Play Nice Random Chat Thread VII

[ferball]

We kinda do.

Australia doesn't have automatic birthright citizenship. You need at least one of your parents to be an Australian citizen or permanent resident to receive Australian citizenship, even if you're born here.

I left a bit out so I edited it for clarity.

If you're born in Australia because your mum is on holiday here, or you are medivacced in from a disaster zone or whatever that's reasonable.

But obviously the Citizenship Act Howard passed in 2007 was a racist piece of legislation.

 

[ferball]

Progressives and conservatives in Australia are very different.

Progressives in the US are not the democratic party.

If the Democrats were genuinely progressive then all of them would have voted to veto Biden's arms deal, not a tiny percentage.

From a progressive pov in the US democrats are the lesser of two evils. Especially at federal level. There seems to be some improvement at state level but we never talk about state politics in the US because its even more irrelevant to us.

Alot of progressives in Australia will still buy houses to use as Air B'n'B investments and complain the government doesn't do enough to fix homelessness tho.

 

[Scallop Industry Thug]

Progressives in the US are not the democratic party.

If the Democrats were genuinely progressive then all of them would have voted to veto Biden's arms deal, not a tiny percentage.

From a progressive pov in the US democrats are the lesser of two evils. Especially at federal level.

We're in agreement.

I've been saying they're not 'all the same' because there are some Dems who will stand by progressive policy a good amount of time, whereas their are basically no Republicans.

I told Val a while back that the only high level US political push back against what Israel is doing is coming from a small minority of Dems.

 

[Chadwiko]

Yeah America is very much a two-party system, so the true progressive are in the democrat party, but that doesn't mean the entire party is the progressive party.

Which is what Scallop and I have been saying.

 

[ferball]

We're in agreement.

I've been saying they're not 'all the same' because there are some Dems who will stand by progressive policy a good amount of time, whereas their are basically no Republicans.

I told Val a while back that the only high level US political push back against what Israel is doing is coming from a small minority of Dems.

That's fair enough, there are small differences and some good Democrats, but effectively they are the same.

The people with power in both parties are happy with the status quo and the status quo is not good for ... pretty much anyone else on earth.

 

[ferball]

Yeah America is very much a two-party system, so the true progressive are in the democrat party, but that doesn't mean the entire party is the progressive party.

Which is what Scallop and I have been saying.

No you've been saying "if you don't love the Democrats you love Trump" to people who live in Australia.

 

[Chadwiko]

No you've been saying "if you don't love the Democrats you love Trump" to people who live in Australia.

Not quite.

I've been saying if you criticise the democrats non-stop, but don't say shit about Trump, then you're supporting Trump.

Big difference, tbh.

 

[Cyber_punk]

 

[Chadwiko]

There needs to be a new German word that's like 'schadenfreude' but for when it's about a million times more enjoyable.

 

[DesertRoo]

Not quite.

I've been saying if you criticise the democrats non-stop, but don't say shit about Trump, then you're supporting Trump.

Big difference, tbh.

nah capt crazy pills you tried to win internet arguments and resorted to calling everyone a trump supporter.

it was also pointed out to you many times that none of us are Seppo's.

 

[Chadwiko]

nah capt crazy pills you tried to win internet arguments and resorted to calling everyone a trump supporter.

it was also pointed out to you many times that none of us are Seppo's.

And none of us being "seppos" explains why you criticise the democrats constantly but say nothing about Trump?

 

[CharlieMortdecai]

Not to the extent Ukraine is. We don't deny citizenship rights to 100,000s of people who were born here based on their ethnicity.

Several states in Australia are very racist tho.

I've been googling but can't work out what this means. Who are the 100ks of people born in Ukraine but denied citizenship? Their birth rate is less than 300k a year, it seems implausible.
Edit: Typo, meant 300k

 

[Val Keating]

Has anyone else seen this from former CIA officer Sarah Adams, she claims that the Taliban is being given $40M a week

 

[Chadwiko]

I've been googling but can't work out what this means. Who are the 100ks of people born in Ukraine but denied citizenship? Their birth rate is less than 300k a year, it seems implausible.
Edit: Typo, meant 300k

Ferball is talking about the Roma population in Ukraine.

(Although, as usual on this topic, he's selling a specific narrative that supports his overall anti-Ukraine position).

TLDR;

• There are/were around 400,000 Roma people living in Ukraine (the war makes accurate counting difficult as you can imagine).
• Reports are that around 10-20% of these 400,000 do not have any documentation or records of their legal status in Ukraine.
• This is not unique to Ukraine, and is a similar problem in basically every EU nation, as Roma populations for a variety of reasons ranging from cultural, historical, and systemic oppression, move around Europe "illegally" and without documentation.
• Ukraine also does not accept 'dual citizenship', so many Roma who identify as Ukrainian and another nationality are legally denied Ukrainian citizenship.
• Roma populations in pre-war Ukraine were undeniably victims of shitty treatment. No one denies this. But crucially, this is not unique to Ukraine, as Roma all over Europe deal with the same issues.

