Pre-Season Training

[Dannnnnnnnnn]

No doubt he needs to work on many aspects of his game but we can only select the best defenders at our disposal, not league wide.
He's earned a 2 year contract extension for mine and I have big doubts about Adams being a viable no 1 or no 2 KPP at AFL level. I think we also undersell just how much development it takes to get a no 1 or no 2 KPD AFL ready so I have little to no expectation of Collins in 2016.

Hamling took years to debut, Roberts a couple, Morris was rookied as a 22 year old, Harris was a brain-fade prone ex-KPF for 2 years before he had any decent gametime.

Syd still shapes as our FB/anchor defender for 2016 as best I can tell.

Yep, I agree with all of this. Just the way I read your post made it sound like his one-on-one ability was a strength, but that aside, I agree with much of what you've said.

 

[Dogsman16]

The great thing is that is now we have options. We could possibly have 2 ready to go guys who should be knocking on the door as an alternative brought into the club straight away. I agree that Adams isn't the guy to take on the 200cm beast guys but I think he should be able to match up nicely on the 192 - 195 athletic types that nearly all teams seem to have one of these days. He's certainly one to consider as a 2nd/3rd tall defender for the future.

The other good thing is that theoretically our new wave of key defenders such as Collins/Adams/Cordy should be superior to our last group of defenders having been higher draft picks and Cordy/Collins in particular showing they are amongst the best key defenders of their draft class.

Would like to see Roberts/Hamling/Moz in one NAB game. Collins/Adams/Cordy in the other then select who we think is the best of the lot for each position.

 

[Dogsman16]

You say one more bad word about Moz and I will spew up!

That wasn't what I was trying to get across. Just using it as an example that we should rule out any tactical changes that Bev may feel is the right way to go.

Moz is absolutely the first choice tall/tallish defender we should pick, I'm merely suggesting Bev might consider a more offensive minded 3rd tall if it seems our number 1 and 2 KPD's whomever that may be, seem truly capable of taking the big boys of the competition.

I didn't think Macrae nor Crameri would be dropped for several weeks last season and that happened. I wouldn't rule anything out with the coach we currently have.

 

[Mofra]

The other good thing is that theoretically our new wave of key defenders such as Collins/Adams/Cordy should be superior to our last group of defenders having been higher draft picks and Cordy/Collins in particular showing they are amongst the best key defenders of their draft class.

I have to admit I'm not that optimistic simply because the Lake/Williams/Gilbee/Shaggy/Morris core group was simply outstanding and formed part of the best defensive group of Bulldogs we're likely to see.

Lake is one of the best fullbacks we've had, Williams in those brief moments he was given continuity of football was a solid CHB. Shaggy, Gilbee & Morris need no explanation.
With guys like Murphy rotating through or lock-downs like Timmy C they were outstanding. Our current defensive set up has a long way to go, even accounting for the more "team defence" orientation of how the game is played today.

 

[Leezorr]

Anyone know how Toyd is training?

From the limited information i have seen on the board, he is fitter and slimmer but still looking a couple years away. Hopefully he can cement a spot in the starting 18 this year.

 

[immortalmike]

I guess my opinion on Roberts differs from most here.
I think he is one of the more "natural" footballers on the list. Pace issues are hidden by smarts, given he cuts the angles well, and he naturally gets goal-side to his opponent in one on ones (best one on one defensive % last year except for Morris) and can use the ball well.
He has also learnt the Dale Morris trick of spoiling with his chest (legally) to take the opposition out of the contest.

But.

He has yet to prove he can get through an entire season playing against men. Not just at AFL level, but at VFL level he's been injured and missed weeks. This disrupts development and list managers know they need durable depth in key positions.
I really want Roberts to make it - I really do - but if Collins is nearly as good in 2017 and proves to be durable, he'll be picked ahead of Roberts.
KPDs rarely make much impact in their debut season - can't think of many beyond Dustin Fletcher, and even Rance (the best KPD in the competition) was a whipping boy early on.

Don't think that's a different opinion at all. Agree with most of it myself.

 

[Cudi]

Did he really Fronk ? , at the risk of infruriating some on the board , I thought he was disappointing.
For those that don't get to see VFL games , he had some shockers down there .
In fairness he can't seem to get on the park week in week out , so an injury free year will tell us a lot more.

Sorry but I can't help but feel people saying Roberts had a disappointing year are only saying it with the Walker contest burned in their brain. I went back over every game he played and think the stats back it up. Remember this is a guy who had played 7 games at the start of the year and by the end of it was the full back in a top 6 side. He did at the very least a very solid job:

Tippet 2 goals- was good late in the wet with desperation and body positioning. 7 tackles also.
Bruce 1 - Bruce was near the top of the Coleman race at this stage.
Taberner - 1
Pedereson 3 - Beaten by a very underwhelming player.
McCarthy 1 - Spent some time on Cameron as well but Hamling did the majority of that job.
Shcultz 2 - Did a good job considering the ball was being pumped inside 50 a lot.
Leuenberger/Martin 0
Riewoldt 2 - Did a very good job for 3 quarters until Riewoldt's elite tank beat him. Still did a great job.
Henderson 1 - Smashed him, Henderson only got a goal with a minute left and the game dead.
Dixon/Lynch 2 - Battled hard all day and played bravely while injured in second half
Freeman - 1
Walker 3 - The famous game. Second game back after 8 weeks off at AFL level with ankle injury. Beaten by a seasoned, experienced body.

