Discussion Random Discussion

[VDS66]

The premise of living in a democracy is the right to free speech and the freedom ti stand up for what you believe in.

A Prime Minister who tells our kids to do the opposite and stay in school is a condescending, out of touch ******** of the highest order IMO.

To all the kids that protested and sent a massive **** you to politicians, I salute you!

Sign of the day goes to the one that read "I've seen more useful cabinets in IKEA".

 

[VDS66]

I guess it depends on the drug but alcohol used in moderation actually has health benefits.

Then again as has been shown many times if you have enough money you can fund studies to spin things just about any way you want.

What load of shit.

Tell that to indigenous Australians, victims of domestic violence or parents of one punch victims...

 

[Crusty Undies]

Come on man, I like debating you on here because you are a considered and rational even though we don't always see eye to eye, but Joffa didn't all of a sudden turn it a racial issue. I think it was well and truely that before hand.

How is it racist? No one's said "all Sudanese are criminals" have they? Pointing out the literally indisuptable facts that 1 in 10 Sudanese refugees are committing crime isn't racist. If caucasians were committing crime at the same rate in Australia we'd basically be living in Sudan.

 

[bergholt]

How is it racist? No one's said "all Sudanese are criminals" have they? Pointing out the literally indisuptable facts that 1 in 10 Sudanese refugees are committing crime isn't racist. If caucasians were committing crime at the same rate in Australia we'd basically be living in Sudan.

Wasn't it 1%? That's 1 in 100 not 1 in 10.

 

[gringo2011]

The premise of living in a democracy is the right to free speech and the freedom ti stand up for what you believe in.

A Prime Minister who tells our kids to do the opposite and stay in school is a condescending, out of touch ******** of the highest order IMO.

To all the kids that protested and sent a massive **** you to politicians, I salute you!

Sign of the day goes to the one that read "I've seen more useful cabinets in IKEA".

My son is 13 and made his way there, he's not a protesting type, he's sporty and mainstream. He probably learnt more organising himself to get there and home than he does in school to be honest. His friends parents who he was going with wouldn't let them go so he went by himself. If you want change you should do something rather than talk about it. My generation are all resigned to the system and have given up.

 

[gringo2011]

How is it racist? No one's said "all Sudanese are criminals" have they? Pointing out the literally indisuptable facts that 1 in 10 Sudanese refugees are committing crime isn't racist. If caucasians were committing crime at the same rate in Australia we'd basically be living in Sudan.

By choosing to focus on their race rather than other areas of differentiation like socio economic or geography it is literally a racial issue.

 

[Yawkey way]

ABS figure for 2016-17. One year in Australia, somewhat frighteningly. Deaths related to the use and abuse of alcohol. Cancers, liver disease, suicides, heart disease and brain damage. A national disgrace. These figures are kept well hidden because of the enormous amounts of tax the government reaps from the industry. Its use is so widespread that to tax it the way smoking is, would cause a riot. An election loser for sure, which is the main concern of our political masters. Why are there no pictures of the consequences of drinking on booze bottles the way there are on cigarette packets? Why not plain labelling and crippling taxes? It would curb the problem and make a huge difference to our economy, unburden our health system, not to mention the social benefits it would bring.

The abuse of prescription drugs kills eight times as many Australians as illegal drugs do, it is estimated. The real number is probably double that, according to those in the Health industry. The most dangerous place to be in Australia, if you're trying to stay alive is a hospital. Mistakes, negligence, incorrect medications etc. account for about 17,000 deaths a year, although the real number is probably way higher. Voluntary doctor-assisted euthanasia is a daily fact of life. I don't know what all the fuss is about with anti-euthanasia laws. They've been doing it since man began walking upright. A bit like abortion. Get it out in the open and regulate. Fewer botched suicides and therefore less distress all round.

The war on drugs is, like almost every war, fake. Engineered by those in positions of power to manipulate the population and generate profit. First as a copper, then as a psych. I've seen a number of sides and all of them have brought me to the same conclusion. The pharmaceutical industry and their corrupt relationships with doctors should be on the list for future Royal Commissions. Have you ever noticed how jealously the AMA protects its power bases? Why are they the only ones who can write prescriptions and decide what drugs should be administered? Nurses have been given very limited privileges in this area, mainly due to convenience and reduction of costs, rather than professional recognition or patient welfare.

