Training Pre season training

[gringo2011]

In the past these claims have always been based on hope - hope that with a full season he can kick more goals or whatever

This pre-season it looks like he's genuinely gotten bigger and stronger and there's been a change of mindset by coaches to not just get him to recover from his injury, but transform his body in the process

He also has support now with Sharman and hopefully Caminiti or Keeler. Also one of the best i50 kicks in the comp in Macrae (when at his best)

That could be good or bad. It means they want him parked in the G-square probably. I much prefer him mobile. Let Hammer break packs open and spill for the smalls.

 

[phantom13]

That could be good or bad. It means they want him parked in the G-square probably. I much prefer him mobile. Let Hammer break packs open and spill for the smalls.

He needed some size purely for protection, even Roo was never built like a rake.

 

[akaifu]

That could be good or bad. It means they want him parked in the G-square probably. I much prefer him mobile. Let Hammer break packs open and spill for the smalls.

Given how skinny he always has been, I reckon ~8kg of size is a good thing whichever way it determines his role

I’m pretty sure I heard somewhere that the muscle hasn’t hindered his running (idk how but that’s just what was said)

As a FF, he’ll be a taller Charlie Curnow type

As a CHF, a taller Rooey type

type

Not saying he’ll be better than them, just that he might play similar

 

[The Punter]

Running ability we are set. Defence looks good despite the Battle departure.

The variables for me are: forward line continuity, and inside midfield competitiveness (we only need to be competitive rather than dominant). If we get those two, we have demonstrated over and over again in the last two years no team is unavailable to us to defeat.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

We seem to be collecting a good lot of marking ability.
Marking is a great way to transition. If you move the ball and not have to contest it off the ground, you aren't relying on clearances as much.

 

[Saintbloke]

We seem to be collecting a good lot of marking ability.
Marking is a great way to transition. If you move the ball and not have to contest it off the ground, you aren't relying on clearances as much.

I notice the teams who do well, have good marking power across the lines and from tall to small..good one-on-one contest winners. Brisbane were a good example of that this season.

 

[aussierulesrules]

The midfield for mine is the area that has the most scope for huge improvement.

Not only have we added a Crouch-like ball-magnet in Macrae, but Pou is potentially like an even bigger “new recruit” in there.

Because we only got 4 games of “good Pou” this year, and only two of them were in the midfield (once he returned from that two week spell with illness, he played forward for those last two rounds- possibly due to lost conditioning while sick), so if he happens to have a breakout year next year, and it’s in the midfield, that’s like having added a bonafide gun in the offseason, given we only got two games of that Pou in there this year.

And that’s before we get to all the others in there that have scope to be better than they were this year.

Which is basically all of them. Even Steele, if he’s injury free and relieved to finally have some of the load taken off.

Then the others are all obvious how they could be better.

Clark, Windy, Jones, Dow, Carroll, Garcia.

And like Punter said, we’ve shown that we only need to be competitive in there in order to be up to our ears in games against good teams.

Even when our midfield was putrid in the first half of this year we lost to GWS by 1 point up north. Hawthorn by 5 points in Tassie, Geelong by 8 in Geelong, Port by 10 in Adelaide, and we beat Collingwood at the G.

 

[saint66au]

Is/was there training today?

 

[gringo2011]

Given how skinny he always has been, I reckon ~8kg of size is a good thing whichever way it determines his role

I’m pretty sure I heard somewhere that the muscle hasn’t hindered his running (idk how but that’s just what was said)

As a FF, he’ll be a taller Charlie Curnow type

As a CHF, a taller Rooey type

type

Not saying he’ll be better than them, just that he might play similar

I can't see him being either to be honest. Both hard leading athletes. I'd take G Train, the bulk and burst combo making him hard to hold. Just stick his arse out and outreach if stationary.

 

[Michael Goodinski]

Not sure what a "stagger" does.. The guy who staggers on to the field after a big night out, and still tears it up?

I know the bulldogs and hawks have some stagers, like Weightman and Ginnivan. Dont think Jones can play that role.

The stagger usually plays on a tagger who's playing on the best player in the opposition. His job is to negate the effect of the tagger on his team mate.

Then comes the "etagger", whose job it is to collect money from all the players. It is an unfair levy forced upon the very people who prop up the competition's administration, through hard work and sacrifice.

The etagger is usually attacked by both staggers and taggers in a rare show of player unity, instead of adhering to club loyalties.

 

[gringo2011]

The midfield for mine is the area that has the most scope for huge improvement.

