Training Preseason 22-23

[weltschmerz]

Saints team is horrible and like one of those teams you throw together on FIFA, and the lines between all your starting players are red or orange, indicating a team with poor chemistry, with players thrown together desperately trying to make a good team. No way they finish ahead of us. Suns will improve I reckon and may surprise some. But I am confident if we start the season no worse than 3-3, we will make the 8 no worries.

Saints wanted to hit the trade period hard and finished it with Zaine Cordy.

 

[Mofra]

It's weird because we had a down year where a few of our categories we dropped off in, should not be any worse this year. In fact I think they can only go upwards. Plus we have strengthened our key positions stocks significantly. Addressed needs in the draft. And players resting and coming off injury interrupted seasons means we have more significant depth. People talked about how we had no one outside of Keath and Gardiner. Now we have Jones, Darcy, Bruce, and enough forward depth to "break glass in case of emergency" with Naughton if needed.

Our bad stats were so poor, no way they could get any worse surely?
Two new defenders and two new forwards
Additional ruck help
Greater team depth

Just trying to see how we will be worse and drop back further when we have improved?

Saints team is horrible and like one of those teams you throw together on FIFA, and the lines between all your starting players are red or orange, indicating a team with poor chemistry, with players thrown together desperately trying to make a good team. No way they finish ahead of us. Suns will improve I reckon and may surprise some. But I am confident if we start the season no worse than 3-3, we will make the 8 no worries.

So many have predicted us to finish lower this season coming, so it is interesting to try understand their reasons.

We did just lose our B&F and (arguably) or only real 'defensive' mid so there is some cause for concern.

Countering that for me is gettingToby McLean back.
The kid can play and I think people have largely forgotten that. He's come back in terrific shape and has real forward instincts so can rest forward on rotation.
I think he becomes a lot more important in our game style than anyone outside the club give him credit for.

 

[Dannnnnnnnnn]

I get that the Doggies need to prove it to the mainstream before they are trusted but I’ve seen a lot of ‘expert’ ladders that have the Saints and Gold Coast in front of us, zero reason for that.

The media operate on the 'vibe' more than anything which means our closed-book approach hurts us in their estimations. Other clubs control the media narrative better than we do - the Saints were able to overcome the coverage of a disappointing trade period and coaching kerfuffle by really pushing hard the Ross Lyon 'comeback' and what a coup it was. The Suns can be a little bit protected by their small profile and young list, but they have also been pretty aggressive with their good news stories (e.g. the Rowell re-signing) to offset giving up a first rounder to get rid of a good player and losing another good player for a draft pick. They have gone to great lengths to explain the strategy there (rightly or wrongly) and immediately followed it up with a re-signing, and pushed hard that this 'vindicated' their decision.

In contrast, we lost quite a number of premiership players (including a B&F) after a disappointing season and apart from a few generic rent-a-quotes haven't really explained our strategy or given any insight into why things have been a struggle of late. Throw in the rumours of fractures in the group that circulate when you don't control the narrative and there is little reason for the media to trust us right now.

FWIW, I think you'd be a brave person to predict the Saints and Suns finishing ahead of us this season. I think it's plausible for many of the same reasons I'm sure the media do, but without question if that were to happen it would be a failure of a season.

 

[Hoges64]

We did just lose our B&F and (arguably) or only real 'defensive' mid so there is some cause for concern.

Countering that for me is gettingToby McLean back.
The kid can play and I think people have largely forgotten that. He's come back in terrific shape and has real forward instincts so can rest forward on rotation.
I think he becomes a lot more important in our game style than anyone outside the club give him credit for.

I recently watched our 2016 Season highlights package and it was astonishing how many times McLean was involved in those plays. A very underrated kick and player, I hope he can come back and play the full 23 games.

 

[True Dog]

I recently watched our 2016 Season highlights package and it was astonishing how many times McLean was involved in those plays. A very underrated kick and player, I hope he can come back and play the full 23 games.

His efforts in the late stages on the Prelim Final will live with me forever. Numerous times he found the will power to go again when he had no right to for someone still so young. I couldn’t believe what I was seeing right in front of me…. That’s what it takes to win flags!

 

[dogwatch]

Who gives a shit what the media think? We know they are no better at picking winners and losers than we are (i.e. pretty ordinary). I'm happy to read their news reports from the club (signings, injuries, surgeries, training form, etc) but won't waste my time reading their off-season space fillers.

And TBH I can get pretty much all that good stuff - and more - from reading BF with no paywall. A one stop shop.

 

[MrChristo]

I recently watched our 2016 Season highlights package and it was astonishing how many times McLean was involved in those plays. A very underrated kick and player, I hope he can come back and play the full 23 games.

