hawkman
Hall of Famer
Imagine if Robbo got to decide this year's premier
-
AFLW 2024 - Round 9 - Indigenous Round - Chat, game threads, injury lists, team lineups and more.
Proposal to include premierships dating back to 1870 gathering pace
- Thread starter MelbourneGWS
- Start date
- Tagged users None
- Oct 25, 2001
- 14,515
- 11,875
- AFL Club
- Collingwood
- Other Teams
- IOM Gyms, Preston Nth End
FMD if it was Cornes and Hoyne last year Pies would have been out in straight sets, Melbourne premiers.
- Oct 30, 2014
- 4,898
- 9,888
- AFL Club
- Western Bulldogs
It is still there in football history. No one is saying it is or should be erased or needs to be restored. It is recognised for what it was, a colonial time competition. It just can’t possibly be counted in the AFL premierships tally. It was a completey different competition, with completely different formats, not just a name change like 1989-1990. Sorry this is flawed argument.
.
- Feb 12, 2017
- 18,786
- 49,753
- AFL Club
- Geelong
Keep at it, Col! 
Literally what difference does it make? It doesn’t change who won anything. Does it mean that you have to clap for longer for Geelong or Sydney? Do you have to doff your hat to their supporters?
It literally doesn’t change anything. This doesn’t matter. Go outside, have a look at some trees or something
It literally doesn’t change anything. This doesn’t matter. Go outside, have a look at some trees or something
“doff your hat”. Love it!
Parasite
Norm Smith Medallist
I ain’t reading this thread, but happy to accept the 51 Fremantle/South Fremantle/East Fremantle WAFL premierships into the AFL record books.
Taper
Club Legend
- Jun 9, 2023
- 1,815
- 2,278
- AFL Club
- Geelong
This is great initiative by Carlton to recognise their entire history, rather than just their history in this competition.
We need to do the same and update our trophy cabinet at Kardinia Park.
I can understand the thinking of the clubs, journalists and supporters in the early years of the VFL breakaway that they still counted their flags in the VFA and before it.
Imagine if in 2025 - Adelaide, Brisbane, Carlton, ,Geelong, Hawthorn, Melbourne, North Melbourne, Richmond, Sydney and West Coast break out from the AFL and start a new League OSAFL (Old School AFL).
The AFL still continues and are bitter rivals.
Pretty hard to go back to 0 Premierships even that is the official stats in the new League.
Past glories from the AFL days maybe printed 20-30 years after the break-away but eventually they will rightly be erased in the OSAFL because it has nothing to do with the AFL.
Sorry for the mumbled up words… but you get what I’m trying to point out?
Imagine if in 2025 - Adelaide, Brisbane, Carlton, ,Geelong, Hawthorn, Melbourne, North Melbourne, Richmond, Sydney and West Coast break out from the AFL and start a new League OSAFL (Old School AFL).
The AFL still continues and are bitter rivals.
Pretty hard to go back to 0 Premierships even that is the official stats in the new League.
Past glories from the AFL days maybe printed 20-30 years after the break-away but eventually they will rightly be erased in the OSAFL because it has nothing to do with the AFL.
Sorry for the mumbled up words… but you get what I’m trying to point out?
- May 21, 2015
- 4,603
- 6,931
- AFL Club
- Richmond
Seeing as Geelong has left the league multiple times we can't count any of their history before 1944
Toucan Soup
Team Captain
- Mar 22, 2006
- 407
- 473
- AFL Club
- Brisbane Lions
Have to agree with the words of terrybull
By acknowledging the premiers of the previous VFA competition, it would present an element of gravitas or significance (perhaps even some prestige) to the fledgling VFL which had no real history of its own to report in the early years.
Once the VFL was firmly established, and the VFA history had served its purpose, then it could be dropped with solely VFL information (particularly premierships) retained.
By acknowledging the premiers of the previous VFA competition, it would present an element of gravitas or significance (perhaps even some prestige) to the fledgling VFL which had no real history of its own to report in the early years.
Once the VFL was firmly established, and the VFA history had served its purpose, then it could be dropped with solely VFL information (particularly premierships) retained.
Clubs are free to include premierships from any competition in their history - but that doesn't mean they equate to the same thing as a national cup
SANFL
WAFL
VFA
VFL
AFL
(VFL/AFL can be combined)
Ie Port Adelaide should include their SANFL premierships in their combined tally - but it's not the same as their AFL premiership - of which they have 1.
And Melbourne is welcome to include their historic state league premierships - but it's not the same as their AFL premiership - of which they also have 1.
Combined VFL/AFL tallys are ok - it's a continuous competition - but old premierships should not be referred to as AFL premierships without the "VFL" reference.
SANFL
WAFL
VFA
VFL
AFL
(VFL/AFL can be combined)
Ie Port Adelaide should include their SANFL premierships in their combined tally - but it's not the same as their AFL premiership - of which they have 1.
And Melbourne is welcome to include their historic state league premierships - but it's not the same as their AFL premiership - of which they also have 1.
