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R11: Port v Carlton review
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tribey
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What can you say?
I actually turned to a m8 and said "this feels like the Brisbane game" late in the third quarter and he laughed at me. I thought about it and gave myself a mental slap for it.
40-45 minutes later I'm once again walking across the West Lakes Mall carpark in shock, which was quickly being replaced by disgust - just as before.
Then in the car on the way home, we finally get to hear Chocolate's presser - and one of the first things he mentions is the trip to Subi the week before, "I don't want to use it as an excuse, but some people will mention it." Then he goes on to mention it 2 or 3 more times when someone asked about fitness levels at three-quarter time.
Then another journo asks about Chad. "Well, it was his worst performance ever, but he was injured".
Yes, he's played the last two weeks injured. Clearly hampered. No excuse whatsoever, you're continuing to pick him.
The buck's not stopping anytime soon, by the sounds of it.
I actually turned to a m8 and said "this feels like the Brisbane game" late in the third quarter and he laughed at me. I thought about it and gave myself a mental slap for it.
40-45 minutes later I'm once again walking across the West Lakes Mall carpark in shock, which was quickly being replaced by disgust - just as before.
Then in the car on the way home, we finally get to hear Chocolate's presser - and one of the first things he mentions is the trip to Subi the week before, "I don't want to use it as an excuse, but some people will mention it." Then he goes on to mention it 2 or 3 more times when someone asked about fitness levels at three-quarter time.
Then another journo asks about Chad. "Well, it was his worst performance ever, but he was injured".
Yes, he's played the last two weeks injured. Clearly hampered. No excuse whatsoever, you're continuing to pick him.
The buck's not stopping anytime soon, by the sounds of it.
Choko magic, yet again.
"We know that others will use the Subi excuse for us........"
Oh, Mark, are you that stupid? No-one, is going to make excuses for you. That was him providing pathetic excuses, immediately after claiming that's what he wouldn't be doing.
Then later, Rucci points out the obvious: we have the wrong mix of players out there. So Choko replies that the problem is that we are missing JB and Ebo.
Mark, Mark, Mark..........
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Look, no disrespect to Krak, but he made four or five really shit efforts tonight as well as making poor decisions regarding disposal. He is miles away from being an AFL first teamer and needs at least the rest of the year in the SNAFFLE and another full preseason before he's back in.
But,
Fully expecting him to keep his place for another week of meh given Stewart and Thurstans' injuries as well as maybe Pearce to go, just because he seems to be in the good books.
Thomson isn't.
Thomson has always had to smash the door down with Magarey Medal form at Sturt before getting a look-in, before it's a couple of weeks of very solid performances interspersed with ridiculous pine-time until he's inevitably dropped for no truly justifiable reason.
And let's not talk about Nick Lower. That poor kid must be resigned to the fact he's either moving interstate at the end of the year or spending the rest of his life as an elite SNAFFLE player who never got the big break he deserved.
Forzaport
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Francou was spot on in his assessment on 5aa - he sounds so good on radio, yet writes bullshit articles...
He said chad needs to play on ball mainly because we have no one else - you can bandy about names like thomson, lower etc, but they don't have motors, marks or kicks like chad. It sucks that we're robbing peter to pay paul (as the said on 5aa).
From what i've heard, club doctors think stewart is ok but sent him to hospital to be on the safe side.
My take on this game is best summed up by dean brogan; as the players were walking down the race after the game he said: "Are we weak? Are we ____ing weak???"
He said chad needs to play on ball mainly because we have no one else - you can bandy about names like thomson, lower etc, but they don't have motors, marks or kicks like chad. It sucks that we're robbing peter to pay paul (as the said on 5aa).
From what i've heard, club doctors think stewart is ok but sent him to hospital to be on the safe side.
My take on this game is best summed up by dean brogan; as the players were walking down the race after the game he said: "Are we weak? Are we ____ing weak???"
Today's performance was an absolute disgrace. We simply choked again and we can not offer any more excuses.
Choco talked about the "long trip back from WA" in press conference but that's a cop out. It has been proven all season that we are not physically fit. It is obvious also that our current team does not have yesteryears "Port Adelaide" mentally and are fragile.
