Discussion Random Discussion

[Nutsngum]

Either she's a massive troll or it's all reactionary for the sake of being different to her parents. I dunno though could it really be a troll when you write a couple books and spill the same hateful rhetoric day in and day out?

FWIW I'd say I'm a centrist too.

Ford has pretty massive father issues and it really shows once you're aware of it. My biggest issue with Ford is that I largely agree with her but I despise the way she attempts to get it across. Does this country have issues with violence against women? Absolutely. Should we blame the entirety of men within the scope of social acceptance? Absolutely not. It is absolutely an anger fuelled point of view that in the long run is going to actually very little to affect social change.

 

[Crusty Undies]

Ford has pretty massive father issues and it really shows once you're aware of it. My biggest issue with Ford is that I largely agree with her but I despise the way she attempts to get it across. Does this country have issues with violence against women? Absolutely. Should we blame the entirety of men within the scope of social acceptance? Absolutely not. It is absolutely an anger fuelled point of view that in the long run is going to actually very little to affect social change.

Domestic violence has fallen 75% since 1995. Reports have risen slightly since 2010 but that's likely due to overwhelming publicity leading to more reporting. There is a 0.102% chance of being the victim of sexual or physical assault in Australia and roughly 1 third of those are DV cases, which gives about a 0.034% chance of being the victim of sexual or physical assault from a significant other. That's about 1 in 3,000 not counting that roughly a third or so of those are men.

Any violence is wrong but to say that "Australia has a problem with DV" implying that in particular Domestic Violence is more prevalent than other kinds of crime is incorrect. Australia has some of the lowest DV rates worldwide.

All stats are from the ABS.

I'll also link this: http://www.oneinthree.com.au/infographic/

Some of the more important stats though are:
1 in 3 victims of domestic homicide in Australia are male
1 in 3 victims of violence from an intimate partner are male
1 in 3 victims of violence from a cohabiting partner are male
46% of emotional abuse victims by a partner are male

This is obviously something I'm passionate about so sorry if I come across as rude or anything I just dislike misinformation being spread about issues such as this where people think it only happens to women and it's always men hurting people. Everyone is just as capable of being a good or shit person as anyone else.

 

[MUFKilda]

Domestic violence has fallen 75% since 1995. Reports have risen slightly since 2010 but that's likely due to overwhelming publicity leading to more reporting. There is a 0.102% chance of being the victim of sexual or physical assault in Australia and roughly 1 third of those are DV cases, which gives about a 0.034% chance of being the victim of sexual or physical assault from a significant other. That's about 1 in 3,000 not counting that roughly a third or so of those are men.

Any violence is wrong but to say that "Australia has a problem with DV" implying that in particular Domestic Violence is more prevalent than other kinds of crime is incorrect. Australia has some of the lowest DV rates worldwide.

All stats are from the ABS.

I'll also link this: http://www.oneinthree.com.au/infographic/

Some of the more important stats though are:
1 in 3 victims of domestic homicide in Australia are male
1 in 3 victims of violence from an intimate partner are male
1 in 3 victims of violence from a cohabiting partner are male
46% of emotional abuse victims by a partner are male

This is obviously something I'm passionate about so sorry if I come across as rude or anything I just dislike misinformation being spread about issues such as this where people think it only happens to women and it's always men hurting people. Everyone is just as capable of being a good or shit person as anyone else.

You have to be very careful with statistics e.g. '1 in 3 victims of domestic homicide in Australia are male' obviously means 2 out of 3 are women.

What's more, the type of violence experienced is often very different. A man can do far more physical damage to a woman than vice versa, so the type of violence experienced is of a different order. If my wife hit me as hard as she can, I'd feel it and might bruise; but if I hit her as hard as I can, I likely cause enormous damage. This also means the psychological terror - the fear of violence - will be of a different order.

I'm not downplaying domestic violence against men, merely saying the vast majority of domestic violence, rape, psychological abuse is done by men to women, and the seriousness of the abuse if often of a different magnitude.

 

[gringo2011]

You have to be very careful with statistics e.g. '1 in 3 victims of domestic homicide in Australia are male' obviously means 2 out of 3 are women.

What's more, the type of violence experienced is often very different. A man can do far more physical damage to a woman than vice versa, so the type of violence experienced is of a different order. If my wife hit me as hard as she can, I'd feel it and might bruise; but if I hit her as hard as I can, I likely cause enormous damage. This also means the psychological terror - the fear of violence - will be of a different order.

