List Mgmt. 'Play hardball': Mitch Robinson urges the Suns to re-draft Jack Martin

[Jiggyman]

Sort of stuck in the worst spot here. They refused to trade him for what they considered under his value, but now they will lose him for nothing unless they redraft him, which he can name his own price(Can someone confirm?)

My understanding is that GC wouldn't have even used the picks Carlton were offering. If so, what was there to lose in letting him walk?

 

[1970crow]

GC are on a no win situation here.
And the club that takes Martin in the PSD will be significantly overpaying salary for a guy playing in the NEAFL who's done nothing.

This has been a shit storm that only poorly run clubs have been involved with.

Look juss, cannot argue that you guys are amazing, but compared to you right now, there’s probably 14 clubs that could be described as, “poorly run”, at least in a footy dept sense. That benchmark is the norm, you, presently, are one of the exceptions. Martin can definitely play and it’s not outlandish to wonder whether the Gold Coast culture got the best out of him. I’d have him in a heartbeat, but I’m a supporter of probably the most, “poorly run“ club in the league.

 

[iBeng]

My understanding is that GC wouldn't have even used the picks Carlton were offering. If so, what was there to lose in letting him walk?

Could have on traded those picks for future picks. Still worth more than getting nothing for a player youve invested 6 years into.

 

[Jiggyman]

Could have on traded those picks for future picks. Still worth more than getting nothing for a player youve invested 6 years into.

I'm not so sure it was that simple, but point taken.

 

[iBeng]

I'm not sure it was so simple, but point taken.

Possibly not, depends if they bothered to inquire with other clubs about packaging up the picks for future picks...Possibly clubs after academy picks this year would have been keen to collect some. Also depends on how accurate the actual offer from Carlton was reported.

 

[Damon_3388]

Imagine paying 800k or whatever it is per year to pay someone to be on the list and not have them around the club.

Every 18 year old around the Country will be praying not to be Drafted to the Suns if they did that.

More like they'd be praying they could be drafted by the Suns, no matter their ability. Free $800K to live on the Gold Coast and do nothing, sounds like heaven to most late teens/early 20s.

 

[Damon_3388]

Hope you feel the same way at the end of the year if Grundy , Moore , pendles , De Goey have not signed

Yes, absolutely, 150%. No club bias involved. The current AFL trade and free agency system is a half-arsed farce.

If players leave, it means you haven't done enough to keep them. End of. No fault, no blame, no "neh-neh" to your list manager or "couldn't get a deal done", or any other bullshits excuses. If you lose the player, you lose the player. Let the free list spot(s) and cap space be your 'compensation', use them on other players, re-load, move on. That's how the system should work.

It's a business. Treat it like one. This is the one thing we should copy from American sports, which we puzzlingly don't.

 

[CholEstrol]

Some interesting comments from Mitch Robinson. I agree, Gold Coast should make a stand otherwise they will continue to be pilferred.

'Play hardball': Mitch Robinson urges the Suns to re-draft Jack Martin

Although he did say he wouldn't like it were it done to him...

www.theroar.com.au

I don't agree with you or Mitch on this one. Trying to resolve the pilfering by taking a hard line is not going to achieve the culture required to be contenders.
Particularly in Jack's case because he's been in the reserves. If you're not going to make a player a permanent part of the senior squad, and he wants a fresh start at another club of choice, you facilitate it and get the best deal you can.
The way successful teams retain is get buy in from a group of young players in that if they stick together and are happy to play for unders, that's the best recipe for becoming a contender. Once the team gets success, any unders they've played for can be topped up in other ways.
Granted we'd had success at the time, but four players in a similar position to Jack got to their clubs of choice with little or no fuss. Lloyd, Miles, CEllis, Butler.
Not saying all the Tiger faithful were happy with us taking the low ground to a degree, but it was a good result for our expats.

 

[Robertio]

Disgusting way to talk about a great servant of your club. He would have made an excellent captain through this rebuild if your club had bothered to help him instead of cutting him at the first chance they could. You reap what you sow.

Think i got sucked in here.

 

[Kwality]

The AFL should have stepped in on this one and forced a mediation (and still should rather than letting the dick-swinging contest turn the draft into a shambles).

Disagree, Jacks management have made his bed ... its up to them to fix it, not the clubs or the AFL. Let it play out.

 

[Kwality]

If the Suns re-draft Martin and he really doesn’t want to be there then he doesn’t have to sign the contract. Sure it means a year out of football but he can take a stand too.

& after 12 months out what will any club pay him
versus
play out the year to prove he is worth big bucks ( he is capable)

 

[Clems Knee]

If Martin nominated for the preseason draft, the Suns would be totally correct to pick him up again, as long as they can meet the terms set. They have the first pick, and Martin is likely the best player available. It’s not being vindictive to the player at all. They know him well so he isn’t a risk, and would welcome him back.

If Martin doesn’t want to go to the Suns, he now has another option which is to nominate for the draft along with the 18 year olds. He can refuse to do a medical or interview with all teams bar Carlton and set a price on his head that is tailor-made to what Carlton can afford. There would be a very small chance that another club would pick him before Carlton at pick 9, but a larger chance that a club would take a risk before pick 43. Carlton has the option of trading to a pick in the 20s.

