Random Chat Thread VIII (Aka the world politics shitfight thread)

[Chadwiko]

I'm not an economist. The whole thing looks like rubbish to me. But I'm starting to think defecits don't matter. .... like ... where does money come from?

Oh god please tell me you're not going down the MMT rabbit hole haha

 

[ferball]

How has this ceasefire deal come about? What has changed that would prompt Israel to accept any form of Ceasefire?

8 Billion dollars worth of weapons to fight Iran.

 

[ferball]

Oh god please tell me you're not going down the MMT rabbit hole haha

I don't know anything about economics other than modern economics fails to predict anything, so its about as scientifically accurate as political science (ie not at all), and the whole thing is based on the artifical manipulation of scarcity.

Its a ****en scam to keep the wealthy in power.

 

[ferball]

It was one of his election promises. Trump has no interest in having wars in the Middle East.

Except with Iran.

 

[Scallop Industry Thug]

I'm not an economist. The whole thing looks like rubbish to me. But I'm starting to think defecits don't matter. .... like ... where does money come from?

It really doesn’t.

Money is invented. Often a deficit is a good thing as it means governments are spending on infrastructure and social services.

Musk will try and balance it by slashing everything except the military and $$ to his own governments.

Government debt is not the same as our debt. If we get behind on our mortgage we can’t raise taxes to pay for it.


Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com

 

[ferball]

Both Biden and Trump camps appear to be trying to take credit for it.

It is interesting that the exact terms of the ceasefire are the exact terms that the Biden administration pushed for starting back in May last year.

So they didn't give it to Biden, they gave it to trump.

 

[ferball]

It really doesn’t.

Money is invented. Often a deficit is a good thing as it means governments are spending on infrastructure and social services.

Musk will try and balance it by slashing everything except the military and $$ to his own governments.

Government debt is not the same as our debt. If we get behind on our mortgage we can’t raise taxes to pay for it.


Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com

Can't even grow weed any more cos of the medical pot bullshit.

 

[Chadwiko]

Can't even grow weed any more cos of the medical pot bullshit.

Hey?

Have any States and Territories changed their laws around growing cannabis for personal use since the proliferation of medicinal cannabis? I'm not aware of any such changes?

 

[ferball]

It really doesn’t.

Money is invented. Often a deficit is a good thing as it means governments are spending on infrastructure and social services.

Musk will try and balance it by slashing everything except the military and $$ to his own governments.

Government debt is not the same as our debt. If we get behind on our mortgage we can’t raise taxes to pay for it.


Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com

Have you ever heard of David Graeber?

 

[ferball]

Hey?

Have any States and Territories changed their laws around growing cannabis for personal use since the proliferation of medicinal cannabis? I'm not aware of any such changes?

It was a facetious comment. However the medical pot set up appears to be so lax that it caters to people who want to use personally if they just spin some shit during an online consultation. I'm sure there is still a black market in it as well.

 

[Chadwiko]

It was a facetious comment. However the medical pot set up appears to be so lax that it caters to people who want to use personally if they just spin some shit during an online consultation. I'm sure there is still a black market in it as well.

Yeah, Cannabis is now defacto legal for middle and upper class people with the financial means to obtain it through the medicinal channels.

TLDR: medicinal cannabis is more expensive, but more consistent/reliable in terms of quality. 'Black market' cannabis is cheaper, but more susceptible to PGR and less choice (and less accuracy) in strain/genetic options.

 

[ferball]

Turns out David Graeber is a MMT guy ... and MMT is a thing! It means modern monetary theory.

Graeber wrote a book called Debt: The first 5000 years which points out that money wasn't actually invented to cover issues with a barter based market economy and that what we call debt grew out an interlinked system of social obligations based on mutual aid in pre-historical societies.

He also wrote Bullshit Jobs which examines the concept of elite overproduction and how today's society copes with it.

 

[ferball]

Yeah, Cannabis is now defacto legal for middle and upper class people with the financial means to obtain it through the medicinal channels.

TLDR: medicinal cannabis is more expensive, but more consistent/reliable in terms of quality. 'Black market' cannabis is cheaper, but more susceptible to PGR and less choice (and less accuracy) in strain/genetic options.

If you live in a city maybe.

I don't use it (except every now and then if someone gives me a bud) or buy it or even grow it. But from what I've seen medical pot is cheaper now. There's only about 12 actual strains anyway, maybe 15 if you count rarities from odd mutations.

The rest is just marketing.

PGR sucks. That's why you get your weed from someone who grows it in their backyard and knows what they are doing.

 

[Scallop Industry Thug]

[emoji6][emoji6][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji6]]" data-quote="ferball" data-source="post: 0" class="bbCodeBlock bbCodeBlock--expandable bbCodeBlock--quote js-expandWatch">

Have you ever heard of David Graeber?

He’s on my to read list. But I’m getting dumber each year so will probs never happen. He good?


Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com

 

[ferball]

He’s on my to read list. But I’m getting dumber each year so will probs never happen. He good?


Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com

Yes. He's different. A left wing anarchist who studied economics from an anthropological pov.

He's a proper academic so his serious books have reams of footnotes.

 

[Liam Boy]

 

[Chadwiko]

 

[Scallop Industry Thug]

And I know what some will say, but I challenge those posters to name a time so much power was concentrated in so few hands?

Yes the trend towards corporate consolidation has been happening since the 80s. We saw the impact of businesses buying and merging with media companies. But there was also some level of competition

Now that media is dying. The new ‘captains of industry’ are the tech bros. And not only do they sell products they own the means of information. Henry ford never had that power.

Musk not only bankrolled a presidential campaign he shaped how people got their info. If he falls deeper into that khole, zuck will replace him.




Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com

 

[The Dark]

They’ve been running deficits for decades.

Clinton delivered three consecutive surpluses in 98/99/00.

Deficit is a choice and one they can only sustain while $USD is the world's de facto reserve currency.

Their choice to weaponise that status via sanctions has led to countries recognising the danger of a USD denominated world.

I don't think BRICS is as powerful as many others do, nor do I dismiss it like others.

But one outcome of the Ukraine War so far is that Western sanctions absolutely have a limit and are survivable.

Russia's main economic issue is they are running their wartime economy too hot, not that the sanctions did anything.

This push for balance budgets is just a clarion call for the wealth class to take money from the rest. The only genuine threat to their economy is climate change.


Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com

They have numerous threats to their economy, obviously climate change is a massive issue.

Trump's economic madness can hurt them very badly.

Thing with the US is its sheer size, population and geography, means they can operate as a self sustaining unit if they want - they have all the energy, minerals and food they need.

Was it Bismarck who said God looks after drunks and the US?

Like, lithium is the new gold, of course they're finding huge deposits of across the US.

The real economic basket case is Britain, they're utterly stuffed.

 

[Chadwiko]

And I know what some will say, but I challenge those posters to name a time so much power was concentrated in so few hands?

Yeah.

When Bill Gates was the richest dude in the world, he wasn't using that wealth to literally buy his way into government, and further enrich himself.

Hell, say what you will about Bill Gates (the dude is flawed and still obviously hyper-capitalist) but he's done genuinely good things with his wealth in terms of philanthropy and public health.

The nature of American politics means that money equals access, and access equals power. That is and has been indisputably true for a long time.

But what is also indisputably true is that it has now, under Trump/Musk, this has multiplied to levels never before seen. And it's not particularly close. Hell, the entire reason that JD Vance is the Vice President is because Musk/Sacks/Thiel groomed him, pushed him, promoted him, and paid for him to be the pick. Remember that before they did this, all three of them were very critical of Donald Trump publicly. But then once they realised they could buy their way into power like this, that tune changed on a dime.

 

[Cyber_punk]

A bit late to grow a set now, Joe.

No going back now for the US.

 

[The Dark]

It was one of his election promises. Trump has no interest in having wars in the Middle East.

He's very interested in a war against Iran.

Now the US is back on the "let's use jihadis as the tip of the spear against our enemies" train again in Syria, the focus of conflict is shifting.

Israel tried wiping out Hamas in Gaza and failed. They tried the ethnic cleansing of Gaza and failed.

Now they're moving on to war against Iran proper, they need to ensure their backyard is quiet, hence the ceasefire.

 

[Chadwiko]

He's very interested in a war against Iran.

I strongly, strongly doubt this happens.

Not for any ideological or moral reasons, but because Trump is undoubtedly under the influence of Putin in Russia, and MBS in Saudi Arabia. Russia and Iran are allies, and although Saudi Arabia and Iran aren't close friends, a war in Iran isn't in their best interests and threatens their own financial safety.

Now the US is back on the "let's use jihadis as the tip of the spear against our enemies" train again in Syria, the focus of conflict is shifting.

That's certainly one way of describing the situation in Syria. Sure.

Israel tried wiping out Hamas in Gaza and failed. They tried the ethnic cleansing of Gaza and failed.

Now they're moving on to war against Iran proper, they need to ensure their backyard is quiet, hence the ceasefire.

I disagree with the characterisation here, and point once again to the excerpt of The Atlantic article I posted on the previous page.

EDIT: added in Putin/Russia into that first paragraph too.

 

[travelli]

Does anybody think that israel will actually get out of Gaza?

 

[The Dark]

It really doesn’t.

Money is invented. Often a deficit is a good thing as it means governments are spending on infrastructure and social services.

Musk will try and balance it by slashing everything except the military and $$ to his own governments.

Government debt is not the same as our debt. If we get behind on our mortgage we can’t raise taxes to pay for it.


Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com

This x infinity.

People who think government debt/deficits = household debt/deficit are among the stupidest people in the world.

Sadly it is a simple sell to the electorate when parties hit election time, because most people can't or don't want to understand actual economics.

Dutton will roll hard with it.