Primus - how is the gloss looking

[Rankor]

I don't think we have a chance to get mick as a full time head coach. He said only 2 weeks ago that he won't coach again.

But....

If we can offer him a part time role as coaching director and keep the current coaching panel we may have a chance. He could add alot even in a limited role imo.

 

[Forzaport]

I think Mick Malthouse would make an enormous difference to our club.

To dismiss the whole list as 'honest trier' is a cop out. If they were honest triers they could arguably have won every game they played this year. There are too many players that are being more like dishonest with themselves and not playing to the limit of their ability. Many of them are cruising.

To dismiss the whole list as 'honest trier' is a massive cop out! Glad I haven't seen anyone do that in this thread. FWIW I do think the players are pushing themselves hard, but I also think some are falling into their bad habits which have been festering for years.

Malthouse in terms of the playing list brings an aura that players pay attention to. What he says resonates with them and they would believe in the game plan he would bring. He would know who is really giving it their all and who is there for the lulz and who is there to commit their human endeavour on the field until it is completely exhausted. He knows how to structure the team to produce to its maximum.

I would argue Primus is at least sorting out the players who are committed and the ones there for lulz. While Primus does lack the aura an experienced coach such as Malthouse has, he defends his players and is in turn, respected by the playing group. One thing that is generally agreed upon is that we're not losing for lack of endeavour.

Off field he would make our list known across Australia. How many times have we read in the past few weeks that our players are unrecognisable to the media outside SA? Every media person would pore over our list to assess how Mick is doing and what could he can do to make it better. We would get immense media attention.

He would attract the best assistants because who is better to learn from than Mick Malthouse? The existing coaches would learn more and become even better coaches.

For sure, but so would winning. And one day, maybe Primus will attract the best assistants.

The reality is Primus will probably stay on and we will continue to build up from the bedrock we were digging through. It will take longer than with a Malthouse at the wheel but it will happen. There will still be painful times, but with success we should throw off some of that relative anonymity.

But my view is that the Port Adelaide Board would be exceptionally derelict if it did not sound out Malthouse during the year. All he can do is say no. There's no point assuming the crash position and saying he wouldn't come anyway. It costs nothing to ask and there is so much to be gained. And this year there isn't much competition as so many coaches were appointed last year, while the top teams will stick with their own.

Totally agree. Even if Malthouse didn't want the senior gig, he'd be a terrific addition to our coaching box.

 

[Jonts]

Totally agree. Even if Malthouse didn't want the senior gig, he'd be a terrific addition to our coaching box.

Don't think that would happen, it would be senior gig or nothing at all

EDIT: actually if we chucked him enough money (more than primus) in a ala Hird/Thompson deal perhaps it would happen

 

[tribey]

Malthouse won't leave Victoria. Dude's old, family's over there and they were up him in the last few years about his health/stress levels, etc.

 

[Waspy79]

D Pearce is another. then you have players like Boak, Gray, and a host of others not coming on or being consistent enough as they could be.

I think Pearce peaked 4 seasons ago and expectations on him now are unfair. He's reached his potential, what more can he do? This is exactly why I wanted to off-load him a few seasons ago.

As for Gray and Boak, don't you think the consistency issue might relate to age, inexperience and the lack of quality of player around them? I have no doubt they are both giving 100% for the club when they take the field. Its not an effort issue.

 

[tribey]

^Pearce was good for 20 touches, a goal and a load of inside-50's at a bare minimum.

Him dropping off right as he was expected to go up another level or two coincided with our Cunningham's Warehouse coaching staff coming online overseen by Choczilla incessantly pumping up two blokes Pearce looked up to in the Burgoyne brothers and letting them do as they pleased on cruise control.

Pearce is performing no differently to the standards set under the previous regime.

 

[Ford Fairlane]

To dismiss the whole list as 'honest trier' is a massive cop out! Glad I haven't seen anyone do that in this thread. FWIW I do think the players are pushing themselves hard, but I also think some are falling into their bad habits which have been festering for years.

Yeah I must admit it was your words that prompted that thought and I know it's not what you posted but I think there is a mentality around the place that we can excuse this sort of performance because our list isn't good enough. From talk of honest triers to the call for acquiring more early draft picks to get the best available talent. It all amounts to the same belief.