But Carlton fans shouldn’t be whinging and blaming the Gold Coast for using the rules and applying them as they see fit. Their team failed to get a trade completed with the wooden spooner. This was always an option. Martin nominating in the full draft will cost Carlton a pick, and so it should.

 

[btdg]

Disagree, Jacks management have made his bed ... its up to them to fix it, not the clubs or the AFL. Let it play out.

But how do they fix it? The trade period is over...

Just letting it play out sets up a horrendous PSD debacle. Either Gold Coast redraft a player who doesn't want to be there... or Melbourne do the smart thing and poach him, or he slides to Carlton and sets a horrific precendent for other OOC players (and probably forces a change to the AFL's rule for non-free agents

 

[Marc_Remillard]

So Carlton are prepared to pay Martin $800k a year but they weren't prepared to include 1 first round draft pick in a trade.

Riiiiight

 

[La Dispute]

So Carlton are prepared to pay Martin $800k a year but they weren't prepared to include 1 first round draft pick in a trade.

Riiiiight

You realise we’re paying him 800k because we didn’t part with any draft picks, right?

 

[Kwality]

You realise we’re paying him 800k because we didn’t part with any draft picks, right?

Both parties knew the consequences .... they did not get a deal done, wear it.
The Eagles didnt get Tim Kelly done in 2018, paid the price in 2019.

 

[Marc_Remillard]

You realise we’re paying him 800k because we didn’t part with any draft picks, right?

So? If the club thinks he is worth $800k per season but only offers a 2nd and a 3rd rounder that's pretty pathetic.

 

[La Dispute]

So? If the club thinks he is worth $800k per season but only offers a 2nd and a 3rd rounder that's pretty pathetic.

The club was going to pay him 600k, but the deal went into overtime and he will now get extra. The club doesn’t value him at 800k pa, but if they want to sign him (by virtue of outpricing Melbourne in the PSD) that’s what he will get. As long as we can fit him within the cap there’s no real issue paying him above his true value for a couple of seasons.

There will always be some discrepancy between the value of a players contract and their draft pick value. Gold Coast are currently paying a guy who’s worth a late second rounder 700k, and each deal is constructed on a case by case basis.

 

[Marc_Remillard]

The club was going to pay him 600k, but the deal went into overtime and he will now get extra. The club doesn’t value him at 800k pa, but if they want to sign him (by virtue of outpricing Melbourne in the PSD) that’s what he will get. As long as we can fit him within the cap there’s no real issue paying him above his true value for a couple of seasons.

There will always be some discrepancy between the value of a players contract and their draft pick value. Gold Coast are currently paying a guy who’s worth a late second rounder 700k, and each deal is constructed on a case by case basis.

It's still pathetic regardless of any wall of text you come up with

 

[RAPPA]

Lol best of luck to GC if they pick him up in the pre-season and pay his price. The stupidity in taking a stand to retain a player whom they dropped during the season, notwithstanding he was playing good enough footy to retain his spot.

 

[_Rake_]

He was out of contract. Why wasn't he just signed by a club in October?

 

[mike123]

If Gold Coast plan to re draft him in the PSD why doesn’t Martin just nominate for the national draft instead?

 

[mike123]

Here's a comparison between josh caddy and and jack martin when they were traded. Caddy was the same age when he was traded as martin is now which makes this comparison very easy. Caddy went for pick 24. I'd love for someone to explain how martin is worth more.

View attachment 777269

I’m not sure how a bunch of meaningless numbers proves your point.

 

[ParapMarkets]

My understanding is that GC wouldn't have even used the picks Carlton were offering. If so, what was there to lose in letting him walk?

As per what the GC list manager stated, Carlton’s offer equaled pick 12 in points. Next years draft has a lot of academy/father son prospects, there will be a lot of teams looking to trade down for points. They could have easily used those picks and got themselves a quality pick in return.

GC were in a position where they felt they could make a stand, but every other team would have taken that deal. They demanded a top 10 draft pick for a player who finished the season in the reserves.

Here’s a question though: Have GC ever lost players for unders (that didn’t have obvious issues)? They took Hawthorn to the cleaners on O’Meara, have they actually ever lost anyone of note for unders to make this Martin stance so necessary? Sure, Freo took them to the cleaners when trading in Weller but in terms of losing quality players cheaply who has there been?

They’ve gambled away picks (and lost) and they have given away good players for free. But where have they lost good players for unders recently?

 

[ParapMarkets]

If Gold Coast plan to re draft him in the PSD why doesn’t Martin just nominate for the national draft instead?

I can’t see GC re-drafting him. They really need to concentrate on building a culture where players want to stay, concentrate on the players who want to stay, Martin has given them 7 years.

It’s a reality for all poorly performing teams that players will want to leave if they can’t see a light at the end of the tunnel. Carlton lost a host of players in 2015 for this exact reason and will again if this rebuild falters. I can’t see Cripps staying (for example) if we are as bad as we are now in 2 years time.

Sure, there are extra difficulties operating in a non-AFL state, but the problems of player retention in poorly performing teams aren’t limited to GC. GWS seems to have got a lot right in this regard and really haven’t lost many players they didn’t want to lose.