Play Nice Random Chat Thread VII

[Ligma]

I know and just so we're clear i'm not trying to blame you or your family for that situation.

And I'm not blaming Chadwiko either. Just please listen to what we're saying before you make your own decisions.

100% it doesnt discriminate

 

[ferball]

I can't get over this statement


The pre-war/mid-2000s populations of Dontesk/Kharkik/Luhansk/Zaporizhzhia were greater than the entire population of Israel and Palestine combined.

So if the geographical territory is MASSIVELY bigger, and the human population is also bigger, and we're not even including Crimea which puts both categories just obscenely over the top... explain to me by what criteria Israel is more expansionist than Russia?

And this is not to excuse Israel - settlers are awful, the occupation of the West Bank is abhorrent, etc etc.

But Russia, in terms of expansionism, is undeniably worse and I genuinely don't understand how you could possibly argue otherwise. Unless you're a full on loony pro-Russian tankie.

Is Kharkiv part of Russia now?

Russia didn't just go into Eastern Ukraine and take the territory, displacing all the former residents and imposing its language etc on them.

Those new countries wouldn't have been able to declare independence from Ukraine if there wasn't support for the idea in the general population. There was no proper guerilla campaign against the breakaway republics, they were attacked by their new neighbours. Maybe if Ukraine had treated its former citizens properly they wouldn't have wanted to leave.

 

[ferball]

Who do you think Epstein and Maxwell worked for?

There's a bit of evidence that the network they ran wasn't just allied to Mossad.

But there are definitely connections there. G Maxwell's dad was 99% probability a Mossad agent, not just an asset.

 

[ferball]

Broooooooooooo.

There's no way you seriously believe this is a good argument, surely?

Are you that deep in to your Russian apologist bag?!

Hey Papua New Guinea belonged to Australia once. Can we go take it back? Same argument, right?

Well if Crimea hadn't declared independence in 1992 then had the Ukrainian parliament squash that and back it up with force a few years later I might consider their claim legitimate. But they did do that stuff so in terms of Crimea they're no different to Putin. He's just got a bigger army so their might is right trick only lasted till a bigger thug came along.

 

[Scallop Industry Thug]

Is Kharkiv part of Russia now?

Russia didn't just go into Eastern Ukraine and take the territory, displacing all the former residents and imposing its language etc on them.

Those new countries wouldn't have been able to declare independence from Ukraine if there wasn't support for the idea in the general population. There was no proper guerilla campaign against the breakaway republics, they were attacked by their new neighbours. Maybe if Ukraine had treated its former citizens properly they wouldn't have wanted to leave.

You're literally just echoing Putin. Almost word for word. It's like you're a stenographer.

He's acknowledged he plans on expanding. Ukraine is the current target, Belarus is next. Then who knows.

 

[Chip Scab1]

I don't think it is about religion. It is about land and identity.

I'm not against Israel, but I do think they need to rethink what Israel is. One state solution with a secular government is the only way to go.

This clip is pre war, but possibly suggests why Hamas attempted to use such insane tactics.

You're truly crazy if you don't think it's about religion.

They are all nonsense. But let's say it's true (which it isn't as there's no proof) - if you don't think it's because of it, then I can't help you (not that I was).

It's all about Religion. All.

In Footy, we don't take GC17 seriously as they were started 90 years after us. Why then do we take Islam seriously when it began 600 years after the others? It defies logic. If Jews hijacked planes and flew them into buildings killing 4000, I'd be just as against them as I am against the other side. But, given the relative history, I don't really care how much pain and suffering they cause, I hate to say it, don't enjoy it for a second, but the victimhood associated with Palestinians is extraordinary to behold. Deadset extraordinary. And I'll say it again, they have most of the support of those without skin in the game. You need only read this thread to know that. Again, the Jews can't win, they're not allowed to win. They have to suck up the attacks, retaliate within the law or perceived basic law, all while being attacked pretty consistently by a group of people who a) hate each other almost as much as them (sunni v shites v 4by's) b) this after losing a shit tonne of cash & 6m people to another set of haters (in a true genocide) backed by another set of zealots (Nazi's who were absolutely backed by Catholics).

The Palestinians have their land - Gaza, West Bank - they use the aid provided, to enrich the leaders and further attack a democracy. It's actually ridiculous. And they have most people's support despite being the obvious danger of the two.

 

[Val Keating]

There's a bit of evidence that the network they ran wasn't just allied to Mossad.

But there are definitely connections there. G Maxwell's dad was 99% probability a Mossad agent, not just an asset.

That’s antisemitic don’t you know

 

[ferball]

You're literally just echoing Putin. Almost word for word. It's like you're a stenographer.

He's acknowledged he plans on expanding. Ukraine is the current target, Belarus is next. Then who knows.

Look honestly I don't really care.

