Pies players lose confidence in Cloke

[BEEG]

Can we appreciate for one second the photo the HUN used.

Swanny is 100% about to slip Trav some tongue.

New display pic its brilliant

 

[Chilli Con Incarnate]

Gee people are sensitive about this.

I think Trav has a tough gig, but I would be more than happy to give him a week in the magoos, because honestly, that's all it would take.

He'd kick about 20 on some spud and remember how to play. Yes the media would be all over it, but he is so far above VFL level that as soon as he ran out there he'd dominate.

We should have done this with Dawes in 2012 and we left it too late and it bit us on the arse. Pull the trigger now and he'll be up and about for the run home.

It's the oldest trick in the book and would work wonders for a confidence player like Trav.

 

[MagpieBat]

Gee people are sensitive about this.

I think Trav has a tough gig, but I would be more than happy to give him a week in the magoos, because honestly, that's all it would take.

He'd kick about 20 on some spud and remember how to play. Yes the media would be all over it, but he is so far above VFL level that as soon as he ran out there he'd dominate.

We should have done this with Dawes in 2012 and we left it too late and it bit us on the arse. Pull the trigger now and he'll be up and about for the run home.

It's the oldest trick in the book and would work wonders for a confidence player like Trav.

Just where, pray tell, do you propose he play right "now"? The VFL side has (another) bye because of the state rep game...

 

[mattys123]

Coming into this season if I'd told you that Reid wouldn't have played a game and Cloke had only kicked 10 goals in 9 games most would say we would be 4-5 at absolute best after 10 rounds (9 games).

I see the "Cloke issue" as a positive, he will turn his form around, he's too bloody good not to, and once Reid gets back and maybe Patty Karnezis slides into that forward line too, we will suddenly have one of the most powerful forward lines in the AFL.

No need to panic, yet.

 

[Unknown Identity]

Coming into this season if I'd told you that Reid wouldn't have played a game and Cloke had only kicked 10 goals in 9 games most would say we would be 4-5 at absolute best after 10 rounds (9 games).

I see the "Cloke issue" as a positive, he will turn his form around, he's too bloody good not to, and once Reid gets back and maybe Patty Karnezis slides into that forward line too, we will suddenly have one of the most powerful forward lines in the AFL.

No need to panic, yet.

A thousand times this.

We have yet to see what our forward line will look like by years end.

I dare say Reid will play out of the goal square obviously depending on the form of Keefe down back with Brown out. Cloke and White will play a little higher with Karnezis working in between.

Throw Elliott in the mix, Blair and even Fasolo at times and we truly will have an unpredictable forward line, something we haven't had for quite sometime.

 

[rose jam]

There is too much focus on Cloke by media and supporters when our deficiencies are around running half forwards who are capable of kicking goals and our clearances.

 

[ipswichpies]

I think we need to act on Trav now,I don,t think the club can afford to wait for Reid,s return Travis could be completely shot by then.As Vicky Park and other,s say and correctly 10+ goalkicker,s a week is what we should be aiming for but we must get more from our key forwards.

I am also in agreement with That,s Gold on giving Clokey a 5 minute run a qtr in the ruck,not the centre bounces but around the ground and especially up forward I always thought he was a better option than Dawes was as a 2nd ruck.

I also agree we should bring Karnezis in now he does kick straight although so did Lynch before he came here but Karnezis needs to come in in a lower pressure game so he can build his fitness up steadily he could really be an important inclusion IMO.

I said in another post that Grundy needs a rest atm Witts is ahead of him it won,t stay that way but he is going better atm.Now is a good time to change a few things some of the younger player are starting to look really tired but they have done a fantastic job so far.

Getting back to Trav he is the biggest dilemma we face at the moment Reid back and Cloke in form we are a chance at top 4 I don,t think the top 4 is set in stone yet I think the Hawks and Cats are vulnerable and I am not so sure Freo are such good things as people think.
A few injuries and anyone can go down the gurgler Hawthorn are starting to cop a few injuries and they do not look so invincible as they did just a few weeks ago Sydney and Port on the other hand are looking better by the week but injuries can screw them too just lose the wrong player to injury and it makes it hard as we are finding out with Reid.

 

[DaVe86]

matty said it best above.