Most GPs, especially those who work in the bulk-billing barns, are merely dispensers of product. You should cut out the middleman and go straight to the pharmacy. Next time you're in the GP's, have a look at how much of the office and equipment has marketing materials from big Pharma on it. Most offices are almost entirely fitted out in this way. I know this because one of my best mates is a GP who has set up his own successful practice. A veritable goldmine. The added bonus is he gets all sorts of delightful freebies all year around. These include cruises and overseas holidays disguised as conferences and information forums. Factor in The free lunches twice weekly from the pharma sales reps. And we all know there's no such thing as a free lunch.

I’m sorry but I can’t find that on the abs site at all, I get 5 per 100,000 as direct cause that’s about 1,300 plus per year, 10 per 100,000 listed as a secondary or contributing factor 2,800 total 4,186 mentioned in a coronial report or certified by a doctor.

I’m probably looking at the wrong report this is deaths due to harmful alcohol consumption in Australia it’s part of the wider report causes of death in Australia 2017. I’ve long known about the abuse of perscription drugs and I’ve seen some scandalous docos and reports on big pharma and their practices.

What I’m looking at seems unbelievably low that’s why I was interested, my daughters supervising professor does a lot of research into alcohol including advertising.

 

[CursingFijian]

How is it racist? No one's said "all Sudanese are criminals" have they? Pointing out the literally indisuptable facts that 1 in 10 Sudanese refugees are committing crime isn't racist. If caucasians were committing crime at the same rate in Australia we'd basically be living in Sudan.

What about ‘Italian’ crime? Or ‘Vietnamese’ crime? Is ‘Dinky Di Aussie’ crime a thing too? Crime is crime. People who want to explain it away because of race/culture have a problem.

 

[Yawkey way]

What load of shit.

Tell that to indigenous Australians, victims of domestic violence or parents of one punch victims...

Why do you say that it’s widely researched with many peer reviewed articles based on big numbers over many years in some instances.

Of course there are many more about the adverse affects of alcohol abuse which is what you’ve listed above, but both are perfectly valid. You put the question why is alcohol legal and not other drugs, i thought it was a decent response. There’s a tremendous amount of research being done on cannabis I assume it took quite a lot to get it legalised in so many places, you’ll undoubtedly find reports on the adverse affects of abuse as well.

I’m not a fan that alcohol is so widely advertised just the same as I can’t stand the almost constant gambling advertisements but if we start banning things because some people abuse them imo we’re on a very slippery slope.

 

[Yawkey way]

What about ‘Italian’ crime? Or ‘Vietnamese’ crime? Is ‘Dinky Di Aussie’ crime a thing too? Crime is crime. People who want to explain it away because of race/culture have a problem.

We collect data on everything it helps us plan for the future and identity problems as they arise.

We’ve lived through Mafia beat ups and similar, every time a guy with an Italian background commits a crime it’s mob or mafia related according to the media, shit we had a really popular series portraying a bunch of crims as organised crime boses.

People will use the stats to allocate resources to help address what appears to be a problem then we’ll see what impact it has, until then in our 24/7 news cycle expect everything to be reported fairly or otherwise to generate maximum clicks.

It’s uncomfortable and seems racist at first glance but it’s perfectly valid to keep stats on all the various diaspora, it’s not just crime stats and really does get put to good use.

 

[Drake Huggins]

I’m sorry but I can’t find that on the abs site at all, I get 5 per 100,000 as direct cause that’s about 1,300 plus per year, 10 per 100,000 listed as a secondary or contributing factor 2,800 total 4,186 mentioned in a coronial report or certified by a doctor.

I’m probably looking at the wrong report this is deaths due to harmful alcohol consumption in Australia it’s part of the wider report causes of death in Australia 2017. I’ve long known about the abuse of perscription drugs and I’ve seen some scandalous docos and reports on big pharma and their practices.

What I’m looking at seems unbelievably low that’s why I was interested, my daughters supervising professor does a lot of research into alcohol including advertising.

Hi Yawkey way. Sorry ro send you on the wild goose chase. The original figures came from the NHMRC quoting the ABS. I'll check with my thauthes (sorry Caro). I'll check if it was direct or major contribUting factor, although i believe it is the former.

 

[gringo2011]

We collect data on everything it helps us plan for the future and identity problems as they arise.

