Political Discussion part #2 - Let’s go out for 10 Big Macs at the Engadine Maccas!!

[1970crow]

I don't see what the big deal is.

If Chalmers wants to run, let him... even if he does get defeated by Albo.

It's healthy to have competition.

I don't see why the opponents need to be told to drop out before the vote... otherwise why even bother with the vote.

Also, as a leader you are stupid to exclude quality from your front bench because they are your best competition... unless you are an Abbott who us just full on destructive.

Possibly 2 separate reasons. The first is that by suggesting that you might run, if you were any chance to garner decent support you can negotiate a higher level ministry be then withdrawing. Second is that the parliamentary wing don't trust or want the rank and file to have a say. If they come up with a different leader than what the numbers in the parliamentary wing want, then they will find themselves in a bit of a pickle.

 

[Bicks]

Because too many of the public disliked Shorten.

It was the main factor.

They even preferred a PM who speaks to us like we are in primary school...

I think Bowen's total arrogance and expecting people to accept what was their No.1 Election Policy "Climate Change/45% Renewables by 2030" without even being prepared to run a ball park costing number up the flagpole were far bigger red flags to voters, that's taking the Australian public for morons.
John Howard was never popular in the Leader Polls either.

 

[Bicks]

Looks like it's been bubbling away under the surface for a while according to Canberra Political writer for New Daily...

 

[StonesThrow]

Because too many of the public disliked Shorten.

It was the main factor.

They even preferred a PM who speaks to us like we are in primary school...

The main reason was the effective scare campaign by many different stakeholders against some of their policies. Shorten didn't help though.

 

[Bicks]

PMSL, humorous Joe Aston article in the Fin Review where he absolutely cooks Alex Turnbull.

https://www.afr.com/rear-window/nobody-home-at-alex-turnbull-s-singapore-hedge-fund-20190522-p51q2c

Nobody home at Alex Turnbull's Singapore hedge fund

And we return now to failed anti-Liberal warrior Alex Turnbull – fitting, given he’s just returned to Twitter after a brief, post-election interregnum.

No bit actor in Australian politics has made a greater tool of themselves in recent months than the immediate past prime minister’s eldest child. Second is daylight, while banished NSW premier turned basketball executive turned Sky News waffler turned failed Bennelong candidate turned Senate parachutist turned Bill Shorten’s bus captain, Kristina Keneally, takes the bronze.

 

[Kane McGoodwin]

The main reason was the effective scare campaign by many different stakeholders against some of their policies. Shorten didn't help though.

Both sides use scare campaigns every election.

This wasn't new.

It's up to the leaders to sell their policies to the public despite scaremongering from the other side.

 

[Dixie Normous]

Okay, so i finally found out what the Engadine McDonalds thing is.

Righto.

Scat Morrison

 

[1970crow]

I think Bowen's total arrogance and expecting people to accept what was their No.1 Election Policy "Climate Change/45% Renewables by 2030" without even being prepared to run a ball park costing number up the flagpole were far bigger red flags to voters, that's taking the Australian public for morons.
John Howard was never popular in the Leader Polls either.

I reckon that had they just gone with a policy that had us complying with the Paris Agreement with some added waffle about investing in Australian business to go further as an aspirational goal would have seen them win the election. That and distancing themselves from the implication that they would prefer to leave coal in the ground rather than export it to other countries.

 

[Vader]

Possibly 2 separate reasons. The first is that by suggesting that you might run, if you were any chance to garner decent support you can negotiate a higher level ministry be then withdrawing. Second is that the parliamentary wing don't trust or want the rank and file to have a say. If they come up with a different leader than what the numbers in the parliamentary wing want, then they will find themselves in a bit of a pickle.

That's exactly what happened last time. The rank & file members voted for Albanese. The parliamentary members wanted Shorten.

 

[Elite Crow]

That's exactly what happened last time. The rank & file members voted for Albanese. The parliamentary members wanted Shorten.

You doing ok Vader?

 

[1970crow]

That's exactly what happened last time. The rank & file members voted for Albanese. The parliamentary members wanted Shorten.

Exactly, the last thing the elected want is to have to take into account what the rank and file think. After going against them last time they’d be in an awful spot if the members threw up someone without heavy factional support.

 

[StonesThrow]

Both sides use scare campaigns every election.

This wasn't new.