No need for panic at the moment. Our forward line is fine. It's time for Witts to move out and bring in Karnezis (on the assumption he is fit). Obviously Reid will take that spot when fit as well.

Then Jessie White goes back to playing as the 3rd tall which even Buckley admitted earlier in the season is his best position.


For mine, we had 13 individual goal kickers on the weekend. That's a huge positive. Therefore I wouldn't go messing with the structure too much. Especially Cloke who is a spine player.

I think our bigger issue lies in the midfield where we have been smashed 2 weeks straight from clearances. Our run from defence has also been horrible. When we have won through the middle, our footskills have been deplorable.

If we win clearances and hit targets, our forwards will start firing too.

With St.Kilda and Melbourne ahead, I'd leave Cloke in the side.

 

[Big Bryza]

They didn't kick it to him on Saturday because he didn't want the ball. He barely made a lead all night. His confidence is low which is why he's failing to make an impact. There's one bloke that can get him out of this slump and that's himself. He's a star and he needs to start acting like one again.

 

[Big Bryza]

Well the really tricky question at the moment is who exactly is even in our forward line.
Can't get much structure and momentum going when we don't really even have one.
Goldy has been moved back the past two weeks.
Cloke, Elliot, White are the only constant forwards, but even Elliot is playing all over the ground.
So our only two stay at home forwards have gone missing.
No consistency.
Definitely need to bring in Karnezis and let him settle in to a position.
I would bring Martin in as well.
Hopefully get Reid back soon too.
That will make a big difference.
Then Cloke becomes the swing man

We get these 3 boys in and forward line looks unbelievably good. It's the difference between top 4 or finishing 5-8 again. We have a very good defence, a very good midfield and potentially a damn good forward line when you add these 3 lads to it.

 

[Manic Magpie]

Nice to see David Cloke getting in his two cents worth, blaming the delivery to his son rather than Travis himself. Cloke senior has always been such a positive influence on his boy and can be counted on to act in the best interests of the club.

 

[jmac70]

Cloke has had a poor start to the year. No arguement there. What I don't understand is why White is getting off the hook with posters. He has been average at best and yet seems to avoid attention.

 

[Manic Magpie]

Cloke has had a poor start to the year. No arguement there. What I don't understand is why White is getting off the hook with posters. He has been average at best and yet seems to avoid attention.

Agreed. I have been critical of White, but too many posters prefer to think of him as an improvement on 'you-know-who'! I thought White would be a good player for us, but he has largely been a big disappointment.

 

[jmac70]

Agreed. I have been critical of White, but too many posters prefer to think of him as an improvement on 'you-know-who'! I thought White would be a good player for us, but he has largely been a big disappointment.

Unfortunately he has. I was pretty critical of him when we drafted him but like everyone hoped he could reach his potential. I haven't given up hope on him but with the club favouring two rucks it is difficult to see him retain a spot over Reid. We need to get him into the game somehow but I would be loath to do it at the expense of Witts.

 

[loki04]

Gee people are sensitive about this.

I think Trav has a tough gig, but I would be more than happy to give him a week in the magoos, because honestly, that's all it would take.

He'd kick about 20 on some spud and remember how to play. Yes the media would be all over it, but he is so far above VFL level that as soon as he ran out there he'd dominate.

We should have done this with Dawes in 2012 and we left it too late and it bit us on the arse. Pull the trigger now and he'll be up and about for the run home.

It's the oldest trick in the book and would work wonders for a confidence player like Trav.

I also agree a week in the magoos would see him kick a bag and restore some confidence and also send a msg no one is un-droppable.

 

[morgoth]

Reading comments on our seconds, there were numerous comments that we are obviously working on lowering our eyes and hitting the lead up target. Maybe we are trying to do the same in the AFL? Would make sense!

Once we start doing this on a consistent basis, it will spread the defence, stop them zoning on Trav and free him up. We kick to Cloke too often IMO as he has 2 or 3 guys on him. Share the love and Trav will reap the benefits. The problem is we can't hit the lead up target!

 

[forwardflanker]

Has one final week to turn things around or should be dropped until he finds form. At the moment the players have no desire to kick to him, making him a liability.

.