Not only have we added a Crouch-like ball-magnet in Macrae, but Pou is potentially like an even bigger “new recruit” in there.

Because we only got 4 games of “good Pou” this year, and only two of them were in the midfield (once he returned from that two week spell with illness, he played forward for those last two rounds- possibly due to lost conditioning while sick), so if he happens to have a breakout year next year, and it’s in the midfield, that’s like having added a bonafide gun in the offseason, given we only got two games of that Pou in there this year.

And that’s before we get to all the others in there that have scope to be better than they were this year.

Which is basically all of them. Even Steele, if he’s injury free and relieved to finally have some of the load taken off.

Then the others are all obvious how they could be better.

Clark, Windy, Jones, Dow, Carroll, Garcia.

And like Punter said, we’ve shown that we only need to be competitive in there in order to be up to our ears in games against good teams.

Even when our midfield was putrid in the first half of this year we lost to GWS by 1 point up north. Hawthorn by 5 points in Tassie, Geelong by 8 in Geelong, Port by 10 in Adelaide, and we beat Collingwood at the G.

Even Dow didn't get to show himself at his best. Injury held him back when he finally had the opportunity to get a full time mid spot. I was never a huge fan but he barely got to his baseline at Carlton.

Realistically we probably play Macrae and Steele as our centre square mids with Phillipou and a bench rotation most weeks so a decent set up will be playing at Sandy.

We really excel off HB and on the outside so getting some extra first use should make us more potent.

 

[akaifu]

I can't see him being either to be honest. Both hard leading athletes. I'd take G Train, the bulk and burst combo making him hard to hold. Just stick his arse out and outreach if stationary.

King will never be as strong as G-train without compromising every other athletic attribute he has

I think he has the capacity to lead at the ball carrier, as we saw when he was playing higher up the ground

With the added muscle, he'll be able to compete in 1v1s. The profile is similar to Curnow who can also do either - athletic enough to roam the ground while being strong enough to hold off kpps in 1v1s to take contested marks i50

 

[aussierulesrules]

King will never be as strong as G-train without compromising every other athletic attribute he has

I think he has the capacity to lead at the ball carrier, as we saw when he was playing higher up the ground

With the added muscle, he'll be able to compete in 1v1s. The profile is similar to Curnow who can also do either - athletic enough to roam the ground while being strong enough to hold off kpps in 1v1s to take contested marks i50

Curnow is said to have a huge tank though, whereas that seems to be a big weakness for Max.

I wonder if we’ve given up on the idea of him having the tank to be able to push up the ground a lot more, and now just want him to stay close to goal and have the strength to be able to outmuscle opposition?

 

[aussierulesrules]

Even Dow didn't get to show himself at his best. Injury held him back when he finally had the opportunity to get a full time mid spot. I was never a huge fan but he barely got to his baseline at Carlton.

Realistically we probably play Macrae and Steele as our centre square mids with Phillipou and a bench rotation most weeks so a decent set up will be playing at Sandy.

We really excel off HB and on the outside so getting some extra first use should make us more potent.

Yeah Dow might as well not even gone around this year almost. He played one game where he got in the coaches votes, but outside of that he was well short of what he was doing at Carlton last year.

Will be really interesting what they do with him and Jones this year, given they’re presumably fighting for that one spot.

Even though Zak was going better than him late in the year, they shunted him out to the wing, so that Dow could keep playing inside, so it wouldn’t surprise me if that was a sign of things to come (Dow getting priority in the middle. Zak to the VFL).

 

[akaifu]

Curnow is said to have a huge tank though, whereas that seems to be a big weakness for Max.

I wonder if we’ve given up on the idea of him having the tank to be able to push up the ground a lot more, and now just want him to stay close to goal and have the strength to be able to outmuscle opposition?

We saw Max do it in the early parts of the year so clearly he's capable

But its also fine for him to rest forward and do a temporary swap with Sharman mid-game if he fatigues because Sharman showed against the Bombers that he can play the role too

There's plenty of ways to get around it via rotations. I think we'll see him play a mix of both roles depending on matchups/opposition/who he is playing alongside (Keeler? Caminiti? Barrat? Tauru?)

 

[kick it lace out]

Training Friday 6th December

Brutal weather, and a brutal training session in hot, steamy and sometimes windy conditions.

When I arrived I noticed pretty much the full squad out on the training track including the core group missing from earlier in the week. The rehab group is getting smaller with only Stocker and Liam Henry in it today (joined later on by Caminiti who was having his shoulder tested in a pretty brutal session).
Liam Henry did a couple of gentle run throughs but he looked proppy - he kept looking down at his knee. It doesn't look good at the moment and I'd say he is a long way off from joining in on training. Gave me Brad Crouch vibes - ouch!