We need to make the obvious changes and bring in Junior Burger, Thomas, Thomson and Lower but we also need to have a tall, strong, mobile, pack crashing key forward to aim at who can also keep the ball in the area. That player we should promote is Cockshell - he was best on ground for Norwood yesterday and my Norwood mates tell me he has been reasonable all year. Ebert, Motlop, Westoff are either small or light framed and Tredders can't do the bullocking work any more.
I would make 5 changes this week to send a strong message to the rest of the team.
In: Thomas, Cockshell, Lower, Thomson and S. Burgoyne.
Out: Thurstans, Gray, Logan, Stewart, Krackour
Choco talked about the "long trip back from WA" in press conference but that's a cop out. It has been proven all season that we are not physically fit. It is obvious also that our current team does not have yesteryears "Port Adelaide" mentally and are fragile.
We need to make the obvious changes and bring in Junior Burger, Thomas, Thomson and Lower but we also need to have a tall, strong, mobile, pack crashing key forward to aim at who can also keep the ball in the area. That player we should promote is Cockshell - he was best on ground for Norwood yesterday and my Norwood mates tell me he has been reasonable all year. Ebert, Motlop, Westoff are either small or light framed and Tredders can't do the bullocking work any more.
I would make 5 changes this week to send a strong message to the rest of the team.
In: Thomas, Cockshell, Lower, Thomson and S. Burgoyne.
Out: Thurstans, Gray, Logan, Stewart, Krackour
You could tell we were going to lose when Higgins beat 3 of our players (Logan, Kornes and someone else) to a contested ball and thumped it clear to set up a goal.
We can't move forward until we publicly acknowledge that we are chokers.
Hate to say it, but crowds will continue to dwindle/not care if we keep serving this up. As a fan, you have to emotionally protect yourselves against this, having no control and all.
We can't move forward until we publicly acknowledge that we are chokers.
Hate to say it, but crowds will continue to dwindle/not care if we keep serving this up. As a fan, you have to emotionally protect yourselves against this, having no control and all.
Macca19
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I dont know what to write to be honest. You could deal with that once, maybe twice....but this shit just keeps on happening over and over and ____ing over again.
Im extremely angry, im dissapointed, im shattered. I feel sick in the stomach. I feel like I should be in tears. How the ____ can we keep doing this over and over? AND AT HOME?
At the moment our football club deserves all the abuse and laughter headed our way. We deserved to be mocked. What come back do we have?
Is it choking? I dont know if its choking. Its more like complete mental and physical capitulation. Its the second time this year where we have pretty much been all over a team for 80% of the first three quarters and been completely unable to get the ball anywhere near our forward lines in the last quarter. Our centre square were smashed to pieces. I dont blame the defence. The likes of Chaplin, Carlile and Pettigrew ran themselves to exhaustion trying to make contest after contest as the ball came into our forward line like it was WWII all over agian. They did as best as they could with the situation handed to them by our crumbling midfield division. The one exception was Thurstans, who yet again, was shown to be the crab that he has become. With the other three talls spoiling as much as they could, Toby was nowhere near Kruezer in that last quarter. Not even close to him. I really couldnt be ____ed driving down for games if this crab plays another game for our club.
Our fitness just has to be an issue and the clown that left us has a lot to answer for. In 05 our fitness was a disgrace. In 06 it was worse. This year its gone back to that level again. He was with us for three and a bit years and we are considerably worse off than weve ever been.
The signs were on the wall in each of the three quarters. Had Carlton kicked straight it would have been a different story in the first half. The fact in 20 minutes they kicked over double the goals they did in the previous 60 leaves me speechless.
Enough of the bullshit from our coaching staff and players. It is plainly obvious we have serious mental virus affecting our playing group. Where does it stem from? Weve always seemed to crumble under pressure so it is an extension from that? Or is it the disgraceful Grand Final result that has pushed our players into their mental shell? Its not just being overrun by a better side in a tight game...its complete mental capitulation when the contest should be over. Why are our players so susceptible to opposition momentum?
Even though Carlton had kicked two or three goals to get back into it when Stewart went off, the turning point of the match came after that. Gray really should have goaled that shot but it was Salopek on the 50...as others have mentioned that completely changed the shape of the match. The thing that I was screaming relentlessly at was the fact we had Tredrea one out and Westhoff alone in the goalsquare. Why the ____ would you kick across goal to an unfavourable 2 on 1 contest? They went down straight away and goaled and that was the game. As soon as that happened we were shot.
