Pies make Jolly offer

[Zahki]

I think people are undervaluing a first round pick in this draft. Remember that this is the last one before Gold Coast and Western Sydney come in and balls everything up, this might be the last opportunity to get some decent talent for a while. Rebuilding clubs like Sydney would need to get every pick int he top 25 they possibly could, and if giving up a player who will not be around next time they're ready for their shot at the flag is the price I would imagine Sydney would pay the price happily.

Short term pain for long term gain. The more talent Sydney squeeze out of this draft the better positioned they are to ride out the next few years of compromised drafts and slim pickings.

 

[swanton]

form kevin sheedys mouth (who would pay that for a ruckman, a ruckmans not worth that) dinosaur ruckman arnt worth what you think, nowhere near as much a key forward, a key forwards a marque player, get with it.

yeah but when did he say this

as you know the game has changed a lot in recent times

even from 3yrs ago there has been big changes to the way the game is played

 

[collingwill]

I think people are undervaluing a first round pick in this draft. Remember that this is the last one before Gold Coast and Western Sydney come in and balls everything up, this might be the last opportunity to get some decent talent for a while. Rebuilding clubs like Sydney would need to get every pick int he top 25 they possibly could, and if giving up a player who will not be around next time they're ready for their shot at the flag is the price I would imagine Sydney would pay the price happily.

Short term pain for long term gain. The more talent Sydney squeeze out of this draft the better positioned they are to ride out the next few years of compromised drafts and slim pickings.

exactly.

 

[swanton]

You get a first round pick and a fairly good player who can't be a regular in a good team, not a team full of spuds.

As for the Pies, they get Jolly an All - Australian regular and hitout king and a second round in return for a first round and a decent player who can't get a game.

but fisher is a spud, in a team where they are desperate for someone to be a second target to fev, he has done nothing and has been given sooooo many chances over the years to prove himself, and has shown nothing, other than playing a odd v good game

 

[SirJimi05]

3 way deal

Pies give: Nathan Brown, 14

Swans give: Jolly, Barlow

Blues give: 27, Fisher


Pies get: Jolly, 27

Swans get: 14, Fisher

Blues get: Nathan Brown, Barlow


Pies get Jolly and a pick, Swans get a tall to replace Bazza and a second pick in the top 20 and the Blues get two quality tall backmen.

It's a win-win-win.

Pick #27 + Fisher ===> Brown, Barlow.

Sure your not a Blues supporter?

 

[swanton]

I think people are undervaluing a first round pick in this draft. Remember that this is the last one before Gold Coast and Western Sydney come in and balls everything up, this might be the last opportunity to get some decent talent for a while. Rebuilding clubs like Sydney would need to get every pick int he top 25 they possibly could, and if giving up a player who will not be around next time they're ready for their shot at the flag is the price I would imagine Sydney would pay the price happily.

Short term pain for long term gain. The more talent Sydney squeeze out of this draft the better positioned they are to ride out the next few years of compromised drafts and slim pickings.

sydney have no problem in trading Jolly, but they will hold out for the best deal for sydney.

i think if we can get a good prospective player aswell as 14 then they will happily grant jolly's wishes to back home

can't blame sydney for wanting to get the best deal

 

[spina#39]

Pick #27 + Fisher ===> Brown, Barlow.

Sure your not a Blues supporter?

Nup.

It can be changed to factor in pick 43 as well.

 

[collingwill]

yeah but when did he say this

as you know the game has changed a lot in recent times

even from 3yrs ago there has been big changes to the way the game is played

he said it years ago, 5yrs maybe, the game has changed but not all that much concerning ruckmens importance over that time. IMO

 

[SirJimi05]

Short term pain for long term gain. The more talent Sydney squeeze out of this draft the better positioned they are to ride out the next few years of compromised drafts and slim pickings.

Exactly. So why would they just settle for pick #14 which is a pretty average pick in an ordinary draft?

 

[SirJimi05]

Nup.

It can be changed to factor in pick 43 as well.

Dude, Fisher is a spud. The Blues would need to offload #11 + Fisher just go get Brown.