Todays' session had lots of punishing running. At about the half way point, the core group that re-joined training broke out into three groups and ran laps at a pretty decent pace. Every time Marshall and Howard came past you could hear them sucking in deep breathes. Wilson once again was the stand-out in this running drill along with Steele and Byrnes.
Once this group completed their running, they disappeared into the gym. Good to see Windy out there in full training today. as well as Max King.

There was a drill which focused on the forward craft, led by Brendan Bolton. Ball kicked into the forward line (reasonably deep entry), with the small forwards charging towards the kicker, creating space behind them. The FF & FB would contest the mark, while the small forwards doubled back towards the contest looking to crumb the spoil. Good energy about this drill with lots of encouragement and feedback.
Later on, there was a defence vs offence drill, where it looked like the focus for the forwards was to move the ball quickly (release their teammate) and the defenders job was to pick up loose players, apply pressure and cut off outlets. A few skill errors here, mainly by hand with targets being missed. RTB quick to provide feedback. I must say, RTB's feedback is elite. The way he gets into the detail with his feedback is amazing. No wonder he is such a great coach.
He had a go at Keeler at one point for his positioning. Seemed to be standing in no man's land.

Of the new recruits, Travaglia is going to be a star. He is so prominent in training. He's one of those guys where you can't take your eyes off him. His link up play and running are elite for someone so young. This may sound strange but I reckon Dodson is already ahead of Heath. I really like the way he moves - very agile for someone 203cm. One more pre-seaon and he'll be ready to go. Patrick Said has a very nice side step while High Boxshall is a very good size and doesn't look out of his depth in the drills. Quite strong and neat with this skills. No Elwood Peckett today.

At the very end, the players changed into their runners for more running work. Man this was brutal to watch.

First off, they ran around the oval for 2 minutes. Brad Hill clearly in front, followed by Jack Higgins and Angus McLelland. They then did a series of 50 metre sprints (at about 60-70% effort) with 15 second rests between efforts. This is where Keeler really stood out. He was in front on every sprint, and clearly in front. The longer this went, the more noticeable it was that the two Carlton boys (Dow & Carroll) were struggling. Did they not run at Carlton?
They then finished by another 2 minute lap of the oval. The Pou was so determined to win this, and he did. Followed closely by Irish. By this stage Carroll was really struggling and he ended up last by some way. He really needs to build a tank to compliment his exquisite kicking skills. Macrae did ok in the running, about middle of the pack.
The best runners today were Hill, Pou, Higgins, McLellan & Irish. I was pleasantly surprised by how much Collard has improved with his running. He even did a chase down tackle in one of the drills which got a loud acknowledgement for.

All in all, it was a punishing session. If our running was good last year, I reckon we're going to take it to another level next year. It also feels like along with running ability, we've made skills a pre-requisite in our drafting.

Cheers,

 

[Drop Kick]

Is/was there training today?

Yes.

 

[akaifu]

Open training next Wednesday

 

[King_Steele]

Training Friday 6th December

Brutal weather, and a brutal training session in hot, steamy and sometimes windy conditions.

When I arrived I noticed pretty much the full squad out on the training track including the core group missing from earlier in the week. The rehab group is getting smaller with only Stocker and Liam Henry in it today (joined later on by Caminiti who was having his shoulder tested in a pretty brutal session).
Liam Henry did a couple of gentle run throughs but he looked proppy - he kept looking down at his knee. It doesn't look good at the moment and I'd say he is a long way off from joining in on training. Gave me Brad Crouch vibes - ouch!

Todays' session had lots of punishing running. At about the half way point, the core group that re-joined training broke out into three groups and ran laps at a pretty decent pace. Every time Marshall and Howard came past you could hear them sucking in deep breathes. Wilson once again was the stand-out in this running drill along with Steele and Byrnes.
Once this group completed their running, they disappeared into the gym. Good to see Windy out there in full training today. as well as Max King.

There was a drill which focused on the forward craft, led by Brendan Bolton. Ball kicked into the forward line (reasonably deep entry), with the small forwards charging towards the kicker, creating space behind them. The FF & FB would contest the mark, while the small forwards doubled back towards the contest looking to crumb the spoil. Good energy about this drill with lots of encouragement and feedback.
Later on, there was a defence vs offence drill, where it looked like the focus for the forwards was to move the ball quickly (release their teammate) and the defenders job was to pick up loose players, apply pressure and cut off outlets. A few skill errors here, mainly by hand with targets being missed. RTB quick to provide feedback. I must say, RTB's feedback is elite. The way he gets into the detail with his feedback is amazing. No wonder he is such a great coach.
He had a go at Keeler at one point for his positioning. Seemed to be standing in no man's land.