We’ve lived through Mafia beat ups and similar, every time a guy with an Italian background commits a crime it’s mob or mafia related according to the media, shit we had a really popular series portraying a bunch of crims as organised crime boses.

People will use the stats to allocate resources to help address what appears to be a problem then we’ll see what impact it has, until then in our 24/7 news cycle expect everything to be reported fairly or otherwise to generate maximum clicks.

It’s uncomfortable and seems racist at first glance but it’s perfectly valid to keep stats on all the various diaspora, it’s not just crime stats and really does get put to good use.

I get that but when I look at my kids friends it's hard to pin point what an Aussie is. My son's got a best mate who's third generation Greek Australian who is blond so looks like a surfer, a mate who's mum is half Maori but looks like a straight white caucasian, a half Japanese mate, a half Cook Islander mate, a mate with 2 parents born in Isreal, a mate who might be Iraqi at a guess, an Indian heritage kid and a heap of others of diverse backgrounds including Italian and Slav. He's half Croat so it's not exactly very straight as to what to class a lot of them as. Most of them are either caucasian looking or very integrated into Australian life. His footy and basketball clubs are a real mixed bag of backgrounds too.

These African kids will probably take a few generations to mix in but will end up like these guys. We have a friend who's parents are Vietnamese immigrants but she's more Aussie the I am.

My daughter has friends from Egyptian, Burundian, French, Singaporean, Japanese etc backgrounds too. It's not easy to categorise people any more.

 

[Gangnam Saint]

Thought the stats were the Sudanese are .1% of the population but make up 1% of the crimes.

Not sure if this is correct but believe that's what Wahleed Aly quoted.

Important to be straight on the facts as a starting point.

 

[CursingFijian]

We collect data on everything it helps us plan for the future and identity problems as they arise.

We’ve lived through Mafia beat ups and similar, every time a guy with an Italian background commits a crime it’s mob or mafia related according to the media, shit we had a really popular series portraying a bunch of crims as organised crime boses.

People will use the stats to allocate resources to help address what appears to be a problem then we’ll see what impact it has, until then in our 24/7 news cycle expect everything to be reported fairly or otherwise to generate maximum clicks.

It’s uncomfortable and seems racist at first glance but it’s perfectly valid to keep stats on all the various diaspora, it’s not just crime stats and really does get put to good use.

I get that but when I look at my kids friends it's hard to pin point what an Aussie is. My son's got a best mate who's third generation Greek Australian who is blond so looks like a surfer, a mate who's mum is half Maori but looks like a straight white caucasian, a half Japanese mate, a half Cook Islander mate, a mate with 2 parents born in Isreal, a mate who might be Iraqi at a guess, an Indian heritage kid and a heap of others of diverse backgrounds including Italian and Slav. He's half Croat so it's not exactly very straight as to what to class a lot of them as. Most of them are either caucasian looking or very integrated into Australian life. His footy and basketball clubs are a real mixed bag of backgrounds too.

These African kids will probably take a few generations to mix in but will end up like these guys. We have a friend who's parents are Vietnamese immigrants but she's more Aussie the I am.

My daughter has friends from Egyptian, Burundian, French, Singaporean, Japanese etc backgrounds too. It's not easy to categorise people any more.

All power to the Australian government and it's police force in gathering and using data to combat crime.

As long as we recognize that we are all products of our environment; our behaviors reflect where we have come from, what we have endured, and the teachings/lessons we have learned, combined with the current circumstances in which we exist. Our behavior is not a product of skin color and or culture and I object to anybody that insinuates that. When Crusty says to me that 1 in 10 Sudanese people are committing crime, my first thought is that they are struggling somehow and need more or better support.

Like gringo has pointed out Australia will become richer for opening it's arms to Sudanese refugees. There may be some short term pain, as Yawkey alluded to in his post, that communities have to endure. But we will be better on so many levels (sporting/art/literarture/science/film/cuisine/dance/justice/governance) for it. It took me many years to feel accepted as an Australian. Not so my grand children; they don't know how to be anything else.

 

[Yawkey way]

I get that but when I look at my kids friends it's hard to pin point what an Aussie is. My son's got a best mate who's third generation Greek Australian who is blond so looks like a surfer, a mate who's mum is half Maori but looks like a straight white caucasian, a half Japanese mate, a half Cook Islander mate, a mate with 2 parents born in Isreal, a mate who might be Iraqi at a guess, an Indian heritage kid and a heap of others of diverse backgrounds including Italian and Slav. He's half Croat so it's not exactly very straight as to what to class a lot of them as. Most of them are either caucasian looking or very integrated into Australian life. His footy and basketball clubs are a real mixed bag of backgrounds too.