 

[swanton]

he said it years ago, 5yrs maybe, the game has changed but not all that much concerning ruckmens importance over that time. IMO

i think it has 5 yrs ago what you exoected for a ruckman was to tap the ball, gone in defence to add a big body for the long bombs and a target in the forward line

but now they are expected read the play both min defense and attack, they must have a good kick on them, more is expected when they go up forward, and they must have stamina to get around the ground.

dean cox really started this trend in 04/05 but that sjust my opinion

 

[DeadlyAkkuret]

Short term pain for long term gain. The more talent Sydney squeeze out of this draft the better positioned they are to ride out the next few years of compromised drafts and slim pickings.

The more we squeeze out of Collingwood the better positioned we are. You'll notice it's mostly Collingwood fans who think pick 14 alone is ample, the majority of neutrals can see that Sydney is getting ripped off big time and I suspect you know that.

 

[SirJimi05]

he said it years ago, 5yrs maybe, the game has changed but not all that much concerning ruckmens importance over that time. IMO

How did Essendon fair when they tried playing NLM and Lucas in the ruck? A good ruckman is possibly the most important commodity in football. Why do you think they fetch so much at the trade table? Do you think clubs pay by the kilo or something?

 

[SirJimi05]

The more we squeeze out of Collingwood the better positioned we are. You'll notice it's mostly Collingwood fans who think pick 14 alone is ample, the majority of neutrals can see that Sydney is getting ripped off big time and I suspect you know that.

In all fairness i reckon even most Collingwood supporters woulod acknowledge that more than pick #14 is needed.

 

[collingwill]

i think it has 5 yrs ago what you exoected for a ruckman was to tap the ball, gone in defence to add a big body for the long bombs and a target in the forward line

but now they are expected read the play both min defense and attack, they must have a good kick on them, more is expected when they go up forward, and they must have stamina to get around the ground.

dean cox really started this trend in 04/05 but that sjust my opinion

truth is though that we (and dont laugh) couldve easily won 3 flags in the last 7 yrs with the worst ruck line up on the planet, arnold out of different strokes has more talent as a ruckman then fraser, 02 we allmost pinched the unpinchable flag, lost by 8 points, 03 we were favourites with the bookies and i still believe we were a better team than brisbane who we beat comfortably in the Qually, rocca being suspended had a big impact on that lose, 07 we were less than a kick away from Geelong in the prelim, they then went on to destroy port in the final, all from a team who has had very few AA players and no ruckmen, add to that a finals spot last year and a prelim spot this year, makes me wonder just how important ruckmen are.

 

[Zahki]

Exactly. So why would they just settle for pick #14 which is a pretty average pick in an ordinary draft?

Sources say that picks up to around 25 are very good options, no worse than any other year. After that it thins out rapidly. For pick 14 I think the people on the Pie board were eyeing off Panos, who looks like an excellent forward option.

I'm just saying that picks in this draft are more valuable than usual, especially within the first 25.

I dunno of any club that would offer a lower pick anyway. I think Hawthorn have invested too much time and effort getting Burgoyne to just give up on him, especially since they're his preferred destination.

For what it's worth I think it'll be 14 + player as well, but I don't think it'll be someone in our best 22.

 

[DeadlyAkkuret]

In all fairness i reckon even most Collingwood supporters woulod acknowledge that more than pick #14 is needed.

I said it's mostly Collingwood fans, not most Collingwood fans. I'd like to think that the majority would be fair-minded people and know something about the value of a top 4 ruckman, but it's astonishing how many people think he's basically on the decline and only has 2 good years left.

 

[SirJimi05]

truth is though that we (and dont laugh) couldv"e easily won 3 flags in the last 7 yrs with the worst ruck line up on the planet, arnold out of different strokes has more talent as a ruckman then fraser, 02 we allmost pinched the unpinchable flag, lost by 8 points, 03 we were favourites with the bokkies and i still believe we were a better team than brisbane who we beat comfortably in the Qually, rocca being suspended had a big impact on that lose, 07 we were less than a kick away from Geelong in the prelim, they then went on to destroy port in the final, all from a team who has had very few AA players and no ruckmen.

You are very good at bringing things up that actually go against the argument you are putting forward. First you brought Ottens into the debate thinking that his trade worth would somehow justify your opinion on Jolly and now this.

The point you raise is the perfect example of how important a good ruckman is. If you had a Jolly back then you most likely would have won a flag. You went close a couple of times, imagine what could have been. You've juts highlighted how important a good ruckman is.

