Play Nice Random Chat Thread VII

[ferball]

Oh **** off with your bull shit.

You're a lackey. A fried, cooked lackey. Using your ancestors as ideological cover for your own shitty opinions.

You want me to support a nation that engages in legally supported ethnic cleansing while its at war with another nation and you reckon I'm cooked because I don't.

You're not even objecting to Ukraine's practises. You're not even saying things like "Maybe if we support them they'll change afterward." You just don't care, and you're describing my objection to state sanctioned racism as a "shitty opinion."

That says more about you than it does about me.

 

[ferball]

Make aid for Ukraine dependant on them improving the lives of Romani. Hell, sanction them if they don't.

I actually would support that but no one has ****en done it.

And I just said you weren't even prepared to consider that so i apologise.

 

[Chadwiko]

You're not even objecting to Ukraine's practises.

Because you are dramatically overstating them, or misrepresenting them.

It would be like China saying Australia deserves to be invaded because we voted against the Voice to Parliament.

Was it a decision I agree with? No.
Is it a valid justification for invasion? Absolutely not.

Literally no one has ever sat in these threads and claimed Ukraine is a perfect country with a spotless history.

The only reason you hold it to that standard is because it thinks it provides you justttt enough cover to hide your pro-Russian nonsense behind.

 

[Scallop Industry Thug]

Russia's claims.

The issue is that there is a pattern of rhetoric escalation (leveraging minority Russian communities) which has been consistent and has ended in armed conflict and assertions of sovereignty even prior to Ukraine.

I don't think it's fair to call it unfounded hysteria when it's happened multiple times in the 21st century now and some countries see themselves somewhere along that dangerous pipeline of that rhetoric escalation.

12.5% of Ukrainian provinces are majority Russian speaking (The East and Crimea). 85% of Ukrainians speak Ukranian as their primary language.

NIn Putin's own essay, he made no attempt to distinguish between the East of Ukraine and the entire country. He wants the entire country. Then Belarus. Then who knows. Georgia? Central Asia?

 

[Chadwiko]

There was an agreement made that NATO would not push any further than (iirc) east Germany

Tell the full story, Val.

When was that agreement made? C'mon. Post it. I dare you.

US got Ukraine to agree to join NATO and Russia invaded.

That’s what happened.

Except it's not. It's patently not.

AND even if it was (it's not), that still doesnt justify the invasion.

I don’t agree with the invasion at all, and the main reason I want it to stop is because the escalation is scary. They’re talking about using nukes now.

Who is "they". Say it. Only one party involved has recklessly threatened the use of nuclear weapons. Say who it is.

And I obviously just want people to stop killing each other.

Me too. Which is why I strenuously object to the war Russia started unprovoked.

 

[Scallop Industry Thug]

lol they're talking about using nukes.

Cmooooooonnnnnnn.

If some assistant to the assistant to the assistant barista for Biden's WH cafe coffee suppller tweeted "Lets nukez Putin lollll", you wouldn't have stopped posting about it.

But when Putin and only Putin threatens nukes...it's "Geez we're really escalating here".

 

[Val Keating]

Tell the full story, Val.

When was that agreement made? C'mon. Post it. I dare you.



Except it's not. It's patently not.

AND even if it was (it's not), that still doesnt justify the invasion.



Who is "they". Say it. Only one party involved has recklessly threatened the use of nuclear weapons. Say who it is.


Me too. Which is why I strenuously object to the war Russia started unprovoked.

A long time ago. Probably the fall of the Soviet Union.

Obviously I meant Russia is threatening nukes.

Jees you’re a princess

 

[ferball]

Because you are dramatically overstating them, or misrepresenting them.

It would be like China saying Australia deserves to be invaded because we voted against the Voice to Parliament.

Was it a decision I agree with? No.
Is it a valid justification for invasion? Absolutely not.

Literally no one has ever sat in these threads and claimed Ukraine is a perfect country with a spotless history.

The only reason you hold it to that standard is because it thinks it provides you justttt enough cover to hide your pro-Russian nonsense behind.

**** off you ****en hypocrite. If some nation treated Jewish people that way we'd never hear the end of it from you.

You clearly have a hierarchy of people who you think deserve human rights.

I just said that if aid to Ukraine was dependent on them treating all of their people fairly i'd support it.

 

[ferball]

Me too. Which is why I strenuously object to the war Russia started unprovoked.

It was not unprovoked but you won't acknowledge that because you are a coward.

 

[ferball]

Chad likens people being forced out of their homes and having their homes and possessions destroyed by far right thugs with police support to a no vote in the recent referendum.

Cos obviously that's a fair comparison.

 

[Scallop Industry Thug]

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You clearly have a hierarchy of people who you think deserve human rights.

You’ve literally said you don’t personally care about this invasion because if what is happening to those people in the country.

You have literally filtered your opinion of an annexation of an entire country based on your relatives very real and horrendous experiences.

You’ve literally said this.




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[Chadwiko]

A long time ago. Probably the fall of the Soviet Union.

Just before the fall of the USSR, yes.

And the whole Russian argument that NATO "promised not to expand" is inaccurate too. And you know who said it is inaccurate? Mikhail Gorbachev.

Good read about it here if you want to brush up on the topic;

Ukraine: the history behind Russia’s claim that Nato promised not to expand to the east

Russia insists that there was an agreement not to expand Nato eastwards after the end of the USSR. History begs to differ.

theconversation.com

 

[Chadwiko]

Eastern Ukraine seems to have "always" (ie since the USSR collapsed) identified with Russia and preferred closer ties to Russia, even in cities that were "liberated" by Ukraine after 2014. It seems reasonable to me that even after the invasion people in those places might prefer to be part of Russia rather than Ukraine.