We have a whole bunch of supposed big name players but where the hell were they when it counted? Chad played just about the most pointless game of football hes ever played. He was nowhere to be seen. Kane was thrashed in that last quarter. Dom was thrashed. Tredrea was nowhere. Motlop couldnt get near it.
Put Thomas back in. Give ____ing Lower a goddamn chance...someone that can play a shutdown role, a big body, a disposal accumulator....give the kid a bloody chance...AND GET THOMSON - SOMEONE THAT CAN ACTUALLY WIN THE FOOTBALL INTO THE SIDE.
In all honestly, Mark has a lot to answer for. Enough of the protection of the players. Enough of diverting the media away from it. Enough of the bullshit 'best losing team ever' garbage. Swallow your ____ing pride, stand up, be accountable, get rid of the crabs that continuously let us down in these situations and let it be known. Enough of the protection. If I hear Mark or any players mollycoddle or try and divert attention from our choking this week then ill ____ing vomit. IT ISNT GOOD ENOUGH FOR OUR FOOTBALL CLUB. If you cant change this, if youve had enough of coaching our club, if you dont have the hunger anymore then for godsake step aside and give someone a go thats willing to make the hard calls, because its becoming obvious that you arent willing to.
Make a ____ing stand.
Im extremely angry, im dissapointed, im shattered. I feel sick in the stomach. I feel like I should be in tears. How the ____ can we keep doing this over and over? AND AT HOME?
At the moment our football club deserves all the abuse and laughter headed our way. We deserved to be mocked. What come back do we have?
Is it choking? I dont know if its choking. Its more like complete mental and physical capitulation. Its the second time this year where we have pretty much been all over a team for 80% of the first three quarters and been completely unable to get the ball anywhere near our forward lines in the last quarter. Our centre square were smashed to pieces. I dont blame the defence. The likes of Chaplin, Carlile and Pettigrew ran themselves to exhaustion trying to make contest after contest as the ball came into our forward line like it was WWII all over agian. They did as best as they could with the situation handed to them by our crumbling midfield division. The one exception was Thurstans, who yet again, was shown to be the crab that he has become. With the other three talls spoiling as much as they could, Toby was nowhere near Kruezer in that last quarter. Not even close to him. I really couldnt be ____ed driving down for games if this crab plays another game for our club.
Our fitness just has to be an issue and the clown that left us has a lot to answer for. In 05 our fitness was a disgrace. In 06 it was worse. This year its gone back to that level again. He was with us for three and a bit years and we are considerably worse off than weve ever been.
The signs were on the wall in each of the three quarters. Had Carlton kicked straight it would have been a different story in the first half. The fact in 20 minutes they kicked over double the goals they did in the previous 60 leaves me speechless.
Enough of the bullshit from our coaching staff and players. It is plainly obvious we have serious mental virus affecting our playing group. Where does it stem from? Weve always seemed to crumble under pressure so it is an extension from that? Or is it the disgraceful Grand Final result that has pushed our players into their mental shell? Its not just being overrun by a better side in a tight game...its complete mental capitulation when the contest should be over. Why are our players so susceptible to opposition momentum?
Even though Carlton had kicked two or three goals to get back into it when Stewart went off, the turning point of the match came after that. Gray really should have goaled that shot but it was Salopek on the 50...as others have mentioned that completely changed the shape of the match. The thing that I was screaming relentlessly at was the fact we had Tredrea one out and Westhoff alone in the goalsquare. Why the ____ would you kick across goal to an unfavourable 2 on 1 contest? They went down straight away and goaled and that was the game. As soon as that happened we were shot.
We have a whole bunch of supposed big name players but where the hell were they when it counted? Chad played just about the most pointless game of football hes ever played. He was nowhere to be seen. Kane was thrashed in that last quarter. Dom was thrashed. Tredrea was nowhere. Motlop couldnt get near it.
Put Thomas back in. Give ____ing Lower a goddamn chance...someone that can play a shutdown role, a big body, a disposal accumulator....give the kid a bloody chance...AND GET THOMSON - SOMEONE THAT CAN ACTUALLY WIN THE FOOTBALL INTO THE SIDE.