 

[swanton]

truth is though that we (and dont laugh) couldve easily won 3 flags in the last 7 yrs with the worst ruck line up on the planet, arnold out of different strokes has more talent as a ruckman then fraser, 02 we allmost pinched the unpinchable flag, lost by 8 points, 03 we were favourites with the bookies and i still believe we were a better team than brisbane who we beat comfortably in the Qually, rocca being suspended had a big impact on that lose, 07 we were less than a kick away from Geelong in the prelim, they then went on to destroy port in the final, all from a team who has had very few AA players and no ruckmen, add to that a finals spot last year and a prelim spot this year, makes me wonder just how important ruckmen are.

most of the example's you have given are over 5 years ago

who did u have rucking in 07??

and according to the people that matter, they think that there is a premium for ruckman

just look at syndey and collingwood, we gave up pick 14 and 15 respectively for unknowns, and jolly was instumental in our premiership success.

think MM is despertely after a premiership with only two years left and he might be getting sick of fraser breaking down and not helping out wood

 

[SirJimi05]

Katie rumour has it that a deal has been struck for:

Seaby ===> pick #22.

Once again highlights how highly clubs rate ruckman if this spud can fetch #22.

If Seaby is worth #22 IN THE CURRENT MARKET PLACE what would that make Jolly worth, still pick #14?

 

[collingwill]

You are very good at bringing things up that actually go against the argument you are putting forward. First you brought Ottens into the debate thinking that his trade worth would somehow justify your opinion on Jolly and now this.

The point you raise is the perfect example of how important a good ruckman is. If you had a Jolly back then you most likely would have won a flag. You went close a couple of times, imagine what could have been. You've juts highlighted how important a good ruckman is.

as i said, ottens was recruited as a forward, theres a big difference in trade value, he was younger and much more versatile, sure he had a lean time for a while at the tiges but he wasnt happy there and blind freddy could see how much talent he had, so how does me bringing up ottens devalue my opinion ? and your other point about our flag failures, maybe your right, if we had a quality ruckman we may have won one, but on the same token if we had a quality forward we would have won, if we had another quality midfielder we would have won, if we had a gun backman we may have won, so your points logic no logic to me.

 

[collingwill]

Katie rumour has it that a deal has been struck for:

Seaby ===> pick #22.

Once again highlights how highly clubs rate ruckman if this spud can fetch #22.

If Seaby is worth #22 IN THE CURRENT MARKET PLACE what would that make Jolly worth, still pick #14?

rumour dude, just a rumour, theres a rumour in the Australian that jolly will go to the pies for pick 14, or isnt that rumour true ? i guess your rumour is though.

 

[spina#39]

Katie rumour has it that a deal has been struck for:

Seaby ===> pick #22.

Once again highlights how highly clubs rate ruckman if this spud can fetch #22.

If Seaby is worth #22 IN THE CURRENT MARKET PLACE what would that make Jolly worth, still pick #14?

Seaby is rubbish.

In order it goes.

Jolly
Daylight
10 million light years
Maffra Under 12D's
A years worth of daylight savings
Seaby

 

[SirJimi05]

rumour dude, just a rumour, theres a rumour in the Australian that jolly will go to the pies for pick 14, or isnt that rumour true ? i guess your rumour is though.

My understanding is that both parties have agreed to the trade.

In the case of the Jolly rumour it was just a player manager speculating and there were direct quotes from the coach of Sydney refuted what this manager had said.

Massive difference.

Anyway, just answer hypothetically. If the deal for Seaby ===> pick #22 goes through as suspected what value does Jolly hold at the trade table?

 

[collingwill]

most of the example's you have given are over 5 years ago

who did u have rucking in 07??

and according to the people that matter, they think that there is a premium for ruckman

just look at syndey and collingwood, we gave up pick 14 and 15 respectively for unknowns, and jolly was instumental in our premiership success.

think MM is despertely after a premiership with only two years left and he might be getting sick of fraser breaking down and not helping out wood

i cant remember if fraser played in that game, i think it was that bean pole we offloaded, cant remember his name lol, and bryan, ruckmen are valuble, but only if you need one, we paid through the nose for wood and IMO he's a handy prospect, so why would we pay through the nose for jolly, i believe we need another ruckman, but if its more than pick 14 for jolly id rather offer the cats a second rounder for there second string ruckman, cant remember his name either, im getting tired