I'm not downplaying domestic violence against men, merely saying the vast majority of domestic violence, rape, psychological abuse is done by men to women, and the seriousness of the abuse if often of a different magnitude.

Yeah, I doubt there are many men scared to leave because a woman would track them down and kill them or hurt them. There would still be a much higher amount of women in fear of their life of safety than the other way around. The stats don't look like quite a third but higher than I imagined still.

• 1 in 6 (1.6 million) women and 1 in 16 (500,000) men have experienced physical and/or sexual violence by a cohabiting partner since age 15.
• 1 woman a week and 1 man a month were killed by a current or former partner in the two years from 2012-13 to 2013-14.
• 2,800 women and 560 men were hospitalised in 2014-15 after being assaulted by a spouse or partner.
• 72,000 women, 34,000 children and 9,000 men sought homelessness services in 2016-17 due to family/domestic violence.
• Intimate partner violence causes more illness, disability and deaths than any other risk factor for women aged 25-44.
• 1 in 5 (1.7 million) women and 1 in 20 (429,000) men have been sexually assaulted and/or threatened since age 15.
• 1 in 6 (1.5 million) women and 1 in 9 (992,000) men were physically and/or sexually abused before the age of 15.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-02...ls-extent-of-domestic-violence-crisis/9492026

 

[Crusty Undies]

You have to be very careful with statistics e.g. '1 in 3 victims of domestic homicide in Australia are male' obviously means 2 out of 3 are women.

What's more, the type of violence experienced is often very different. A man can do far more physical damage to a woman than vice versa, so the type of violence experienced is of a different order. If my wife hit me as hard as she can, I'd feel it and might bruise; but if I hit her as hard as I can, I likely cause enormous damage. This also means the psychological terror - the fear of violence - will be of a different order.

I'm not downplaying domestic violence against men, merely saying the vast majority of domestic violence, rape, psychological abuse is done by men to women, and the seriousness of the abuse if often of a different magnitude.

Men can cause more physical damage with no weapons for sure but I don't think that makes such a huge difference, men are even less likely to retaliate to DV than women and women are more likely to use weapons in DV cases. I'm not trying to downplay either btw, I hope that's clear. I'm just pointing out that specifically domestic violence against women isn't a larger problem than really any other violence related problem in Australia. I'm just getting a bit sick of seeing all this propaganda that 1 in 3 or 1 in 4 women will experience DV or sexual assault it's just patently untrue and implicitly paints all Aussie men as evil misogynists stuck in the 50s.

 

[gringo2011]

Ford has pretty massive father issues and it really shows once you're aware of it. My biggest issue with Ford is that I largely agree with her but I despise the way she attempts to get it across. Does this country have issues with violence against women? Absolutely. Should we blame the entirety of men within the scope of social acceptance? Absolutely not. It is absolutely an anger fuelled point of view that in the long run is going to actually very little to affect social change.

Yeah, people like Ford and Peterson tend to preach to the converted and are more likely to cement peoples already formed opinions in a very black and white way. There seems to be a real thirst for their kind of extremely one sided viewpoints that allow people to justify their rigid views because the author speaks with a sense of authority. I was always taught to be a critical thinker, life generally isn't black and white so people who are polarisers are pretty limited in their contributions to discourse.

 

[gringo2011]

Men can cause more physical damage with no weapons for sure but I don't think that makes such a huge difference, men are even less likely to retaliate to DV than women and women are more likely to use weapons in DV cases. I'm not trying to downplay either btw, I hope that's clear. I'm just pointing out that specifically domestic violence against women isn't a larger problem than really any other violence related problem in Australia. I'm just getting a bit sick of seeing all this propaganda that 1 in 3 or 1 in 4 women will experience DV or sexual assault it's just patently untrue and implicitly paints all Aussie men as evil misogynists stuck in the 50s.

I don't see that from publicising it. It should be unacceptable but I don't know how you can actually stop it as a society. You can provide services that house people escaping it and give loans to get out or something but I think it's probably deep seated psychological issues about abandonment and isolation or financial pressures that are root causes. Like being tough on crime doesn't actually have a great deterrent effect, just publicising it isn't really doing much at all.