In all honestly, Mark has a lot to answer for. Enough of the protection of the players. Enough of diverting the media away from it. Enough of the bullshit 'best losing team ever' garbage. Swallow your ____ing pride, stand up, be accountable, get rid of the crabs that continuously let us down in these situations and let it be known. Enough of the protection. If I hear Mark or any players mollycoddle or try and divert attention from our choking this week then ill ____ing vomit. IT ISNT GOOD ENOUGH FOR OUR FOOTBALL CLUB. If you cant change this, if youve had enough of coaching our club, if you dont have the hunger anymore then for godsake step aside and give someone a go thats willing to make the hard calls, because its becoming obvious that you arent willing to.
Make a ____ing stand.
I don't understand why, when play was finally halted in the last quarter that the team didn't go into a huddle. That was the perfect time to regroup.
The other thing I don't understand is the long succession of shocking skill errors and poor decision making not only in the last quarter but right from early on in the match. Like Macca I'm just too angry to think clearly.
Whatever, the season if now officially f___ed. Let's have a look at some of the fringe players.
The one consolation for me was the job done by Carlile. He's confirmed what a quality player we have.
The other thing I don't understand is the long succession of shocking skill errors and poor decision making not only in the last quarter but right from early on in the match. Like Macca I'm just too angry to think clearly.
Whatever, the season if now officially f___ed. Let's have a look at some of the fringe players.
The one consolation for me was the job done by Carlile. He's confirmed what a quality player we have.
Macca19
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Choko magic, yet again.
"We know that others will use the Subi excuse for us........"
Oh, Mark, are you that stupid? No-one, is going to make excuses for you. That was him providing pathetic excuses, immediately after claiming that's what he wouldn't be doing.
Then later, Rucci points out the obvious: we have the wrong mix of players out there. So Choko replies that the problem is that we are missing JB and Ebo.
Mark, Mark, Mark..........
Excuse me while I vomit.
How ____ing clueless can one man be?
Hes obviously become disinterested in coaching us.
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On the game i seriously dont understand how we could of lost it. Carlton kicked three goals in 3 quarters and myself and my dad were ceratin Carlton would kick just the 1 in the Last. But then came 2 then 3 and so on in a row. I knew we were in trouble but as the passionate supporter i am i didnt give up hope but we lost in the end. Our supporters do deserve better then this. I would love if Mark Williams sat with each player one on one and talk to them about their game this year. Whats gone wrong and how you can improve would be two top questions. Choco needs to do the hard stuff and he has to do it NOW.
On the game i seriously dont understand how we could of lost it. Carlton kicked three goals in 3 quarters and myself and my dad were ceratin Carlton would kick just the 1 in the Last. But then came 2 then 3 and so on in a row. I knew we were in trouble but as the passionate supporter i am i didnt give up hope but we lost in the end. Our supporters do deserve better then this. I would love if Mark Williams sat with each player one on one and talk to them about their game this year. Whats gone wrong and how you can improve would be two top questions. Choco needs to do the hard stuff and he has to do it NOW.
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I would like them to be honest with the supporters. Keeping everything in house isn't going to take the heat off of anyone
I'm sure you don't want comments from opposition supporters but I'll have my say anyway. Having watched most Port home games live this season I just feel too many players go missing when they get tired and perhaps can't run out the game. To me you have too many talls down back meaning you miss one out of the midfield rotation.
If I was Choco I'd flog the players out there tonight at the main training session during the week. After flogging them I'd bring on the rest of the squad (plus some ring ins) who would be fresh and play a scrach match against the main squad. They need practice playing under pressure and when tired. Probably can't do it due to player management and perhaps wouldn't solve much but would at least give them a chance to test things out when the players are physically and mentally tired.
All is not lost just yet.
If I was Choco I'd flog the players out there tonight at the main training session during the week. After flogging them I'd bring on the rest of the squad (plus some ring ins) who would be fresh and play a scrach match against the main squad. They need practice playing under pressure and when tired. Probably can't do it due to player management and perhaps wouldn't solve much but would at least give them a chance to test things out when the players are physically and mentally tired.
All is not lost just yet.
He needs motivation, like 2004. If you threaten to replace him he will win us another premiership. He seems to like proving people wrong.