I even disagree with the notion that the team on Saturday was simply loaded with honest triers. That was close to the best team we could put on the park, there is plenty of talent there and I maintain that enough of them are not being true to themselves. And until they are, they are going to put their jobs and Primus's in peril.

I would argue Primus is at least sorting out the players who are committed and the ones there for lulz. While Primus does lack the aura an experienced coach such as Malthouse has, he defends his players and is in turn, respected by the playing group. One thing that is generally agreed upon is that we're not losing for lack of endeavour.

For sure, but so would winning. And one day, maybe Primus will attract the best assistants.

Yep and I acknowledge the reality is Primus will in all likelihood stay on and we will continue to improve. But you also have to be realistic about coaches. Russell Ebert had what you would think was the ideal coaching pedigree. Champion player, knew all about ultimate personal and team success, coached by Williams, Cahill and Barassi. And yet he won one final in five years as coach of Port Adelaide. He brought a lot of kids through, but the minute he was replaced by John Cahill we started winning premierships. Maybe Cahill was lucky, right place right time, maybe he just had that bit of extra tactical acumen and ability to get that extra 5% out of individual players and a team. Maybe he just knew Port Adelaide better than anyone.

Totally agree. Even if Malthouse didn't want the senior gig, he'd be a terrific addition to our coaching box.

As mentioned above I can't see that he would come here as anything other than senior coach. It's probably a pipe dream but I would still expect Port to ask the question.

 

[Waspy79]

^Pearce was good for 20 touches, a goal and a load of inside-50's at a bare minimum.

Him dropping off right as he was expected to go up another level or two coincided with our Cunningham's Warehouse coaching staff coming online overseen by Choczilla incessantly pumping up two blokes Pearce looked up to in the Burgoyne brothers and letting them do as they pleased on cruise control.

Pearce is performing no differently to the standards set under the previous regime.

I don't like defending Pearce, but he has gone from being a fringe midfielder in a fairly decent team to a key part of the midfield in a very poor team where midfield is the biggest weakness. As a result he now gets far more attention, but has generally maintained the 20, 1 and inside 50 numbers. He's simply not going to offer any more in the current environment. Westhoff is is the guy that really infuriates me, soft, both physically and mentally.

 

[Schulzenfest]

The article misses the point. The problem with O'Brien wasn't the Collingwood scores he generated, it was the potential Port Adelaide scores he prevented.

 

[Forzaport]

The article misses the point. The problem with O'Brien wasn't the Collingwood scores he generated, it was the potential Port Adelaide scores he prevented.

That is discussed at the end of the article.

 

[DonDraper]

Wayne Carey made a point about how it's more so a coaching group as a whole that should be looked at, not just the senior coach, when dissecting poor moves during a game. Surely someone in our box could see that Harry O as the loose man was killing us and that we were desperate for Wingard to come on?

Is it Primus who makes that decision? Or can the power come from any coach in the box?

 

[tribey]

The article misses the point. The problem with O'Brien wasn't the Collingwood scores he generated, it was the potential Port Adelaide scores he prevented.

According to Champion Data Harry had 2 goal assists as it was, which makes Primus' stated defence of his (lack of) tactics even more... interesting.

 

[240volt]

It's obvious to me that Matty has adopted a very defensive game plan this year which if persisted with will give us few wins and many respectable losses. It would also mean we finish 12th to 15th and that's not acceptable for a club like Port and with the list we have.

Any other Port coach would have been sacked at the end of 2011 season after such a disastrous and "un-Port Adelaide" like display. However because of the lack of assistants or coaching support last year, he was allowed to continue and rightly so and I supported that. He's a good bloke, great Port man and former captain. He desrved another go with appropriate support and he's got it this year.

As much as I like Primus the man, there can be no excuses from Primus the coach if Port does not make the 8 or knock on the door of the 8 this year. We can not take another risk with Primus in 2013 if we finish well out of the race for the top 8 in 2012. It will have a detrimental effect on our already fragile membership base and another poor season in 2013 would make it harder for Port to keep Trengove and Butcher at the end of that year.
.