 

[Val Keating]

 

[Chadwiko]

IF this is the "40 million" I think it is, then the way that Tim Burchett and Sarah Adams (who is a bit of a laughing stock in the intel community it seems) are describing the situation is entirely inaccurate.

In short, that "40 million" is;

• From the United Nations, not the United States
• The portion of the UN funds that are from the US are actually coming from previously frozen Afghan assets. So they are essentially giving them back their own money
• It is foreign aid, plain and simple. Saying it's going to "the Taliban" fails to acknowledge that the Taliban is the ruling government in Afghanistan, and that's largely because of the deal Trump made to withdraw from the country.
• This foreign aid arrangement was negotiated under the Trump administration so trying to blame Biden for it is hilarious

 

[Val Keating]

IF this is the "40 million" I think it is, then the way that Tim Burchett and Sarah Adams (who is a bit of a laughing stock in the intel community it seems) are describing the situation is entirely inaccurate.

In short, that "40 million" is;

• From the United Nations, not the United States
• The portion of the UN funds that are from the US are actually coming from previously frozen Afghan assets. So they are essentially giving them back their own money
• It is foreign aid, plain and simple. Saying it's going to "the Taliban" fails to acknowledge that the Taliban is the ruling government in Afghanistan, and that's largely because of the deal Trump made to withdraw from the country.
• This foreign aid arrangement was negotiated under the Trump administration so trying to blame Biden for it is hilarious

She’s a laughing stock because she’s a whistle blower.

Are you saying that the Taliban isn’t being given money from the west? The Taliban themselves brag about it.

 

[Chadwiko]

She’s a laughing stock because she’s a whistle blower.

Are you saying that the Taliban isn’t being given money from the west? The Taliban themselves brag about it.

Afghanistan are receiving foreign aid from the United Nations, yes.

Their country was at war for 20 years. There's a lot of support needed to restore it.

The Taliban are the ruling government. Do I like that fact? Not at all. I wish they weren't. But that's the deal Trump made and now we're dealing with that reality.

 

[CharlieMortdecai]

Ferball is talking about the Roma population in Ukraine.

(Although, as usual on this topic, he's selling a specific narrative that supports his overall anti-Ukraine position).

TLDR;

• There are/were around 400,000 Roma people living in Ukraine (the war makes accurate counting difficult as you can imagine).
• Reports are that around 10-20% of these 400,000 do not have any documentation or records of their legal status in Ukraine.
• This is not unique to Ukraine, and is a similar problem in basically every EU nation, as Roma populations for a variety of reasons ranging from cultural, historical, and systemic oppression, move around Europe "illegally" and without documentation.
• Ukraine also does not accept 'dual citizenship', so many Roma who identify as Ukrainian and another nationality are legally denied Ukrainian citizenship.
• Roma populations in pre-war Ukraine were undeniably victims of shitty treatment. No one denies this. But crucially, this is not unique to Ukraine, as Roma all over Europe deal with the same issues.

Oh right. Well, yes statelessness and lack of documentation is a problem for Romani people everywhere from Turkey to Russia.

 

[Val Keating]

Afghanistan are receiving foreign aid from the United Nations, yes.

Their country was at war for 20 years. There's a lot of support needed to restore it.

The Taliban are the ruling government. Do I like that fact? Not at all. I wish they weren't. But that's the deal Trump made and now we're dealing with that reality.

They don’t have to do it, like the Taliban is using that money for training jihadists with the goal of hurting the west.

They have many different training camps they use that money for, like they have one for suicide bombers for example.

 

[Chadwiko]

Oh right. Well, yes statelessness and lack of documentation is a problem for Romani people everywhere from Turkey to Russia.

Agreed.

I'll allow ferball to make his own arguments in full, but in summary his position boiled down to 'Ukraine voted against giving full citizenship to undocumented Roma therefore they are a racist country and therefore I don't care that Russia invaded them'.

 

[Val Keating]

She’s a laughing stock because she’s a whistle blower.

Are you saying that the Taliban isn’t being given money from the west? The Taliban themselves brag about it.

Chad - knows more about this stuff than a CIA officer. flipping lol.

I could post a picture of a square and crazypills would argue, well actually that’s not a square because you don’t know as much about squares as me.

 

[Val Keating]

Truth.

 

[Chadwiko]

Chad - knows more about this stuff than a CIA officer. flipping lol.

I understand you wholly believe everyone who goes on Joe Rogan and Shawn Ryan's podcasts, but unfortunately these people are frequently proven to be... unreliable.

 

[Chadwiko]

They don’t have to do it, like the Taliban is using that money for training jihadists with the goal of hurting the west.

They have many different training camps they use that money for, like they have one for suicide bombers for example.

Look, I know you don't have a strong grasp on the history, but abandoning Afghanistan in the aftermath of the Soviet invasion and not making any attempts to rebuild the country is kind of what led to the Taliban's rise to power to begin with.

If you want me to argue that 'foreign aid is bad', you're going to be sorely disappointed.

As I said, I dearly wish the Taliban weren't the ruling power in Afghanistan. But their presence doesn't eliminate the need for basic support around things like education, healthcare, infrastructure, and food.