A better explanation would be that the coaching staff in the preseason felt that we were one dimensional in our forward thrusts and have adjusted the gameplan accordingly. Cloke is so important to our forward set up that he'd be worth a game even if he were getting 0 disposals every week.

 

[tehnoodnub]

A better explanation would be that the coaching staff in the preseason felt that we were one dimensional in our forward thrusts and have adjusted the gameplan accordingly. Cloke is so to our forward set up that he'd be worth a game even if he were getting 0 disposals every week.

That's all it is.

 

[jonbe54]

Don't believe the losing confidence rubbish, there have been plenty of hints from the club that they felt we were far too one dimensional last year. If the opposition want to drop anchor around Cloke what is more sensible than to make your entries elsewhere? That being said he doesn't appear all that happy to be in the position of almost a dummy forward, even when the ball is kicked to him he looks unsure of himself.

Perhaps it would be better to give him a roaming license and simply drag a man upfield for part of the game.

 

[didaksrightfoot]

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/a...-to-travis-cloke/story-fni5f0at-1226930979149

Has one final week to turn things around or should be dropped until he finds form. At the moment the players have no desire to kick to him, making him a liability.

Bucks should have made the tough call weeks ago, now it's gathering momentum.
For the good of the club it's now or never for Cloke.

I'm not sure where you got from that article that "Pies players lose confidence in Cloke"?
The fact that we are not kicking to him as much is a positive for the club - because it shows that others are presenting themselves as targets - and the problem in the past has been that we are too cloke-focused, so the more we spread out the better for the team.

His form is still horrible - but he did have two grabs in the last quarter, although one was a free, and the other was a somewhat lucky kick straight to his chest. He also fumbled a bit, but also had a few that went well over his head. On the positive note, he was pushing up the ground, and applied a bit of pressure in the last quarter when the Eagles had the ball in the midfield.

A few weeks ago, I was very much against the concept of sending him back to the two's.
That is probably still my prevailing view, given that even when he's not providing much himself, he is still being manned up by the oppositions key defender, and will hopefully play himself back into form soon - and I think the next few weeks may be the ideal time for this. Also, until Reid is available, I don't see anyone else who can play his role - and Ried may be required in the backline when he returns.

But as his performances continue to be poor, I would not be opposed to the clubs sending him back to the VFL for a couple of weeks to see if that can give him some confidence back, and to see how the team goes without him.

 

[Magpie Mason]

You don't pay someone 800k to be a decoy.

Exactly. No room these days for players not to make an impact.
I don't think he is reading the game well enough, and he is not putting himself in position to receive the ball. Also his holding on game, means players will always kick to a contest,where as White, Witts and the others find room.

 

[Magpie Mason]

Perhaps Cloke to the backline?

if we are going down that path, he needs to learn it in the twos like. Fas did

 

[Magpie Mason]

Rubbish thread.

Last year everyone was whinging it was "Cloke or bust". Now when we have 13 goalkickers people are still complaining about it.

The fact that he was only the target 3 times in fact proves that he didn't have a terrible game seeing as he scored from 2 of these. All it shows is he wasn't in the play.

You then went and quoted all the players that were targets 4 times instead of 3. Huge difference there.

Isn't the whole point of a good forward line to have multiple options that are capable of scoring?

Agree. good to have multiples, but would be better if our highest paid forward contributed on the scoreboard, and each week threatened to be a game changer, like Clokey is capable of. We want the excitement of a big bloke taking a pack mark in the dying stages and kicking a goal from the boundary. At the moment, he can't hold them, and we hold our breath when he kicks for goal.

 

[ottoman]

Agree. good to have multiples, but would be better if our highest paid forward contributed on the scoreboard, and each week threatened to be a game changer, like Clokey is capable of. We want the excitement of a big bloke taking a pack mark in the dying stages and kicking a goal from the boundary. At the moment, he can't hold them, and we hold our breath when he kicks for goal.

I have become so cynical that I don't even hold my breath any more. Just resigned to the fact that he will more than likely miss.

 

[Optimax]

We are trying to spread the load just like the hawks and franklin last year.

At times last year we were too cloke centric which left him one out against two or three, his form isn't great this year but this is just more proof of idiots saying a correlation is proof of causation (aka using stats and making a bogus argument)!