These African kids will probably take a few generations to mix in but will end up like these guys. We have a friend who's parents are Vietnamese immigrants but she's more Aussie the I am.

My daughter has friends from Egyptian, Burundian, French, Singaporean, Japanese etc backgrounds too. It's not easy to categorise people any more.

Yep it’s the same with my youngest his friends are like the United Nations.

The really funny and pleasing thing is I ask where is x from and he doesn’t have a clue sometimes because he doesn’t give a rats. Now my daughters went to a very white girls school in Brighton and their friends reflect that, it’s not intentional it just is what it is.

Now the stats are pretty simple really it all comes down to how you identify yourself when asked on census forms etc. I assume at some point people just put mum and dad both born in Australia I don’t recall how much it asks after that. I think the last one was your nationality, your parents and maybe grand parents maybe not. The government and the abs put in a fair amount of work with input from many stakeholders get get the census right.

I might add the ABS do a hell of a lot that isn’t related to the census, there’s all sorts of data being collected from industry statistics down. Bottom line though is rubbish in rubbish out so if it’s not meeting the needs of the end users it’s redesigned or amended so it can.

 

[DGontheQT]

Thought the stats were the Sudanese are .1% of the population but make up 1% of the crimes.
Important to be straight on the facts as a starting point.

OK , here are the facts then , Collingwood supporters make up 10% of the population , but account for 50% of the crimes and 75% of dental Surgery bookings.

 

[Crusty Undies]

Wasn't it 1%? That's 1 in 100 not 1 in 10.

Typo sorry, wrote it on my phone.

 

[Crusty Undies]

By choosing to focus on their race rather than other areas of differentiation like socio economic or geography it is literally a racial issue.

Talking about race isn't necessarily racist though.

 

[Crusty Undies]

What about ‘Italian’ crime? Or ‘Vietnamese’ crime? Is ‘Dinky Di Aussie’ crime a thing too? Crime is crime. People who want to explain it away because of race/culture have a problem.

That's not what statistics suggest. But you keep preaching about how it's racist to point out trends, why not ask Sweden how it's going for them?

 

[gringo2011]

That's not what statistics suggest. But you keep preaching about how it's racist to point out trends, why not ask Sweden how it's going for them?

What's happened in Sweden?

 

[CursingFijian]

That's not what statistics suggest. But you keep preaching about how it's racist to point out trends, why not ask Sweden how it's going for them?

I didn't think I was accusing anybody of being racist. If I inferred that I apologize. I just wanted to make the point that bad behavior is NOT a product of skin color or culture. And I feel obligated to point that out when people use logic that infers that dubious link.

I get where you are coming from, Crusty. I really do. And I am not trying to debase the statistics or the trends that you are pointing out. Sudanese offenders are over represented relative to their population share.



But they aren't the only group that is over represented. And there are other considerations that afflict the Sudanese community that most people gloss over.

• Victorian Sudanese are 7 times more likely to have had zero educational attainment compared to other Victorians
• 80% of the Victorian Sudanese population arrived in the years 2001 - 2010. And while that might seem like a long time, my personal exprience tells me they are still adjusting to Australia.
• 50.2% of the Sudanese community in Victoria is under the age of 26, which is an exceptional skew when you look at general Victorian population demographic trends, and that alone would create certain anomalies in crime representation.
• The unemployment rate for the Victorian Sudanese is at a staggering 31.2% as against 5.4% for the total Victorian population which will have profound consequences on behavior.
• 55.7% of Victorian Sudanese earn less than $399 per week in personal income. Then you consider that 33.2% of Victorian Sudanese live in one parent families (as against 10.6% Victoria wide) there must be an exceptional number of Sudanese that are fair dinkum 'battlers'.

The statistics also show that you are twice as likely to be a victim of a crime committed by a Kiwi offender. And sixty times more likely to be a victim of a crime committed by an Australian.



I'm not even going to get into the Swedish debate, not because it proves your point but, I just don't have the energy.