Of the new recruits, Travaglia is going to be a star. He is so prominent in training. He's one of those guys where you can't take your eyes off him. His link up play and running are elite for someone so young. This may sound strange but I reckon Dodson is already ahead of Heath. I really like the way he moves - very agile for someone 203cm. One more pre-seaon and he'll be ready to go. Patrick Said has a very nice side step while High Boxshall is a very good size and doesn't look out of his depth in the drills. Quite strong and neat with this skills. No Elwood Peckett today.

At the very end, the players changed into their runners for more running work. Man this was brutal to watch.

First off, they ran around the oval for 2 minutes. Brad Hill clearly in front, followed by Jack Higgins and Angus McLelland. They then did a series of 50 metre sprints (at about 60-70% effort) with 15 second rests between efforts. This is where Keeler really stood out. He was in front on every sprint, and clearly in front. The longer this went, the more noticeable it was that the two Carlton boys (Dow & Carroll) were struggling. Did they not run at Carlton?
They then finished by another 2 minute lap of the oval. The Pou was so determined to win this, and he did. Followed closely by Irish. By this stage Carroll was really struggling and he ended up last by some way. He really needs to build a tank to compliment his exquisite kicking skills. Macrae did ok in the running, about middle of the pack.
The best runners today were Hill, Pou, Higgins, McLellan & Irish. I was pleasantly surprised by how much Collard has improved with his running. He even did a chase down tackle in one of the drills which got a loud acknowledgement for.

All in all, it was a punishing session. If our running was good last year, I reckon we're going to take it to another level next year. It also feels like along with running ability, we've made skills a pre-requisite in our drafting.

Cheers,

Thanks for the report. Not good to hear about Henry. Could be career in jeopardy

 

[FraserFridays]

I know a lot of this has probably been mentioned but here are my observations from Friday 6th December.

Very muggy early. Cooled down a bit later in the session.

Noticed no Wilkie or Garcia

Owens warming up before anyone running laps. Looks a man mountain.

Caminiti and Stocker did rehab Hammer joined in the main group for some drills.

Jones very vocal and has definitely put on size. Looks to be very fit. Definitely got into players when they made silly errors.

Drills were all about tight in contest and using the right option.

Brendan Bolton ran the early drills.

Alot of people have said Max King has put on weight. Absolutely has.

Jack Carroll and Max Hall look to be very quick and link players half forward.

Phillipou is very quick and is covering the ground like never before. Most vocal out there.

MaCrae doesn't say much. Very quiet. But when he does they listen.

Spoke to Henry who said today was his first running session. Said his knee wasn't great. But now he is on the mend and putting one foot in front of the other.

Read alot about Keeler. Very very impressive. Unbelievable mover. Really understanding where he needs to be. Very clean. One touch player. The running they did at the end he absolutely dominated. Was in front of every single one. Phillipou also right up there with him.

Most of the senior boys did a lot of the drills and then ran a few laps and went in.

Sat in the stands and got talking to a Herald sun reporter who was there to do an article on the Saints new recruits. But he said no one was really standing out. I said Carroll has been very impressive with his speed also said MaCrae isn't going to stand out per say but he will definitely be so important in that midfield group.

Was sort of hard to gauge alot of players as they were sort of all over the place.

The running they did at the very end Phillipou was in front followed closely by O'Connell. Jack Carroll really struggled and finished last. Looked to have either a quad cramp or just tightness. Seen stretching it a lot and missed the next couple of run throughs. I am hoping that he was last was due to this.

Max Heath definitely has improved his tank. There was a run through where I watched him realise he was over the start line and he moved back behind it. Where a Sandy player stayed over the line. Thought that really said that he is going to cheat himself and fo everything he can.

Hugh Boxshall was to me one that caught the eye in the in tight contested stuff. Yes made some mistakes. But definitely took them on and really looks like he can be a good player.

Steele definitely looking much fitter than last year.

Hunter Clark definitely fitter. Really held his own in the laps with the good runners.

Darcy Wilson is a freak of nature.

Travaglia plays round 1. He is so impressive.

Dodson is also a handy runner. Really good mover.

Higgins kept up with Hill and Phillipou in the laps they were running.