My grandad was Roma, his family left that part of eastern Europe 150 years ago because of their racist bullshit. Neither Russia or Ukraine treat Roma people properly and if they blow each other up fighting some stupid war they've been fighting with each other in some form or other for 1000 years it serves them right for being bigoted **** wits.

Ukraine want to be a modern enlightened state, they can't even give some of "their own people" equal rights and protections under the law. Why should I support that?

 

[Chadwiko]

Why are we implying that Ukraine and Russia are the only European countries that mistreat Roma people?

You basically cannot name a country in EU that doesn't have some sort of shitty history when it comes to Roma diaspora.

 

[Scallop Industry Thug]

Look honestly I don't really care.

My grandad was Roma, his family left that part of eastern Europe 150 years ago because of their racist bullshit. Neither Russia or Ukraine treat Roma people properly and if they blow each other up fighting some stupid war they've been fighting with each other in some form or other for 1000 years it serves them right for being bigoted **** wits.

Ukraine want to be a modern enlightened state, they can't even give some of "their own people" equal rights and protections under the law. Why should I support that?

Are you deadset taking the piss?

Their entrenched discrimination in Ukranian society does not justify a full scale invasion and annexation of a ****ing country, particularly when outcomes for them will be infinitly worse.

You are genuinely in the tank for Putin. That is no bull shit. You won't acknowledge it openly or explicitly, but you know you are.

 

[ferball]

Why are we implying that Ukraine and Russia are the only European countries that mistreat Roma people?

You basically cannot name a country in EU that doesn't have some sort of shitty history when it comes to Roma diaspora.

So ****en what.

Throughout this conflict over multiple threads I've maintained two things and documented them.

The first is that Ukraine is a racist state with ongoing racist policies and practises. Less than three months before Putin invaded a Ukrainian court said that ethnic cleansing of all Roma people from a village was a legitimate form of local democracy. A Ukrainian court defended the burning of those peoples homes and property. defended the fact they were made homeless and chased away.

How many other Euiropean courts were making those sort of decisions in December 2021?

Links in the first Chessboard thread. Go find them yourself if you want to see them.

The second is the west provoked this response from Russia as part of a process of pressuring and pushing Russia. Go look in the first Chessboard thread at the US thinktank documents from trumps time in power that I linked recommending supplying lethal aid to Ukraine as the most effective way to economically stress Russia. They acknowledge the risk but still recommend that path as the most likely to succeed.

Putin's just a thug, a smart thug sure but that's it. If you provoke a thug to attack their neighbours, knowing the damage that will cause to lives and property, because you see a benefit in it then you're worse than the thug you just manipulated to carry out violence.

That's what the US did.

Links in the first Chessboard thread. Go find them yourself if you want to see them.

 

[Scallop Industry Thug]

Why are we implying that Ukraine and Russia are the only European countries that mistreat Roma people?

You basically cannot name a country in EU that doesn't have some sort of shitty history when it comes to Roma diaspora.

He's running through a checklist of why Putin isn't that bad.

 

[ferball]

Are you deadset taking the piss?

Their entrenched discrimination in Ukranian society does not justify a full scale invasion and annexation of a ****ing country, particularly when outcomes for them will be infinitly worse.

You are genuinely in the tank for Putin. That is no bull shit. You won't acknowledge it openly or explicitly, but you know you are.

I just don't care. Putin can do what he wants in Eastern Europe. Its not my business.

Invading another country isn't justified.

But in this case the state that got invaded isn't getting my support either because it was actively racist against my ancestors people in the lead up to that invasion. It denies them legal protection, citizenship and all the rights that go with it.

If you want to support that sort of thing fine. That's your choice.

 

[Val Keating]

This is the manifesto. Looks like the drones made him lose it.

 

[Scallop Industry Thug]

The strangest result of this new disinformation age is how many of these 'anti-MSM', free thinking, defend the little guy types are echoing the most powerful people in the world like Putin, Trump and Musk.

Ferball. Your semi-justification (or...however you'd describe it) of the invasion and annexation of an entire ****ing country based on the very real historical discrimination against the Romani people in Ukraine is simply a product of brain rot. Too much acceptance of Kremlin and far right disinformation.


Make aid for Ukraine dependant on them improving the lives of Romani. Hell, sanction them if they don't.

But for you to wave off the expansionist policy of a dictator for a reason PUTIN HIMSELF HAS NOT EVEN offered is deadset ****ed. You're friend. Re-evaluate every source of information you're using.

 

[Scallop Industry Thug]

If you want to support that sort of thing fine. That's your choice.

Oh **** off with your bull shit.

You're a lackey. A fried, cooked lackey. Using your ancestors as ideological cover for your own shitty opinions.

 

[Val Keating]

Turns out he actually wanted to go on the Shawn Ryan show, looks like they missed the email

 

[Chip Scab1]

He's running through a checklist of why Putin isn't that bad.