The rhetoric that is surrounding the Sudanese community is old and tiresome. I, we, have heard it all before with the poms, and the Italians, and the Greeks, and the Asians (Menzies won several federal elections campaigning against the 'Yellow Peril'), and the Lebanese, and the Kiwis, and the Vietnamese, and the Indians, and the Chinese, and the South Africans. Lo and behold every single migration wave has ended up creating a bigger, more vibrant, stronger Australia.

I have an undeniable bias based on my own experiences. But, I just don't care for the narrative that Australia is the best country on Earth, because of tough immigration laws, long may they continue. That's me being me. You keep being you.

 

[Crusty Undies]

What's happened in Sweden?

Rampant crime committed by immigrants at an unprecedebted rate. Couple months ago a refugee threw a live grenade into a police station for example. I'll link some more stats later but I'm gonna watch the Fury vs Wilder fight now sorey.

 

[Crusty Undies]

I didn't think I was accusing anybody of being racist. If I inferred that I apologize. I just wanted to make the point that bad behavior is NOT a product of skin color or culture. And I feel obligated to point that out when people use logic that infers that dubious link.

I get where you are coming from, Crusty. I really do. And I am not trying to debase the statistics or the trends that you are pointing out. Sudanese offenders are over represented relative to their population share.

View attachment 591244

But they aren't the only group that is over represented. And there are other considerations that afflict the Sudanese community that most people gloss over.

• Victorian Sudanese are 7 times more likely to have had zero educational attainment compared to other Victorians
• 80% of the Victorian Sudanese population arrived in the years 2001 - 2010. And while that might seem like a long time, my personal exprience tells me they are still adjusting to Australia.
• 50.2% of the Sudanese community in Victoria is under the age of 26, which is an exceptional skew when you look at general Victorian population demographic trends, and that alone would create certain anomalies in crime representation.
• The unemployment rate for the Victorian Sudanese is at a staggering 31.2% as against 5.4% for the total Victorian population which will have profound consequences on behavior.
• 55.7% of Victorian Sudanese earn less than $399 per week in personal income. Then you consider that 33.2% of Victorian Sudanese live in one parent families (as against 10.6% Victoria wide) there must be an exceptional number of Sudanese that are fair dinkum 'battlers'.

The statistics also show that you are twice as likely to be a victim of a crime committed by a Kiwi offender. And sixty times more likely to be a victim of a crime committed by an Australian.

View attachment 591243

I'm not even going to get into the Swedish debate, not because it proves your point but, I just don't have the energy.

The rhetoric that is surrounding the Sudanese community is old and tiresome. I, we, have heard it all before with the poms, and the Italians, and the Greeks, and the Asians (Menzies won several federal elections campaigning against the 'Yellow Peril'), and the Lebanese, and the Kiwis, and the Vietnamese, and the Indians, and the Chinese, and the South Africans. Lo and behold every single migration wave has ended up creating a bigger, more vibrant, stronger Australia.

I have an undeniable bias based on my own experiences. But, I just don't care for the narrative that Australia is the best country on Earth, because of tough immigration laws, long may they continue. That's me being me. You keep being you.

All good! I don't disagree with you for the most part except your last bit. I don't think Australia has become bigger and more vibrant as a result of the last 20 years of immigration because it's different. When the poms, the italians and the greeks came. They were moving from a western country to a western country. When the asians, viets and indonesians came they fully recognised they were moving from a worse country to a better one. But the Middle Easterners and Africans don't believe that. They believe that they were forced to move by the west, Australia has become more dangerous in the last 20 years, not more vibrant. I don't think I'm going to convince you though and the boxing is about to start so I'll talk later if you're still interested

 

[MUFKilda]

I didn't think I was accusing anybody of being racist. If I inferred that I apologize. I just wanted to make the point that bad behavior is NOT a product of skin color or culture. And I feel obligated to point that out when people use logic that infers that dubious link.

I get where you are coming from, Crusty. I really do. And I am not trying to debase the statistics or the trends that you are pointing out. Sudanese offenders are over represented relative to their population share.

View attachment 591244

But they aren't the only group that is over represented. And there are other considerations that afflict the Sudanese community that most people gloss over.