Combined VFL/AFL tallys are ok - it's a continuous competition - but old premierships should not be referred to as AFL premierships without the "VFL" reference.
- Sep 22, 2011
- 41,942
- 91,611
- AFL Club
- Essendon
Bit of an interesting one here, a Twitter thread to read if you’re so inclined…
Carter pushed this hard and even tried to get it verified by the Guiness Book of World Records.
It then gets repeated as fact all over the place.
It’s just simply untrue.
This seems to be Carter’s MO - trying to misrepresent history to give his own cause a nice marketing spin. He does it with this Ford sponsorship and he’s trying to do it with the history of football to suit Geelong.
Carter pushed this hard and even tried to get it verified by the Guiness Book of World Records.
It then gets repeated as fact all over the place.
It’s just simply untrue.
This seems to be Carter’s MO - trying to misrepresent history to give his own cause a nice marketing spin. He does it with this Ford sponsorship and he’s trying to do it with the history of football to suit Geelong.
StackedHunch
Senior List
- Aug 17, 2016
- 259
- 597
- AFL Club
- Hawthorn
Amazing the lengths a man will go to in order to present a historically middle of the road club as successful.
- Sep 6, 2011
- 13,818
- 22,336
- AFL Club
- Hawthorn
- Other Teams
- GWS (Kayo) Also AFL Member so all clubs
Cats will change it to 'only flags from 2000 onwards count' if they win the flag this year
Where does it say it's not true?
- Oct 25, 2001
- 14,515
- 11,875
- AFL Club
- Collingwood
- Other Teams
- IOM Gyms, Preston Nth End
"The Forgotten Years" [not actually forgotten]: "Reclaiming" [inventing] "the AFLs" [there was no AFL at that time] "Competition's" [not actually a single competition, conflates 2 and there were many others he ignores] "Earliest Era 1870-1896" [not actually the earliest era].
This bungfoodling ninny can't even complete the title of his book without getting it 100% wrong.
Can Colin please write another book: 'The Dank years, 2006-2010: how a bunch of their players went bald and grew the biggest mf muscles you ever saw".
This bungfoodling ninny can't even complete the title of his book without getting it 100% wrong.
Can Colin please write another book: 'The Dank years, 2006-2010: how a bunch of their players went bald and grew the biggest mf muscles you ever saw".
- Sep 3, 2019
- 20,735
- 60,995
- AFL Club
- Collingwood
Its vitally important to add weight to Bigfooty shit fights to assert dominance
Didn't the AFL commission Carter to write a report on the viability of a Tasmanian team?
Sure hope he wasn't as loose with reality about that as he is with these other topics.
Sure hope he wasn't as loose with reality about that as he is with these other topics.
- May 5, 2016
- 46,116
- 51,661
- AFL Club
- Geelong
To be fair, for starters:
- it isn’t ‘his’ Wikipedia page. I dare say a cats fan, like almost all Wikipedia pages has put that together. So attributing it to him or the club is as loose with reality as any claim of his.
- he has actually done the right thing in at least seeking to have the claim verified by GWR. I don’t doubt that he’s traded off it for years and spruiked it but it seems what he’s said is that it is ‘believed’ to be and then he’s tried to get it confirmed.
- I’m sure at some stage somebody would have made him aware of sports teams born out of companies who maintain that link but he would have traded off the technicality of sponsorship between a club and a company rather than maybe ownership or creation etc.
As far as the premiership thing goes, I don’t think there is any need to question someone’s relationship with reality. You either agree with the stance that the VFA was at that stage the top tier competition and the flags won then should count, or you don’t.
I personally don’t, others do. I don’t think it’s a sign of his adherence to sanity.
- Nov 10, 2022
- 11,979
- 9,803
- AFL Club
- Hawthorn
VFA flags included in early vfl records but dropped after a couple of decades
SURELY it’s time to drop VFL flags from the AFL tally
As noted, clubs themselves can document all their successes
By the way, Footscray 10 VFA flags, but did yet join VFL till 1925. How are those treat
SURELY it’s time to drop VFL flags from the AFL tally
As noted, clubs themselves can document all their successes
By the way, Footscray 10 VFA flags, but did yet join VFL till 1925. How are those treat
Last edited:
Obviously no one is stating Carter owns the Wikipedia page. The following link is a speech he gave, including in the company of the current Prime Minister. "I also acknowledge all of our sponsors – and in particular our major sponsor Ford and chief executive, Bob Graziano. Ford has supported our club for 88 years in what is the longest running sports sponsorship in the world." https://www.geelongcats.com.au/news/116687/presidents-speech
See above. You've inserted the word 'believed', Carter himself stated it as fact.
Why does that matter? Why is that a technicality? Another example of being loose with reality if he knew of those clubs and still touted the line about Ford and Geelong.
The reality is that the VFA is a different competition to the VFL/AFL. That's not an opinion, it's fact. The byline of his book reads "Reclaiming the AFL Competition’s earliest years―1870 to 1896". Simply stated, it wasn't the AFL (/VFL) competition so to claim the AFL Competition's earliest years were from 1870, as he has done, is disingenuous.