It's up to the leaders to sell their policies to the public despite scaremongering from the other side.

I think you're crazy if you think the scale was even remotely close this time around. The liberals had themselves, Clive Palmer, one nation, news corp and big industry pumping out false and sometimes even ridiculous claims.

I don't know how many of you actually interact with 'the working class'. I work in a factory and I can tell you this campaign was very effective at scaremongering. I had co workers claim to me that they wouldn't be able to use their ute, their rent would go up and their house value would drop significantly (northern suburbs has been declining for nearly 10 years). Not to mention that climate policy will 'destroy' the economy or take a 'sledgehammer' to it. I had Clive Palmer on my facebook feed every single day with people who could barely string a sentence together.

This is in a Labor stronghold so I'm not sure if there was a swing or not. I do know one guy who despite saying most of these things still said he would vote Labor. I didn't even know how to respond to that.

 

[Elite Crow]

I think you're crazy if you think the scale was even remotely close this time around. The liberals had themselves, Clive Palmer, one nation, news corp and big industry pumping out false and sometimes even ridiculous claims.

I don't know how many of you actually interact with 'the working class'. I work in a factory and I can tell you this campaign was very effective at scaremongering. I had co workers claim to me that they wouldn't be able to use their ute, their rent would go up and their house value would drop significantly (northern suburbs has been declining for nearly 10 years). Not to mention that climate policy will 'destroy' the economy or take a 'sledgehammer' to it. I had Clive Palmer on my facebook feed every single day with people who could barely string a sentence together.

This is in a Labor stronghold so I'm not sure if there was a swing or not. I do know one guy who despite saying most of these things still said he would vote Labor. I didn't even know how to respond to that.

The thing is the scare mongering was in relation to actual Labor policies, given Labor couldn’t articulate their plans, stuffed up the details or in the case of their climate policies called you dumb and dishonest if you wanted to know the cost.

Whereas with Mediscare it was never Coalition policy, they repeatedly ruled it out and yet Labor kept going and it was everywhere and guess what? It never eventuated.

 

[Kane McGoodwin]

I think you're crazy if you think the scale was even remotely close this time around. The liberals had themselves, Clive Palmer, one nation, news corp and big industry pumping out false and sometimes even ridiculous claims.

I don't know how many of you actually interact with 'the working class'. I work in a factory and I can tell you this campaign was very effective at scaremongering. I had co workers claim to me that they wouldn't be able to use their ute, their rent would go up and their house value would drop significantly (northern suburbs has been declining for nearly 10 years). Not to mention that climate policy will 'destroy' the economy or take a 'sledgehammer' to it. I had Clive Palmer on my facebook feed every single day with people who could barely string a sentence together.

This is in a Labor stronghold so I'm not sure if there was a swing or not. I do know one guy who despite saying most of these things still said he would vote Labor. I didn't even know how to respond to that.

The only people who think the scaremongering is mostly one sided are rusted on supporters.

All parties use this tactic, so leaders should have policies they can articulate to the public despite the other side trying to shoot them down.

Who really understood the implications of Shorten's policies on their cost of living? This should have been explained better!

 

[Elite Crow]

The only people who think the scaremongering is mostly one sided are rusted on supporters.

All parties use this tactic, so leaders should have policies they can articulate to the public despite the other side trying to shoot them down.

Who really understood the implications of Shorten's policies on their cost of living? This should have been explained better!

Exactly. You only have to go back to the first week of the campaign to see what a mess they made of the explaining their policies and they were based on dodgy numbers. Then as they got themselves into more trouble they took them down from their website!

How can you have an ever changing position on their climate costings? No comment, compare it to Big Macs, then the admission they can’t cost it and your dumb or dishonest if you want to know. **** me drunk.

They walked into the election thinking it was already won and they didn’t have to prepare and they had their pants pulled down by the Australian people.

 

[jo172]

PMSL, humorous Joe Aston article in the Fin Review where he absolutely cooks Alex Turnbull.

https://www.afr.com/rear-window/nobody-home-at-alex-turnbull-s-singapore-hedge-fund-20190522-p51q2c

Nobody home at Alex Turnbull's Singapore hedge fund

That's absolutely "cooks"?

Being snooty about the scale of a hedge fund?

 

[Carmo]

The thing is the scare mongering was in relation to actual Labor policies, given Labor couldn’t articulate their plans, stuffed up the details or in the case of their climate policies called you dumb and dishonest if you wanted to know the cost.