• Victorian Sudanese are 7 times more likely to have had zero educational attainment compared to other Victorians
• 80% of the Victorian Sudanese population arrived in the years 2001 - 2010. And while that might seem like a long time, my personal exprience tells me they are still adjusting to Australia.
• 50.2% of the Sudanese community in Victoria is under the age of 26, which is an exceptional skew when you look at general Victorian population demographic trends, and that alone would create certain anomalies in crime representation.
• The unemployment rate for the Victorian Sudanese is at a staggering 31.2% as against 5.4% for the total Victorian population which will have profound consequences on behavior.
• 55.7% of Victorian Sudanese earn less than $399 per week in personal income. Then you consider that 33.2% of Victorian Sudanese live in one parent families (as against 10.6% Victoria wide) there must be an exceptional number of Sudanese that are fair dinkum 'battlers'.

The statistics also show that you are twice as likely to be a victim of a crime committed by a Kiwi offender. And sixty times more likely to be a victim of a crime committed by an Australian.

View attachment 591243

I'm not even going to get into the Swedish debate, not because it proves your point but, I just don't have the energy.

The rhetoric that is surrounding the Sudanese community is old and tiresome. I, we, have heard it all before with the poms, and the Italians, and the Greeks, and the Asians (Menzies won several federal elections campaigning against the 'Yellow Peril'), and the Lebanese, and the Kiwis, and the Vietnamese, and the Indians, and the Chinese, and the South Africans. Lo and behold every single migration wave has ended up creating a bigger, more vibrant, stronger Australia.

I have an undeniable bias based on my own experiences. But, I just don't care for the narrative that Australia is the best country on Earth, because of tough immigration laws, long may they continue. That's me being me. You keep being you.

Look at The Poms there: over 4% of the population but only 1% of the crime. Not surprised to see the Aussies over-represented for crime, given that's why we sent you there in the first place. Just a joke, just a joke

 

[StCicatriz]

ABS figure for 2016-17. One year in Australia, somewhat frighteningly. Deaths related to the use and abuse of alcohol. Cancers, liver disease, suicides, heart disease and brain damage. A national disgrace. These figures are kept well hidden because of the enormous amounts of tax the government reaps from the industry. Its use is so widespread that to tax it the way smoking is, would cause a riot. An election loser for sure, which is the main concern of our political masters. Why are there no pictures of the consequences of drinking on booze bottles the way there are on cigarette packets? Why not plain labelling and crippling taxes? It would curb the problem and make a huge difference to our economy, unburden our health system, not to mention the social benefits it would bring.

The abuse of prescription drugs kills eight times as many Australians as illegal drugs do, it is estimated. The real number is probably double that, according to those in the Health industry. The most dangerous place to be in Australia, if you're trying to stay alive is a hospital. Mistakes, negligence, incorrect medications etc. account for about 17,000 deaths a year, although the real number is probably way higher. Voluntary doctor-assisted euthanasia is a daily fact of life. I don't know what all the fuss is about with anti-euthanasia laws. They've been doing it since man began walking upright. A bit like abortion. Get it out in the open and regulate. Fewer botched suicides and therefore less distress all round.

The war on drugs is, like almost every war, fake. Engineered by those in positions of power to manipulate the population and generate profit. First as a copper, then as a psych. I've seen a number of sides and all of them have brought me to the same conclusion. The pharmaceutical industry and their corrupt relationships with doctors should be on the list for future Royal Commissions. Have you ever noticed how jealously the AMA protects its power bases? Why are they the only ones who can write prescriptions and decide what drugs should be administered? Nurses have been given very limited privileges in this area, mainly due to convenience and reduction of costs, rather than professional recognition or patient welfare.

Most GPs, especially those who work in the bulk-billing barns, are merely dispensers of product. You should cut out the middleman and go straight to the pharmacy. Next time you're in the GP's, have a look at how much of the office and equipment has marketing materials from big Pharma on it. Most offices are almost entirely fitted out in this way. I know this because one of my best mates is a GP who has set up his own successful practice. A veritable goldmine. The added bonus is he gets all sorts of delightful freebies all year around. These include cruises and overseas holidays disguised as conferences and information forums. Factor in The free lunches twice weekly from the pharma sales reps. And we all know there's no such thing as a free lunch.

boomers and alcohol. not a good pairing. for all the shade they throw at the younger generation, they're completely ignorant as to how big their issues with alcohol are. i know that's a generalisation so it wont apply to everyone but across the board, their alcohol use and stress they put on the health care system is completely ****ed.

people seem to be more concerned with ciggies and fast food than people literally drinking everyday.