Ha. Brilliant. I watched the first 1/4 or so of it again on the weekend.
(Missed my now usual Christmas/Boxing Day Prelim/GF replay for various reasons.

 

[The Slitherin' Snake]

Pure laziness. A GF side from 2021 in their prime that had an off 2022. Have also strengthened multiple lines.

Some of these so called experts put no effort in to their job.

Conversely, 2021 looks more like the outlier than 2022 for mine. I'm also not certain we have strengthened multiple lines - we're definitely weaker in the midfield and i'm not sold on Jones contributing much at all (very happy to be proven wrong). The forward line does look better though

 

[doggies ftw]

$288 price for the Bont Brownlow/Dogs Flag Double.

Won’t get odds like that again for genuine contenders in both categories.

Good call, that’s great odds for what realistically should be one of the top 4 contenders for flag and one of the top 2 (IMO should be favourite) contenders for Brownlow, also considering both go hand in hand too (ie if Bont is in brownlow contention chances are we’re going deep in finals)

Throw in Naughty for Coleman for $7500 odds - 23yo, has a fully functioning supporting structure around him now, a clear shift in mindset to faster ball movement and should be in a winning side.

2021 = 21yo, 50 goals, great side, great support (Bruce & English), terrible accuracy, zero scoreboard impact from general play

2022 = 22yo, 50 goals, much better accuracy & goals from general play but zero support, poor team ball movement and really lacking compared to his best in CM/MI50 etc

2023 = new found accuracy + scoreboard impact from general play along with much better support structure = ?

Injury free he’ll kick 60+ and be in contention.

Good start to the year and you’re cashing out a lot more than you put in.

 

[doggies ftw]

Conversely, 2021 looks more like the outlier than 2022 for mine. I'm also not certain we have strengthened multiple lines - we're definitely weaker in the midfield and i'm not sold on Jones contributing much at all (very happy to be proven wrong). The forward line does look better though

Why wouldn’t Jones contribute? One of the premier full backs in the competition, sublime fitness and body shape - hasn’t missed a beat all preseason? Even if you’re iffy on whether he’ll contribute surely at least having him on the list (+ the best defender in the draft) is an upgrade on last year?

Defence improved, Forward line improved, Ruck stocks improved. Agree our Midfield is weaker but that’s still improving on multiple lines is it not?

 

[Mofra]

Why wouldn’t Jones contribute? One of the premier full backs in the competition, sublime fitness and body shape - hasn’t missed a beat all preseason? Even if you’re iffy on whether he’ll contribute surely at least having him on the list (+ the best defender in the draft) is an upgrade on last year?

Defence improved, Forward line improved, Ruck stocks improved. Agree our Midfield is weaker but that’s still improving on multiple lines is it not?

Even if Jones didn't contribute, Gardner will reach the 50 games mark this season and between Bruce/Keath we could feasibly cobble together a second KPD. It still might be a small improvement on last year.

Lobb is a significant improvement on our other F/R2 forward options and I really hope McLean has a good year to offset some of the loss of Dunkley.

 

[Dogs_R_Us]

His efforts in the late stages on the Prelim Final will live with me forever. Numerous times he found the will power to go again when he had no right to for someone still so young. I couldn’t believe what I was seeing right in front of me…. That’s what it takes to win flags!

A couple of really important spoils and intercepts. He’s a smart player, Toby. It’s somewhat unfair that he’s better known for dropping the knees to escape tackles, but hey, there’s a lot to look forward to.

 

[inyourfacedunk]

Really looking forward to having McLean back.
First game back last year in the finals, and for that quarter and a half before he gassed he was easily BOG.
Full pre-season and full fitness...immense.

 

[Flags_In_The_Bag]

Holy crap, didn’t know he was as tall as English

What gets me is those three idiots Cameron, Patton, and Lobb publicly berated Boyd for leaving, then all three did the same a few years later, hypocritical much.

 

[Flags_In_The_Bag]

Have to agree we look unbeataboe.
Every team has a weak line or lack depth in a certain area. We lack a quality winger but we have every other line covered and now have depth. If Baker or Arty can come on and at times Adz and B Smith play 30% there it may not be a weakness. Like to see Williams play there all preseason as he has the attributes.

With 2 quality KPD (Jones and hopefully 2021 Keath) and a mobile lock down third tall who can zone off if required (Gardner) and quality mid and small defenders our defence should be fine unless our game plan sucks again.

Like to see Khamis, Bruce, Raak, Darcy continue to play both ends in the preseason. Lobb, Naughton and JUH is a dream forward combo and we still have arguably the best midfield.

Our team is so well balanced and talented, we do not need to reinvent the wheel and find a point of difference to get an advantage, just need to keep up with the Cats, Dees and Pies game plan.

