http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,26164117-2722,00.html

 

[swanton]

ottens is a much better footballer IMO much more versatile, maybe not miles ahead of jolly but certainly better allround, could probably play perm forward if the need arised, and he was a lot younger than 28 when that deal happened.

Jolly can play forward as well, i'm pretty sure he was the highest goal kicking ruckman in 09

plus he read's teh play really well

floats in defense and help's the defense and floats forward as well

has amazing hands, is a one grab player, decent kick (what u would expect for a ruckman)

he isn't the best around the ground (better than sandi)

and he is in his prime and i forgot to add a bloody good TAP ruckman

wat else more could you want

he is definately more than just a good ruckman

 

[swanton]

Jolly for pick 14

http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,26164117-2722,00.html

oh please i also have two links from other website with direct quotes from paul roos that 14 is not enough

this article is pure speculation about being a done deal, who are the sources, a melbourne based players agent, who has no input into collingwood or sydney or Jolly

 

[duds0101]

It is certainly not offical until trade week starts. For all we know, Roos could be on the phone getting offered pick 9 right now. We just cannot tell. No mattter who your sources or sauces in a lot of cases here - it is not official yet.

Any newspaper The Hun, The Age, The Aust. All unreliable. I look forward to trade week though!

 

[SirJimi05]

Jolly for pick 14

http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,26164117-2722,00.html

So we should take the word of a player agent over the coach of the club who is the person who decides what Jolly is worth?

According to that article:

Jolly #14
Seaby #22

It will be an arse raping of Fremantle proportions if Sydney lose Jolly for Seaby and only get an upgrade of 8 spots.

 

[collingwill]

So we should take the word of a player agent over the coach of the club who is the person who decides what Jolly is worth?

According to that article:

Jolly #14
Seaby #22

It will be an arse raping of Fremantle proportions if Sydney lose Jolly for Seaby and only get an upgrade of 8 spots.

no you shouldnt, you should take my word for it. lol
dont believe any of that dribble, the clubs wouldn't have even discussed the matter yet, why would they show their cards so early in the game.

 

[collingwill]

if it is true and jolly did nominate collinwood as his prefered choice thats great, but super spewing now that he's contracted, we could have got sweet sweet revenge for roo's screwing us with davis, i could just see mick saying (pick 14 has been reserved for a talented young kid in the draft, we cant compromise that, so our second pick is really all we have to offer) sound familiar ? of course that wouldnt be very fair now would it swannies ?

 

[swanton]

if it is true and jolly did nominate collinwood as his prefered choice thats great, but super spewing now that he's contracted, we could have got sweet sweet revenge for roo's screwing us with davis, i could just see mick saying (pick 14 has been reserved for a talented young kid in the draft, we cant compromise that, so our second pick is really all we have to offer) sound familiar ? of course that wouldnt be very fair now would it swannies ?

haha lol

mick does hold a grudge doesn't he

still pissed of at Port about the stevens trade (lack there of)

but luck for us he is contracted and we wont get shafted

 

[whitelinefeva]

Mark this one down. Collingwood recruiters told to be on the lookout for second rounders, first round (#14) is already spent.

Don't know if there will be any steak knives to the deal but #14 is it so far...

 

[collingwill]

Jolly can play forward as well, i'm pretty sure he was the highest goal kicking ruckman in 09

plus he read's teh play really well

floats in defense and help's the defense and floats forward as well

has amazing hands, is a one grab player, decent kick (what u would expect for a ruckman)

he isn't the best around the ground (better than sandi)

and he is in his prime and i forgot to add a bloody good TAP ruckman

wat else more could you want

he is definately more than just a good ruckman

ottens could play permanant forward, theres a big difference, that increased his value to the cats who planned on using him that way i recall, if they just wanted a ruckman they wouldn"t have paid what they did.

 

[collingwill]

haha lol

mick does hold a grudge doesn't he

still pissed of at Port about the stevens trade (lack there of)

but luck for us he is contracted and we wont get shafted

how rapt are we with the stevens deal falling through, i feel for him though.

 

[spina#39]

3 way deal

Pies give: Nathan Brown, 14

Swans give: Jolly, Barlow

Blues give: 27, Fisher


Pies get: Jolly, 27

Swans get: 14, Fisher

Blues get: Nathan Brown, Barlow


Pies get Jolly and a pick, Swans get a tall to replace Bazza and a second pick in the top 20 and the Blues get two quality tall backmen.

It's a win-win-win.

 

[swanton]

ottens could play permanant forward, theres a big difference, that increased his value to the cats who planned on using him that way i recall, if they just wanted a ruckman they wouldn"t have paid what they did.

well we dont know about that,

pretty much their value would be very similar

and as has been said before in this thread when he was traded from richmond, he was very injury prone and still remians that way

on the other hand Jolly has a clean slaite, i think he has played 80+ game in a row

that's a rare thing to find a big bodied ruckamn who has no injury concerns

 

[swanton]

3 way deal

Pies give: Nathan Brown, 14

Swans give: Jolly, Barlow

Blues give: 27, Fisher


Pies get: Jolly, 27

Swans get: 14, Fisher

Blues get: Nathan Brown, Barlow


Pies get Jolly and a pick, Swans get a tall to replace Bazza and a second pick in the top 20 and the Blues get two quality tall backmen.

It's a win-win-win.

NOOOOO pies and sydney get shafted and carlton win big

 

[collingwill]

3 way deal

Pies give: Nathan Brown, 14

Swans give: Jolly, Barlow

Blues give: 27, Fisher


Pies get: Jolly, 27

Swans get: 14, Fisher

Blues get: Nathan Brown, Barlow


Pies get Jolly and a pick, Swans get a tall to replace Bazza and a second pick in the top 20 and the Blues get two quality tall backmen.

It's a win-win-win.

N. brown is going no where, word has it that WC put in a hefty offer for brown and it was refused, pick 7 most likely, browns our replacment for presty and their will be ZERO chance of him going anywhere.

 

[collingwill]

well we dont know about that,

pretty much their value would be very similar

and as has been said before in this thread when he was traded from richmond, he was very injury prone and still remians that way

on the other hand Jolly has a clean slaite, i think he has played 80+ game in a row

that's a rare thing to find a big bodied ruckamn who has no injury concerns

form kevin sheedys mouth (who would pay that for a ruckman, a ruckmans not worth that) dinosaur ruckman arnt worth what you think, nowhere near as much a key forward, a key forwards a marque player, get with it.

 

[spina#39]

NOOOOO pies and sydney get shafted and carlton win big

You get a first round pick and a fairly good player who can't be a regular in a good team, not a team full of spuds.

As for the Pies, they get Jolly an All - Australian regular and hitout king and a second round in return for a first round and a decent player who can't get a game.