Lots of parts of far eastern Russia have closer cultural ties with China/Mongolia/Korea. Should those countries invade Russia and Annex Vladivostok?

 

[Chadwiko]

**** off you ****en hypocrite. If some nation treated Jewish people that way we'd never hear the end of it from you.

You clearly have a hierarchy of people who you think deserve human rights.

I just said that if aid to Ukraine was dependent on them treating all of their people fairly i'd support it.

Hahahaha there sure is a bunch of hypocrisy in these threads but unfortunately I'm not the source.

Tell me again how Israel is absolutely and undeniably worthy of condemnation for attacking Gaza and Lebanon, but Russia's invasion of Ukraine was provoked and there's nuance and historical land claims and cultural issues and we can't just side with Ukraine because they're evil etc etc etc...

You call me the hypocrite, but between you and me, only one of us has been universal in their condemnation of the aggressor in both scenarios and it ain't you.

 

[Val Keating]

Just before the fall of the USSR, yes.

And the whole Russian argument that NATO "promised not to expand" is inaccurate too. And you know who said it is inaccurate? Mikhail Gorbachev.

Good read about it here if you want to brush up on the topic;

Ukraine: the history behind Russia’s claim that Nato promised not to expand to the east

Russia insists that there was an agreement not to expand Nato eastwards after the end of the USSR. History begs to differ.

theconversation.com

Is Gorb the one that died in 23 and Putin refused to give him the usual burial honours given to past leaders because he didn’t think he deserved it?

 

[Chadwiko]

Is Gorb the one that died in 23 and Putin refused to give him the usual burial honours given to past leaders because he didn’t think he deserved it?

Wouldn't surprise me but tbh I don't know about that issue. Don't recall seeing anything about it.

 

[Chadwiko]

It was not unprovoked but you won't acknowledge that because you are a coward.

Cowardice has nothing to do with it.

It's just straight up factually incorrect.

 

[Scallop Industry Thug]

Chad likens people being forced out of their homes and having their homes and possessions destroyed by far right thugs with police support to a no vote in the recent referendum.

Cos obviously that's a fair comparison.

The no vote was another kick in the guts to Indigenous people. The fact you don’t feel it does not minimise it.

The point being that abuse of a people within a country does not justify an armed invasion of that country for reasons unrelated to those people.

You’re literally twisting yourself in knots trying to minimise the actions of a fascist. It’s ****ing pathetic.


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[Scallop Industry Thug]

Lots of parts of far eastern Russia have closer cultural ties with China/Mongolia/Korea. Should those countries invade Russia and Annex Vladivostok?

Based on historical ownership, Sweden should reclaim St Petersburg.


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[Scallop Industry Thug]

[emoji[emoji6]][emoji6][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji6]" data-quote="Val Keating" data-source="post: 0" class="bbCodeBlock bbCodeBlock--expandable bbCodeBlock--quote js-expandWatch">

Is Gorb the one that died in and Putin refused to give him the usual burial honours given to past leaders because he didn’t think he deserved it?

He’s the guy from the Pizza Hut ad. Used it to launch a career in Russian politics.


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[Val Keating]

Wouldn't surprise me but tbh I don't know about that issue. Don't recall seeing anything about it.

I think it was. He thought he was a shit president for Russia.

 

[Chadwiko]

I think it was. He thought he was a shit president for Russia.

Gorbachev wanted peace and wanted closer ties to the rest of the world.

Wouldn't surprise me that career KGB hardliner Putin disliked his doctrine.

But yeah as I said, I never saw/read anything about that specifically so can't really comment beyond that hypothetical.

 

[Val Keating]

Gorbachev wanted peace and wanted closer ties to the rest of the world.

Wouldn't surprise me that career KGB hardliner Putin disliked his doctrine.

But yeah as I said, I never saw/read anything about that specifically so can't really comment beyond that hypothetical.

Yeah it was him. Died in 22.

Why Putin could forgive Yeltsin but not Gorbachev

The USSR’s last leader isn’t being accorded the same fanfare and pomp of a state funeral.

www.politico.eu

 

[ferball]

You’ve literally said you don’t personally care about this invasion because if what is happening to those people in the country.

You have literally filtered your opinion of an annexation of an entire country based on your relatives very real and horrendous experiences.

You’ve literally said this.




Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com

The Ukrainian people are suffering in a way that they've done nothing to deserve but the Ukrainian state is a racist organisation. I'd 100% support what you said about aid being contingent on recognition of Roma human rights tho.

I've even said that in one of the MB threads on the subject.

Our tax dollars don't go to individual Ukrainians, they go to the Ukrainian state which is problematic right now.

The only reason i know about this stuff is cause of my heritage but if someone had informed me of it and I wasn't Roma I'd still feel the same way. And I'd feel that way about any other similar situation. i'd even change my position on who i support if someone would provide evidence that i was supporting a state doing the same thing as Ukraine does.

Not supporting Ukraine is not the same as supporting Putin. That's Dubya "with us or against us" level bullshit.

Invading a country is shit, but provoking that invasion because you want too economically stress the invader is even worse. And that was what the US did. Its not putin propaganda either.

 

[Chadwiko]

Not supporting Ukraine is not the same as supporting Putin. That's Dubya "with us or against us" level bullshit.

Not supporting Ukraine is not the same as supporting Putin. You're correct with this statement.

Not supporting Ukraine whilst simultaneously regurgitating Russian propaganda that the invasion was provoked or justified or in anyway excusable is supporting Putin.

Invading a country is shit, but provoking that invasion because you want too economically stress the invader is even worse. And that was what the US did. Its not putin propaganda either.

It literally is, and you saying otherwise doesn't change that.

I mean, you are near verbatim repeating Putin's own words.