This is as good as i have read on B.F for a long time.

 

[b0ydman]

I think you can make the argument that Collingwood took their foot off the accelerator

yes, maxwell said a few times that they took their foot off the pedal. or said they took their foot off the pedal a few times, one or the other

either way, no question they were playing tempo in the final quarter

 

[b0ydman]

Our #1 issues is disposal into the forward fifty. Our structure isn't right and our delivery to our forwards is abysmal.

Lost count of the time we kicked to their spare man - which doesn't bother me when kicking blindly - but we had times with 10 seconds to assess our delivery and still bombed it straight over the unmanned Collingwood player

Aside from that I am pretty much happy with our coaching.

red is 100% agreement

blue is too

black bold, i dont really see why you still support him. isn;t that the house and game plan that primus built? also we've seen this a few times now

what about accountability to the plan?
what about playing the right players for that plan
what about having smaller players in the forward line to recover from poor delivery?

isnt this back where we were with choco- "his was a brilliant plan but he didnt have the right players to execute his master stroke?"

what game plan can you see that you are happy with?

+29

 

[b0ydman]

Wayne Carey made a point about how it's more so a coaching group as a whole that should be looked at, not just the senior coach, when dissecting poor moves during a game. Surely someone in our box could see that Harry O as the loose man was killing us and that we were desperate for Wingard to come on?

Is it Primus who makes that decision? Or can the power come from any coach in the box?

This is it for me tho

This for mine is THE defining moment

He is coach. HE is coach. HE selects his assistants

IF after the game he discovers they weren't on the job or didn't tell him what they should have- There is the door.

These aren't rocket science moves we're talking here. Wingard, Kane position and Obrien, and a small in the F50

2 issues are why would we excuse the head coach of an AFL team NOT seeing what every person at the grou...oh heck, we all know we all saw it and it was obvious for so long

how did he miss it, how did the coaches miss it?


FORD F said

>>>>I even disagree with the notion that the team on Saturday was simply loaded with honest triers. That was close to the best team we could put on the park, there is plenty of talent there and I maintain that enough of them are not being true to themselves. And until they are, they are going to put their jobs and Primus' in peril.

No. And this relates to the above

They are not putting Primus' job in peril, PRIMUS is letting them put his job in peril. Very small differentiation, very big difference

The rest of that Ford post was 100% spot on

IMO Primus is the MD. Either he is riding roughshot over his assistants and they are afraid to challenge the obvious to him, or they are all missing it

Either way, it needs the Chairman and Board to ask what is going on.

A company rots from its board down, as is our club

I see the failings of Primus as extremely similar as under Choco. Same jam, different flies

I appreciate that he shields and appears to excuse the players, but aside from Rodan I don't yet have confidence he is making either himself, his assistants or his players accountable.

+30

 

[Natman]

The article misses the point. The problem with O'Brien wasn't the Collingwood scores he generated, it was the potential Port Adelaide scores he prevented.

The only reason he was able to get the defensive possessions that he did was because of the poor/pathetic disposal by the mids to the forward 'quadrangle of doom'.

All he had to do was stand there and our guys were attracted to him like moths to a flame. Weird by our mids - that's got nothing to do with coaching or tactics, it's just plain old excecution.

 

[tribey]

The only reason he was able to get the defensive possessions that he did was because of the poor/pathetic disposal by the mids to the forward 'quadrangle of doom'.

All he had to do was stand there and our guys were attracted to him like moths to a flame. Weird by our mids - that's got nothing to do with coaching or tactics, it's just plain old excecution.

Hmmmmm.

 

[Schulzenfest]

Weird by our mids - that's got nothing to do with coaching or tactics, it's just plain old excecution.

Leaving him as the loose man initially, maybe not. But after he'd been tearing us up as a loose man for a whole quarter, whether due to execution or not, the coach should have done something about it rather than blindly hoping the execution will suddenly get better. Primus took another quarter or so to make the move that had obviously needed to be made for a while before he made it.

If the tactics aren't working, then you change them. If he's not able to do that even when it's glaringly obvious to us keyboard warriors that a change needs to be amde then he may as well sit at home and let the players sort themselves out during the game.