This is the year we do a Geelong and continuing getting top 4 until a flag becomes again.

 

[House_of_Dahl]

$288 price for the Bont Brownlow/Dogs Flag Double.

Won’t get odds like that again for genuine contenders in both categories.

I got on this last year. Have $2 on it and pays $604 haha

Edit - and if Naughton also wins the Coleman I win $42K ($5 bet). That'd be a very happy day on multiple fronts!

 

[The Slitherin' Snake]

Why wouldn’t Jones contribute? One of the premier full backs in the competition, sublime fitness and body shape - hasn’t missed a beat all preseason? Even if you’re iffy on whether he’ll contribute surely at least having him on the list (+ the best defender in the draft) is an upgrade on last year?

Defence improved, Forward line improved, Ruck stocks improved. Agree our Midfield is weaker but that’s still improving on multiple lines is it not?

Because he’s been out of the game for a year and is over 30. He was also never one of the premier fullbacks of the competition. He was a good backman at Carlton but don’t rewrite history. I don’t think he ever made an AA squad.

There is a lot riding on Jones being good (and I seriously hope he is) but I’m far from convinced.

 

[Maverick Dog]

Pure laziness. A GF side from 2021 in their prime that had an off 2022. Have also strengthened multiple lines.

Some of these so called experts put no effort in to their job.

Spot on CB. Totally agree. I am worried now.

 

[doggies ftw]

Because he’s been out of the game for a year and is over 30. He was also never one of the premier fullbacks of the competition. He was a good backman at Carlton but don’t rewrite history. I don’t think he ever made an AA squad.

There is a lot riding on Jones being good (and I seriously hope he is) but I’m far from convinced.

Meh go off AA selectors if you wish, not exactly the most credible of people - also probably more to do with games played. Don’t play 22 games very rarely get AA.

across 2017 to 2021 he ranked elite in spoils, 1-on-1s, 1-on-1 win percentage, intercept marks, contested marks & one percenters. He absolutely was one of the top handful of full backs in the league across that period, that ain’t rewriting history my mans

 

[Nat Fyfe]

Meh go off AA selectors if you wish, not exactly the most credible of people - also probably more to do with games played. Don’t play 22 games very rarely get AA.

across 2017 to 2021 he ranked elite in spoils, 1-on-1s, 1-on-1 win percentage, intercept marks, contested marks & one percenters. He absolutely was one of the top handful of full backs in the league across that period, that ain’t rewriting history my mans

I'm not optimistic that we'll be getting the same Liam Jones this year, but I still think he immediately improves our defence. Gardner and a fit Keath are likely to be better players this year, but we're comparing Jones to the likes of Cordy, Raak and Khamis who made up our key defensive stocks last year (although Khamis was forward and Raak not even selected). It's a pretty damn low bar that's been set, and I doubt Jones has regressed that much that he wouldn't be selected round 1. Our recruiters can't be that bad. I look forward to seeing what he brings, as we've been missing a proper 1-on-1 tall defender

 

[Dazb86]

Jones will be good IMO. Hopefully good enough to change the way we set up

 

[dogwatch]

Jones will be good IMO. Hopefully good enough to change the way we set up

This.

He doesn't have to be AA. He just has to play his role well enough that we can set up a better defensive system than we have the last couple of years.

Exactly how they do it I don't care but it's surely obvious that we aren't winning a flag - and maybe not even making top 4 - unless we can defend much better than we have been doing. The midfield and forwards have a role in that but ultimately it's down to the structure and abilities of the back six.

 

[Pugz89]

I got on this last year. Have $2 on it and pays $604 haha

Edit - and if Naughton also wins the Coleman I win $42K ($5 bet). That'd be a very happy day on multiple fronts!

Enough to shout beers after winning the premiership!

 

[bobs head soup]

Meh go off AA selectors if you wish, not exactly the most credible of people - also probably more to do with games played. Don’t play 22 games very rarely get AA.

across 2017 to 2021 he ranked elite in spoils, 1-on-1s, 1-on-1 win percentage, intercept marks, contested marks & one percenters. He absolutely was one of the top handful of full backs in the league across that period, that ain’t rewriting history my mans

What also adds weight to Jones efforts at Carlton was that he was the KPD to one of the worst defensive teams of the modern era. David Teagues Blues attacked at every turn and routinely conceded 100+. Poor old LJizz was quite heroic at times given the circumstances.

Career has been cursed really. KPF in one of the worst offensive teams in modern history (McCartneys Bulldogs) in the first half of his career and then KPD in one of the worst defensive teams.

 

[weltschmerz]

I’m at training. Baz is distressingly tanned and appears to have blond tips in the mullet. Treloar, English, Baz, West, Arty running laps.