Just cant see how that's a disappointing year, only 2 games you could count as disappointing. Didn't concede more than 3 goals in any match which I would have thought was acceptable considering Roughy consistently conceded 3+ in previous years playing at Full Back. To say he could be delist material at the end of this year is ridiculous and I honestly just don't get it. immortalmike sentiment is also correct in that he was our first choice FB. Talia and Cordy were both available at the end of the year and Roberts played ahead of them when fit. Roughhead only played 1 game in defence after Round 8 (against Geelong, Roberts was injured).

I'm not saying the jury shouldn't still be our on him or that he will even make it at Full Back but those describing his 2015 so grim is just plain wrong. At this stage he is in front of anyone of the other youngsters for the full back position but that could change once we play some games (NAB games). Can't see how anyone can consider Collins in front at this very stage based on Roberts only being a proven VFL player. I would have thought proven VFL beats proven U/18's.

 

[dergert]

8-10 years ago a full back having three majors kicked on him would be an ok result, considering it was by someone of walker's class it could have been way more. I will continue to say it, but Roberts will be a vital cog in our team imo

 

[RedWhite&Blue]

I have to admit I'm not that optimistic simply because the Lake/Williams/Gilbee/Shaggy/Morris core group was simply outstanding and formed part of the best defensive group of Bulldogs we're likely to see.

Lake is one of the best fullbacks we've had, Williams in those brief moments he was given continuity of football was a solid CHB. Shaggy, Gilbee & Morris need no explanation.
With guys like Murphy rotating through or lock-downs like Timmy C they were outstanding. Our current defensive set up has a long way to go, even accounting for the more "team defence" orientation of how the game is played today.

Just thought I'd correct this for accuracy...
Lake is THE best fullback we've ever had. Probably in the top 3 the game has ever seen

 

[Cudi]

8-10 years ago a full back having three majors kicked on him would be an ok result, considering it was by someone of walker's class it could have been way more. I will continue to say it, but Roberts will be a vital cog in our team imo

Yep also remember Walker kicked two of those 3 from well outside 50 which doesn't happen every week. In other words he kicked 1.3 the next week against Hawthorn and Frawley was lauded as having done an amazing job on him.

 

[King Harold]

I have said enough on Roberts , and can absolutely understand people being positive about him.
I repeat , I havnt given up on him either , but if he dosnt take another step forward this year it wont be just me questioning his spot.
And please this "first choice" full back BS. There was literally no one left other than Talia.

 

[Testekill]

Yep also remember Walker kicked two of those 3 from well outside 50 which doesn't happen every week. In other words he kicked 1.3 the next week against Hawthorn and Frawley was lauded as having done an amazing job on him.

Seriously, Walker only kicked on goal from inside 50. The other two came from leading out to the flanks and kicking from outside 50, the **** is Roberts supposed to do when he was slotting them from out there.

 

[RedWhite&Blue]

Sorry but I can't help but feel people saying Roberts had a disappointing year are only saying it with the Walker contest burned in their brain. I went back over every game he played and think the stats back it up. Remember this is a guy who had played 7 games at the start of the year and by the end of it was the full back in a top 6 side. He did at the very least a very solid job:

Walker 3 - The famous game. Second game back after 8 weeks off at AFL level with ankle injury. Beaten by a seasoned, experienced body.

I've was there and have also watched the replay several times and the very last contest with Walker is the one that really stands out. If the umpire had been doing his F%&*ing job and paid a push in the back to Roberts then we wouldn't be talking about this. 2 players running for the ball - Roberts is leading Walker to the ball and then suddenly he is sent sprawling????? How did that happen
The umpire made Roberts look stupid.

 

[immortalmike]

Sorry but I can't help but feel people saying Roberts had a disappointing year are only saying it with the Walker contest burned in their brain. I went back over every game he played and think the stats back it up. Remember this is a guy who had played 7 games at the start of the year and by the end of it was the full back in a top 6 side. He did at the very least a very solid job:

Tippet 2 goals- was good late in the wet with desperation and body positioning. 7 tackles also.
Bruce 1 - Bruce was near the top of the Coleman race at this stage.
Taberner - 1
Pedereson 3 - Beaten by a very underwhelming player.
McCarthy 1 - Spent some time on Cameron as well but Hamling did the majority of that job.
Shcultz 2 - Did a good job considering the ball was being pumped inside 50 a lot.
Leuenberger/Martin 0
Riewoldt 2 - Did a very good job for 3 quarters until Riewoldt's elite tank beat him. Still did a great job.
Henderson 1 - Smashed him, Henderson only got a goal with a minute left and the game dead.
Dixon/Lynch 2 - Battled hard all day and played bravely while injured in second half
Freeman - 1
Walker 3 - The famous game. Second game back after 8 weeks off at AFL level with ankle injury. Beaten by a seasoned, experienced body.