I can see why the shaming men for masculinity doesn't work, even on Bigfooty I find if you get pulled up for stepping outside the group-think you tend to solidify your viewpoint instead of suddenly becoming aware of how unreasonable you point of view is. If feminists could find a way to make men feel included in way to change things they might get a better result. I think some men definitely feel like they have conformed to societies standards already and are still being told they are bad by association.

That leads to a backlash and people like Jordan Peterson or Proud Boys who say it's okay to be a massive dickhead and shit on other people gain appeal as a way of saying **** you. Unfortunately the internet is a very immediate form of communication and with algorithms that direct content that is likely to confirm your existing view point it's not going to change anytime soon.

 

[Crusty Undies]

I don't see that from publicising it. It should be unacceptable but I don't know how you can actually stop it as a society. You can provide services that house people escaping it and give loans to get out or something but I think it's probably deep seated psychological issues about abandonment and isolation or financial pressures that are root causes. Like being tough on crime doesn't actually have a great deterrent effect, just publicising it isn't really doing much at all.

I can see why the shaming men for masculinity doesn't work, even on Bigfooty I find if you get pulled up for stepping outside the group-think you tend to solidify your viewpoint instead of suddenly becoming aware of how unreasonable you point of view is. If feminists could find a way to make men feel included in way to change things they might get a better result. I think some men definitely feel like they have conformed to societies standards already and are still being told they are bad by association.

That leads to a backlash and people like Jordan Peterson or Proud Boys who say it's okay to be a massive dickhead and shit on other people gain appeal as a way of saying **** you. Unfortunately the internet is a very immediate form of communication and with algorithms that direct content that is likely to confirm your existing view point it's not going to change anytime soon.

I think you're mixing Jordan Peterson up with an amalgamation of Gavin McInnes, Clementine Ford and Donal Trump... He's literally nothing like any of them and I know exactly how you got this idea because the media's been peddling it since Bill C-16 in Canada. I'm not a fanboy but I have massive respect for him, he's the only Canadian who stood up for free speech when being told to use certain language or face legal ramifications. Again though, he's left wing on everything except social policies. He's anti-feminist as any rational person nowadays should be. Feminism isn't about equality anymore, it's about women getting the advantages that typically women got but also get the advantages that men typically got. They want it both ways and no one is willing to call them out for fear of being called a bigot or a misogynist and being grouped as another right wing Hitler or something. From what you've said so far though I'm going to hazard a guess that you haven't really heard anything Peterson has said, I'm open to the idea that he's a snakeoil salesman but he's about as far from the peiple you've grouped him with as any under the sun.

 

[Kildonan]

I think you're mixing Jordan Peterson up with an amalgamation of Gavin McInnes, Clementine Ford and Donal Trump... He's literally nothing like any of them and I know exactly how you got this idea because the media's been peddling it since Bill C-16 in Canada. I'm not a fanboy but I have massive respect for him, he's the only Canadian who stood up for free speech when being told to use certain language or face legal ramifications. Again though, he's left wing on everything except social policies. He's anti-feminist as any rational person nowadays should be. Feminism isn't about equality anymore, it's about women getting the advantages that typically women got but also get the advantages that men typically got. They want it both ways and no one is willing to call them out for fear of being called a bigot or a misogynist and being grouped as another right wing Hitler or something. From what you've said so far though I'm going to hazard a guess that you haven't really heard anything Peterson has said, I'm open to the idea that he's a snakeoil salesman but he's about as far from the peiple you've grouped him with as any under the sun.

Wow - I couldn't disagree with you more

 

[Crusty Undies]

Wow - I couldn't disagree with you more

So you think Bill C-16 was a good thing? Forcing people to use preferred pronouns or face legal consequences? Or maybe you think it's a good thing that feminism has turned into a man hating dogma filled with people who spill the same keywords whenever you question their ideas? Or maybe you disagree that he's left wing despite him saying he supports a social state and that the left is the body that reigns in exploitative companies and governments, and that he agrees climate change is anthropogenic?

 

[MUFKilda]

Men can cause more physical damage with no weapons for sure but I don't think that makes such a huge difference, men are even less likely to retaliate to DV than women and women are more likely to use weapons in DV cases. I'm not trying to downplay either btw, I hope that's clear. I'm just pointing out that specifically domestic violence against women isn't a larger problem than really any other violence related problem in Australia. I'm just getting a bit sick of seeing all this propaganda that 1 in 3 or 1 in 4 women will experience DV or sexual assault it's just patently untrue and implicitly paints all Aussie men as evil misogynists stuck in the 50s.