Whereas with Mediscare it was never Coalition policy, they repeatedly ruled it out and yet Labor kept going and it was everywhere and guess what? It never eventuated.

So exactly like the inheritance tax thing of labor's this election?

 

[Carmo]

Exactly. You only have to go back to the first week of the campaign to see what a mess they made of the explaining their policies and they were based on dodgy numbers. Then as they got themselves into more trouble they took them down from their website!

How can you have an ever changing position on their climate costings? No comment, compare it to Big Macs, then the admission they can’t cost it and your dumb or dishonest if you want to know. **** me drunk.

They walked into the election thinking it was already won and they didn’t have to prepare and they had their pants pulled down by the Australian people.

Love the revisionism here. I don't think anyone knew how it would turn out. You can't tell me the libs behind the scenes were all relaxed sitting there chillin all like "yep, got this one in the bag".

I don't remember you telling us here anywhere before the election that rural qld would be where it was decided.

 

[Carmo]

I think you're crazy if you think the scale was even remotely close this time around. The liberals had themselves, Clive Palmer, one nation, news corp and big industry pumping out false and sometimes even ridiculous claims.

I don't know how many of you actually interact with 'the working class'. I work in a factory and I can tell you this campaign was very effective at scaremongering. I had co workers claim to me that they wouldn't be able to use their ute, their rent would go up and their house value would drop significantly (northern suburbs has been declining for nearly 10 years). Not to mention that climate policy will 'destroy' the economy or take a 'sledgehammer' to it. I had Clive Palmer on my facebook feed every single day with people who could barely string a sentence together.

This is in a Labor stronghold so I'm not sure if there was a swing or not. I do know one guy who despite saying most of these things still said he would vote Labor. I didn't even know how to respond to that.

I agree with you on the scale. Labor should be aware of this. A major issue that I see for them, and this will be ongoing, is that they just need to be honest and they should go much better. The problem is, saying an honest position of where Australia and the world is at, is something they don't seem comfortable with.

 

[Vader]

The only people who think the scaremongering is mostly one sided are rusted on supporters.

All parties use this tactic, so leaders should have policies they can articulate to the public despite the other side trying to shoot them down.

Who really understood the implications of Shorten's policies on their cost of living? This should have been explained better!

True, but the difference is that Labor actually put forward positive policies this time around. The Liberals had nothing other than scaremongering - it's literally the only thing they did for the entire campaign. With Labor it was 50/50 positive/scare, with the LNP it was 100% scare.

 

[Kane McGoodwin]

True, but the difference is that Labor actually put forward positive policies this time around. The Liberals had nothing other than scaremongering - it's literally the only thing they did for the entire campaign. With Labor it was 50/50 positive/scare, with the LNP it was 100% scare.

Spoken like a rusted on ALP supporter.

Morrison also talked positive issues too... but you probably tuned out, as he talks to us like dummies.

The difference is Morrison kept his messaging simple, whereas Shorten & his colleagues didn't... which opened themselves up to scare mongered.

 

[Vader]

Spoken like a rusted on ALP supporter.

Morrison also talked positive issues too... but you probably tuned out, as he talks to us like dummies.

The difference is Morrison kept his messaging simple, whereas Shorten & his colleagues didn't... which opened themselves up to scare mongered.

Since when was "but Labor" a positive issue?

 

[Kane McGoodwin]

So exactly like the inheritance tax thing of labor's this election?

Exactly - both sides are lax with the truth if they think it will get them votes.

They are as bad as each other & it's laughable that some supporters think one is worse than the other...

 

[Kane McGoodwin]

Since when was "but Labor" a positive issue?

You really tuned out didn't you.

Morrison did at times speak about the coalition policies without mentioning the ALP.

How many times did he go on about the coalition's credentials on economic management (even though they have doubled debt)...

 

[Vader]

You really tuned out didn't you.

As much as was humanly possible. To be fair, I tuned out Labor as well as the Libs. The small ****wit parties didn't even appear on my radar.

Morrison did at times speak about the coalition policies without mentioning the ALP.

He hasn't spoken a sentence without the word Labor since becoming PM.

How many times did he go on about the coalition's credentials on economic management (even though they have doubled debt)...

I just treated those comments as a comedy routine, given that they had no factual basis in reality.