Just cant see how that's a disappointing year, only 2 games you could count as disappointing. Didn't concede more than 3 goals in any match which I would have thought was acceptable considering Roughy consistently conceded 3+ in previous years playing at Full Back. To say he could be delist material at the end of this year is ridiculous and I honestly just don't get it. immortalmike sentiment is also correct in that he was our first choice FB. Talia and Cordy were both available at the end of the year and Roberts played ahead of them when fit. Roughhead only played 1 game in defence after Round 8 (against Geelong, Roberts was injured).

I'm not saying the jury shouldn't still be our on him or that he will even make it at Full Back but those describing his 2015 so grim is just plain wrong. At this stage he is in front of anyone of the other youngsters for the full back position but that could change once we play some games (NAB games). Can't see how anyone can consider Collins in front at this very stage based on Roberts only being a proven VFL player. I would have thought proven VFL beats proven U/18's.

Wish I could like this twice. Great work GoDoggies.

I think part of the problem with his last game against Walker was the dropped mark in the centre square in conjunction with the blatant push later in the game by Walker. Both made him look stupid and it seems to stick in some people's mind.

 

[threenewpadlocks]

Just thought I'd correct this for accuracy...
Lake is THE best fullback we've ever had. Probably in the top 3 the game has ever seen

Herb Henderson...

 

[VitalDread]

Seriously, Walker only kicked on goal from inside 50. The other two came from leading out to the flanks and kicking from outside 50, the **** is Roberts supposed to do when he was slotting them from out there.

Clearly do a Dunn and wave your fist at them

 

[Dogs_R_Us]

Herb Henderson...

Rick Kennedy might get a mention...

 

[Mofra]

Just thought I'd correct this for accuracy...
Lake is THE best fullback we've ever had. Probably in the top 3 the game has ever seen

Herb Henderson - the historians rave about him, particularly his battles with Coleman who rated him the toughest opponent he had.

 

[RedWhite&Blue]

Herb Henderson - the historians rave about him, particularly his battles with Coleman who rated him the toughest opponent he had.

Yep, can't argue with our premiership fullback.
Was only 187cm tall... gee wiz!

 

[Snake Livermore]

Wish I could like this twice. Great work GoDoggies.

I think part of the problem with his last game against Walker was the dropped mark in the centre square in conjunction with the blatant push later in the game by Walker. Both made him look stupid and it seems to stick in some people's mind.

And the dumb high shot on their midget forward after the ball went past them. And needlessly running himself into trouble and turning it over at half forward gifting the crows their first goal (huge moment in the game). etc

Is it possible to accept that he played a shithouse final? Cos he did. Mitigating circumstances and all, and he did play some promising games early in the year, but there's no doubt he needs to get better. He knows it. He's working on it. If he doesn't improve is his spot under pressure? Absolutely. No harm in acknowledging it, I'm sure Sid is well aware of where he stands.

 

[paulveed]

Yep, can't argue with our premiership fullback.
Was only 187cm tall... gee wiz!

Then again look at the height of Harv. Stevens, and he played as a ruckman. Player sizes then and now are totally different matters.

 

[Cudi]

And the dumb high shot on their midget forward after the ball went past them. And needlessly running himself into trouble and turning it over at half forward gifting the crows their first goal (huge moment in the game). etc

Is it possible to accept that he played a shithouse final? Cos he did. Mitigating circumstances and all, and he did play some promising games early in the year, but there's no doubt he needs to get better. He knows it. He's working on it. If he doesn't improve is his spot under pressure? Absolutely. No harm in acknowledging it, I'm sure Sid is well aware of where he stands.

I can accept that thought from people easily, my point was one bad final doesn't mean he had a bad season. His body of work over the whole season was solid and promising. Also acknowledge his spot is under pressure but his spot on the list isn't yet.

 

[immortalmike]

And the dumb high shot on their midget forward after the ball went past them. And needlessly running himself into trouble and turning it over at half forward gifting the crows their first goal (huge moment in the game). etc

Is it possible to accept that he played a shithouse final? Cos he did. Mitigating circumstances and all, and he did play some promising games early in the year, but there's no doubt he needs to get better. He knows it. He's working on it. If he doesn't improve is his spot under pressure? Absolutely. No harm in acknowledging it, I'm sure Sid is well aware of where he stands.

I'm not sure who you're arguing with as I haven't seen anyone suggest he had a great final or that he doesn't need to improve. Just that it's been overstated. Try not to strawman.

 

[AFDogs]

I am watching this game (Adel vs. us 2015 Final) and geez Lin Jong played well. Big things coming for him this year.

 

[CaptainMurphy]

I am watching this game (Adel vs. us 2015 Final) and geez Lin Jong played well. Big things coming for him this year.

Still can't watch it again. Maybe after our round 1 win.