 

[Waspy79]

Primus failed on the weekend, most people here think that, most people in the media think it too. Would just be nice to hear Matty come out and say he made a few mistakes as coach, at least then we know he is thinking about his coaching rather than blindly persisting with one stubborn strategy. The only reason I could think that he might not do this (other than the fact he is ignorant to it) is it might take some heat off the players.

 

[Natman]

Leaving him as the loose man initially, maybe not. But after he'd been tearing us up as a loose man for a whole quarter, whether due to execution or not, the coach should have done something about it rather than blindly hoping the execution will suddenly get better. Primus took another quarter or so to make the move that had obviously needed to be made for a while before he made it.

If the tactics aren't working, then you change them. If he's not able to do that even when it's glaringly obvious to us keyboard warriors that a change needs to be amde then he may as well sit at home and let the players sort themselves out during the game.

Yes - and didn't he say that they did change tactics by putting Westy behind the ball and that put us back with a chance.

And I don't buy the bit about Collingwood easing up in the second quarter - not team does (or should not do) that - maybe the last quarter with a bit of end to end stuff, but definitely not the second.

I think sometimes that our supporters actually, secretly are hoping that Primus fails, so that we can get a 'sexy' coach. Sorry, peoples, it ain't gonna happen - well not until we get a bit of respect back into the club. Just look at our recent media, profile and perceptions outside of the club - FFS, South Adelaide gets more publicity than we do.

 

[QPower]

It's obvious to me that Matty has adopted a very defensive game plan this year which if persisted with will give us few wins and many respectable losses. It would also mean we finish 12th to 15th and that's not acceptable for a club like Port and with the list we have.

I heard Malthouse the other day saying that when a playing group lacks a defensive mindset you need to focus on that above all else because the offensive side of the game comes more easily to players as the first instinct is to get your hands on the footy.

Port has manifestly lacked defensive intent for years and Primus is working hard to restore it.

 

[Phhht]

Yes - and didn't he say that they did change tactics by putting Westy behind the ball and that put us back with a chance.

And I don't buy the bit about Collingwood easing up in the second quarter - not team does (or should not do) that - maybe the last quarter with a bit of end to end stuff, but definitely not the second.

I think sometimes that our supporters actually, secretly are hoping that Primus fails, so that we can get a 'sexy' coach. Sorry, peoples, it ain't gonna happen - well not until we get a bit of respect back into the club. Just look at our recent media, profile and perceptions outside of the club - FFS, South Adelaide gets more publicity than we do.

Whilst I apportion quite a bit of blame towards our mids delivery, I also have to question Primus in this situation as well. I believed it was one of our goals to learn how to stop run ons. Why couldn't Primus change our strategic game plan after the pies were beginning to dominate in the 1st quarter rather than wait until they were 5 goals down.
Would it not have been a better teaching experience to have everyone go man-on-man after they got 3 goals up?
We could then implement our original game plan again if he needed to, change from man-on-man to another strategy without having to comeback from 38 points or whatever it was?

As I mentioned previously, I get the distinct impression that Matty coaches by statistics. Only issue is that by the time the stats guy in the box tells him that such and such isn't working we are 38 points down.

 

[Dalphonso]

If we beat Adelaide this week Matty will be hailed as a tactitional genius of Einsteinesque proportions

 

[PAUR]

Yes - and didn't he say that they did change tactics by putting Westy behind the ball and that put us back with a chance.

And I don't buy the bit about Collingwood easing up in the second quarter - not team does (or should not do) that - maybe the last quarter with a bit of end to end stuff, but definitely not the second.

I think sometimes that our supporters actually, secretly are hoping that Primus fails, so that we can get a 'sexy' coach. Sorry, peoples, it ain't gonna happen - well not until we get a bit of respect back into the club. Just look at our recent media, profile and perceptions outside of the club - FFS, South Adelaide gets more publicity than we do.

Correct.

Still, Primus lost the game in the 1st quarter and bar that won the game. He isn't a bad coach, he's still learning as well. I'm personally happy with our year so far and people should give Primus some credit.

I think the calls for manning up O'brien are over the top - clearly the coaches could see him. I posted earlier our I50 delivery was shocking and this was the main reason we lost.