Because, maybe, he isn't that bad. Russians or Belarusians I know, probably sit where Muslim's you and countless others grew up with (maybe) sit. We all are prone to biases because of someone somewhere being nice to us. One of my best mates is from Belarus, his dad was shot (and survived) by the Afghans during the war they had, yet his sister (Jew) is married to a Muslim (who's a nice guy). It happens. They are Russian though, mainly because the country they left when they migrated here was Russia. Sure it's now Babrusk, Belarus, but it's still Russia to them and always will be.

 

[ferball]

I don't want to stray too far into this conversation, I disagree with expansionism and imperialism in all its forms and I hope all current conflicts can be resolved peacefully and without any further harm to anyone.

But I recognise that historical population displacement, cultural and linguistic oppression is quite literally the basis/cause for Russia having claims today to a lot of the countries' territories that you've mentioned in your posts. That's why their neighbours that have historically been subject to this are nervous about the situation generally.

Their claims to a lot of these territories aren't any stronger than say the UK's claim to Northern Ireland.

Until the US provoked this invasion Russia didn't claim sovereignty over any of those territories except one, which wanted its independence over 30 years ago and Ukraine stepped in to stop them getting it.

Putin's a thug and he runs Russia like a criminal gang that supplies fossil fuels instead of drugs and sex workers but 15 years ago he was trying to engage with the west and Europe using trade and he was happy for Ukraine to join the EU and sell the rest of Europe his gas after he sold it to them at a discount.

I understand why other countries arounf Russia are nervous but it didn't ever have to be this way.

Also...

Their claims to a lot of these territories aren't any stronger than say the UK's claim to Northern Ireland.

Whose claims are you talking about here?

 

[Scallop Industry Thug]

I just don't care. Putin can do what he wants in Eastern Europe. Its not my business.

You to a tee. Bomb, kill, maim, rape, invade.

But you only care about when you can use your historical link to oppression to justify your decision to turn away from present bombing, killing, maiming and raping.

 

[ferball]

He's running through a checklist of why Putin isn't that bad.

No I'm telling you why i don't support Ukraine. If you want to support racists and nazis that's your business.

Putin's Russia is no worse than the US or China tho. Don't pretend otherwise. All of those major powers do whatever they want and don't care about the consequences for other nations.

 

[ferball]

You to a tee. Bomb, kill, maim, rape, invade.

But you only care about when you can use your historical link to oppression to justify your decision to turn away from present bombing, killing, maiming and raping.

The oppression I'm referring to is not historical. It was ongoing when Putin invaded.

The day before Putin invaded Ulkraine still denied citizenship to 100,000s of people who had lived in Ukraine for generations, whose families had been there for centuries. Less than three months earlier Ukrainian courts had said that ethnic cleansing was a legitimate form of direct democracy.

Given that why should anyone support them?

In 2017 the (former now) governor of Odessa said that specific case of ethnic cleansing was only a "temporary solution" - implying the need for some sort of final solution, while describing all Roma people as criminals. This is the sort of thing you are defending.

 

[Scallop Industry Thug]

If you want to support racists and nazis that's your business.

Id tell you that you're a piece of shit and tell you to, unequivocally, go and **** yourself but you're brain is that fried from digesting all the bullshit, most of which comes from this fried campaigner thread, that I don't think you're capable of any independent thought.

You're nothing more than a vessel. Using your discrimination to justify nonchalance towards the armed invasion, killing and raping of a country that had nothing to do with your relatives and isn't even being used as a reason by the fascist invader.

You're literally making up reasons for the invasion.

Using your discriminated relatives to justify an invasion. Real campaigner areas, 'ferby'.

 

[Val Keating]

Because, maybe, he isn't that bad. Russian's or Belarusians I know, probably sit where Muslim's you and countless others grew up with (maybe) sit. We all are prone to biases because of someone somewhere being nice to us. One of my best mates is from Belarus, his dad was shot (and survived) by the Afghans during the war they had, yet his sister (Jew) is married to a Muslim (who's a nice guy). It happens. They are Russian though, mainly because the country they left when they migrated here was Russia. Sure it's now Babrusk, Belarus, but it's still Russia to them and always will be.

You’ve always been a Putin fan hey.

 

[Scallop Industry Thug]

The oppression I'm referring to is not historical. It was ongoing when Putin invaded.

The day before Putin invaded Ulkraine still denied citizenship to 100,000s of people who had lived in Ukraine for generations, whose families had been there for centuries. Less than three months earlier Ukrainian courts had said that ethnic cleansing was a legitimate form of direct democracy.

Given that why should anyone support them?

In 2017 the (former now) governor of Odessa said that specific case of ethnic cleansing was only a "temporary solution" - implying the need for some sort of final solution, while describing all Roma people as criminals. This is the sort of thing you are defending.

Just make sure to run every example of armed conflict through the 'were Ferball's relatives impacted' test before formulating any opinions. You've shown that's how you view the armed invasion of a soveriegn couuntry here.