BlueStreak
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Give Gibbs some credit mate...he was our best player over 4 qtrs
Missing Shaun Burgoynes really showed....that guy oozes class and composure
I said to my wife during the game I won't think we're home till we are five goals up with 20 seconds left. She just replied along the lines of she's just waiting for Port to stuff up. And I'm the cynic of the pair of us
The game was of a crap standard from the start. Gettable goals missed left and right by both sides for 3 quarters, with it more a case of Port ok, Carlton crap then Port showing any class.
As for the last quarter, like almost everyone here as soon as they got the first couple if you'd had to bet your house on who'd win I'd have backed the Blues, despite still 18 points up at that stage.
Williams needs a board that will stand up to him. McGuiness has to go from the box, and I like Kingsley, but we need more strong willed assistants with no ties to Choco if he's to remain and have his egotistical tendencies tempered enough that his good side can show through, he's the other most expendable assistant.
The same crap though in the last as every game we lose it from a winning position. Thurstans woeful, our midfield can't win a clearance for their life, our forwards get shot after shot yet can't kick for shit and their defensive pressure to keep it locked in is sub-standard to boot. I'll be there again next time, but they are making it a ____ing chore, not a pleasure.
The game was of a crap standard from the start. Gettable goals missed left and right by both sides for 3 quarters, with it more a case of Port ok, Carlton crap then Port showing any class.
As for the last quarter, like almost everyone here as soon as they got the first couple if you'd had to bet your house on who'd win I'd have backed the Blues, despite still 18 points up at that stage.
Williams needs a board that will stand up to him. McGuiness has to go from the box, and I like Kingsley, but we need more strong willed assistants with no ties to Choco if he's to remain and have his egotistical tendencies tempered enough that his good side can show through, he's the other most expendable assistant.
The same crap though in the last as every game we lose it from a winning position. Thurstans woeful, our midfield can't win a clearance for their life, our forwards get shot after shot yet can't kick for shit and their defensive pressure to keep it locked in is sub-standard to boot. I'll be there again next time, but they are making it a ____ing chore, not a pleasure.
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Where we lost today is the same as where we lost every other time this year.
Come last quarter our midfield was spent and today we lost two of our backs as well.
Problem is with the midfield and only the midfield. Are they not fit enough? Is the gameplan too tough for them to keep it up for 4 quarters? Are there too many youngsters?
Dunno what the reason is but the problem is there and nowhere else, today, last few weeks and last GF. Stop blaming backs and forwards. It's either our midfielders (for whatever reason), coach (one or more) or fitness staff.
Come last quarter our midfield was spent and today we lost two of our backs as well.
Problem is with the midfield and only the midfield. Are they not fit enough? Is the gameplan too tough for them to keep it up for 4 quarters? Are there too many youngsters?
Dunno what the reason is but the problem is there and nowhere else, today, last few weeks and last GF. Stop blaming backs and forwards. It's either our midfielders (for whatever reason), coach (one or more) or fitness staff.
Macca19
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In the end its just sheer frustration.
1) Frustration at the fact that from now on, its gonna be a bloody long time before I ever feel a game is safe in our keeping. I will be stressing and worrying another capitulation is just around the corner. 4 times this year says I have no faith in the club winning anymore.
2) Frustration that we could so easily be sitting pretty in the top 4 at the moment if we had the intestinal fortitude of the 04 squad for instance. The fact that these games have been quite easily in our reach and a high finals position could have been ours makes it all the harsher.
1) Frustration at the fact that from now on, its gonna be a bloody long time before I ever feel a game is safe in our keeping. I will be stressing and worrying another capitulation is just around the corner. 4 times this year says I have no faith in the club winning anymore.
2) Frustration that we could so easily be sitting pretty in the top 4 at the moment if we had the intestinal fortitude of the 04 squad for instance. The fact that these games have been quite easily in our reach and a high finals position could have been ours makes it all the harsher.
Frustration knowing that the same players (more or less) and game plan will continue until the end of the current coaching regime. We as supporters are helpless. It's going to take some time to turn it around.
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I do not think that is even debatable Macca. When you see Pearce running after a player as hard as he can and not only not making up any ground but rocking his head from side to side as he is running. That means he is spent, really really spent. Giving his all but spent, thus having already given his 100% but trying to give even more.
Question now is why is that the case? Fitness or gameplan?