Max Hall is very solid and looks ready to have a good year.

Noticed that MaCrae did the whole session. As did Higgins and Hill.

Schoenmaker is looking in ripping nick. Just can't quiet get into position quick enough. But that will come.

Sessions finished at 12.

 

[Tommy Wigs]

Ok, I’m up next. Agree with a lot of what Kick It identified. I was on the far side, so I may have missed some elements.

No Garcia. Most of the NZ crew ran and some early ball handling type drills, but then disappeared. Stocker putting in a huge amount of running on the far side. I thought Henry was chatting to assistants and Stock about his footwear. But I didn’t see him coming off, so I may have missed something.

I nearly vomited watching. Incredible amount of running and drills.

• I can’t speak more highly of Pou and I won’t go on about it
• Carroll has a lovely step and thought he was good in the narrow / but longer drills (a form of match sim, I guess).
• Re: the Blue boys - yes, absolutely gassed. It could also be the amount of effort that they put in the 3 billion drills and running that they did. Who knows, but going hard in earlier efforts might mean that the extra running at the end could be taken with a grain of salt. I thought Carroll ran hard in what I saw, so it could have been that.
• Keeler’s running may have been the reverse - through the simulations, he at least got to hang back and may have had more gas in the tank as well.
• Also noticed a better effort from Collard today, but he runs like someone is squeezing his knackers - looks painful watching him. Head shakes all over the place. Like Keeler, he also had the juicy hang back forward role. On the lap running towards the end, the weaker runners were on an inside line that may have reduced a lap by 20 odd metres? Collard was on the inner lane.
• Liked what I saw of Hall. Very zippy. Could see him playing a high HFF role that is becoming so important. I’m a bigger fan than many of Buts and the role he plays, but that’s arguably the role Hall could take (but necessarily the traditional small fwd).
• As I said the other day, Dodson is going to be a huge man. I agree that he’ll be past Heath pretty quickly.
• Hard to know on Boyd without seeing match play, but he has a crack, he’s vocal, even when running with quite decent runners. Certainly would outrun Ro, Heath etc. At worst, he will be a good citizen.
• It’s hard to say much about the draftees without a sense of game play. I found it hard to take my eyes off Dodson. Whoever in the media said TT lacked some pace must have been drunk. He is going to be pretty dynamic and there is a lot more of these frenetic/ quick players in the top teams.
• Box moves well. His kicking is a major concern for me. If he can be a 7 kicks, 18 HB like Dunkley then that may still work for him. He is raw and think parts of his midfield game (from watching the GF) will need work - sitting outside the pack at times. But he does have excellent clearance craft when in very tight and he has excellent movement for the type of player that he is likely to emulate.
• I thought Hastie did well. Issue is we have 24 of his type. Has good game sense and a quick first step/s.
• Max looked gassed when running. Hammer looks on track.
• Zones looks in great nick. IMO, he has Dow well covered.
• Macrae classy.

 

[beside the seaside]

Thanks for the report. Not good to hear about Henry. Could be career in jeopardy

He's 24, sounds like a frustrating one but a bit early to call career in jeopardy. He'll be a big loss though, hopefully we take our time with him as he's a gun.

Bloody pleasing to read that the rehab group is so small. Was reading some Hawks reports out of interest and their rehab group is way bigger. If it can stay this way we could be set up for a really good season.

 

[stfan]

That could be good or bad. It means they want him parked in the G-square probably. I much prefer him mobile. Let Hammer break packs open and spill for the smalls.

Hopefully they do not park him in the goal square.

His key advantage is his height, reach and leap.... When doing that on the move IF the ball is kicked well do him he will be hard to stop.

When parked, even undersized defenders can nudge at the right time to spoil a mark, normally for another defender to gather.



But yes extra strength and mass will be an asset when it is a pack mark or contested situation. But you really want those to be Plan B opportunities and not Plan A.

 

[Saints4ever]

I hope it works out ok but I’m really concerned about Henrys knee.

Please don’t cut down another player before his prime.

Travaglia has me super excited, I had barely heard of him before he was drafted and all I could focus on was the super 6 and how do we get Langford or Smillie but I gotta say I’m very impressed with young Tobie.

 

[aussierulesrules]

I hope it works out ok but I’m really concerned about Henry’s knee.

Please don’t cut down another player before his prime.

Travaglia has me super excited, I had barely heard of him before he was drafted and all I could focus on was the super 6 and how do we get Langford or Smillie but I gotta say I’m very impressed with young Tobie.

Sounds like we wouldn’t have picked Smillie even if he was available.