I agree that was awful, Given he is a premiership player for my club I like him a lot, and felt ill when the incident occurred, the carlton guy should get 5 games +++++
By quarter-time, and until 3/4 time, I was already tearing my thin hair out. Why?
Port's lack of method in attack - chip to a contested 20 metre lead in the pocket, and should it come off, do it again.
Kane Cornes "rabbit in the headlights" every time he got the cherry.
Stupid, stupid errors. Brogan gifting them a goal from the goalsquare stoppage. Westhoff not giving off with his back to the goal with a dozen teammates streming downfield.
Tredrea taking set shots from beyond his goal range - on the right foot, about twenty metres these days.
Thurstans.
Senseless rotations - Motlop kicks his first, off he goes. How much freaking rest do you need in the pocket? Choco was even rotating when the game was held up with Stewart down. Run hard to the line, use up that last bit of energy.
Time-wasting at the end of quarters.
The inane blathering of Dwayne Russell, who waxes poetic about anyone and anything remotely ordinary. The simpleton Danny Frawley, who cannot possibly be watching, telling us how K Cornes is tearing it up with 10 possies in six minutes (none of them effective). Healy is barely better, but like most of the AFL TV commnetators today, just mailing it in and taking the cash. Even Bruce McAvaney is just a total airhead these days (suggested today in the middle of Q4 that if Reiwoldt managed a major, this would have a big bearing on his performance next week!)
Finally, we are, with the exception of a few goers - Rodan, Motlop, Carlisle, Wilson - Port Adelaide is a boring, boring football team that is not capable or doesn't want to execute a crap or non-existent game plan.
I didn't see the last quarter - I left. It is time that Choco announced similar intentions, though I can see an insipid board begging him to stay and upping the ante.
Port's lack of method in attack - chip to a contested 20 metre lead in the pocket, and should it come off, do it again.
Kane Cornes "rabbit in the headlights" every time he got the cherry.
Stupid, stupid errors. Brogan gifting them a goal from the goalsquare stoppage. Westhoff not giving off with his back to the goal with a dozen teammates streming downfield.
Tredrea taking set shots from beyond his goal range - on the right foot, about twenty metres these days.
Thurstans.
Senseless rotations - Motlop kicks his first, off he goes. How much freaking rest do you need in the pocket? Choco was even rotating when the game was held up with Stewart down. Run hard to the line, use up that last bit of energy.
Time-wasting at the end of quarters.
The inane blathering of Dwayne Russell, who waxes poetic about anyone and anything remotely ordinary. The simpleton Danny Frawley, who cannot possibly be watching, telling us how K Cornes is tearing it up with 10 possies in six minutes (none of them effective). Healy is barely better, but like most of the AFL TV commnetators today, just mailing it in and taking the cash. Even Bruce McAvaney is just a total airhead these days (suggested today in the middle of Q4 that if Reiwoldt managed a major, this would have a big bearing on his performance next week!)
Finally, we are, with the exception of a few goers - Rodan, Motlop, Carlisle, Wilson - Port Adelaide is a boring, boring football team that is not capable or doesn't want to execute a crap or non-existent game plan.
I didn't see the last quarter - I left. It is time that Choco announced similar intentions, though I can see an insipid board begging him to stay and upping the ante.
Has anyone got enough make up to cover the red finger marks around our necks from the chocker holds? Maybe Allan Scott was right, just a few years early.
Everyone seems to be loving to make light of Fremantle's poor game finishes, I think we are just as bad. This loss and the Brisbane game will come back to haunt us for years to come.
Forget last years grand final, noone was ever going to beat Geelong. This is now and these guys need to start being accountable. Stop relying on the Cornes and Burgounes and start delivering.
WE DONT WANT TO BE LIKE WEST COAST AND GO FROM PREMIERS TO CELLAR DWELLERS IN 2 YEARS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Everyone seems to be loving to make light of Fremantle's poor game finishes, I think we are just as bad. This loss and the Brisbane game will come back to haunt us for years to come.
Forget last years grand final, noone was ever going to beat Geelong. This is now and these guys need to start being accountable. Stop relying on the Cornes and Burgounes and start delivering.
WE DONT WANT TO BE LIKE WEST COAST AND GO FROM PREMIERS TO CELLAR DWELLERS IN 2 YEARS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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