I don't know what the figures are, but I would take a guess that domestic violence in Australia occurs at around the same rate as comparable societies, such as here in the UK. Statistics are great for elucidating the scale of a problem, but, of course, we have to be careful about how figures are methodologically collected and then presented.

How many women, for example, are long-term and persistently violent to their partners, and, by contrast, how many incidents of female violence occur in self-defence or whilst protecting the children? Of course there are women who abuse their partner regularly and for a sustained period, but I strongly suspect (though I don't have the figures) that a large majority of the most chronic and serious DV cases are done by men towards women. There are many cases where a battered woman finally reaches her breaking point and puts a knife though her partner, for example, and that point is she then also considered a perpetrator of DV? That isn't to dismiss the terrible situation of those men who live in fear constantly for years on end; I merely make the point again that statistics need to be as detailed as possible, in order to provide the best possible picture.

 

[Crusty Undies]

I don't know what the figures are, but I would take a guess that domestic violence in Australia occurs at around the same rate as comparable societies, such as here in the UK. Statistics are great for elucidating the scale of a problem, but, of course, we have to be careful about how figures are methodologically collected and then presented.

How many women, for example, are long-term and persistently violent to their partners, and, by contrast, how many incidents of female violence occur in self-defence or whilst protecting the children? Of course there are women who abuse their partner regularly and for a sustained period, but I strongly suspect (though I don't have the figures) that a large majority of the most chronic and serious DV cases are done by men towards women. There are many cases where a battered woman finally reaches her breaking point and puts a knife though her partner, for example, and that point is she then also considered a perpetrator of DV? That isn't to dismiss the terrible situation of those men who live in fear constantly for years on end; I merely make the point again that statistics need to be as detailed as possible, in order to provide the best possible picture.

Check out the website I linked before they actually have very detailed stats they just provide alternative fractions to more easily represent the ratios. Also, all the stats I got from the ABS (Australian Bureau of Statistics). I don't really see what the point of speculating like you've done is though, I mean i could just as eaaily speculate that many, many, many more men never report DV from a female partner for fear of being joked about or brushed off. Or that men go through exceedingly more emotional abuse than women, due to the nature of men and women (women are more likely to attempt to manipulate people in a relationship with them). But speculating does nothing, unless you actually have stats. Also some of the examples you used aren't really relevant, a partner in a relationship who's been abused and eventually lashes out would often be acquitted as self defence and I doubt that would count as Domestic Violence as related to these stats.

 

[MUFKilda]

Check out the website I linked before they actually have very detailed stats they just provide alternative fractions to more easily represent the ratios. Also, all the stats I got from the ABS (Australian Bureau of Statistics). I don't really see what the point of speculating like you've done is though, I mean i could just as eaaily speculate that many, many, many more men never report DV from a female partner for fear of being joked about or brushed off. Or that men go through exceedingly more emotional abuse than women, due to the nature of men and women (women are more likely to attempt to manipulate people in a relationship with them). But speculating does nothing, unless you actually have stats. Also some of the examples you used aren't really relevant, a partner in a relationship who's been abused and eventually lashes out would often be acquitted as self defence and I doubt that would count as Domestic Violence as related to these stats.

That's what I'm asking: are cases of self-defence included in the figures as instances of domestic violence?

You could well be right that men are less likely to report being a victim of DV, due to feelings of shame - makes perfect sense.

Point is the evidence demonstrates that women remain much more at risk of DV and serious injury at the hands of a partner; something which, sadly, will probably always be the case.

By the way, I don't agree that women are more likely to be emotionally abusive, hence the majority of those victims are men. What is the evidence for that? Psychological abuse/terror/controlling behaviour caused by fear of violence is something victims will endure alongside the acts of violence; the majority of which are against women.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

Add an ice epidemic to the mix and its just a great little recipe.

 

[gringo2011]

Interesting article the will probably blow up debate again

Climate change will shrink US economy and kill thousands, government report warns CNN

https://edition.cnn.com/2018/11/23/...cNN_XipbqwmH6lDDRYP1cVnRjlihXGTodEcVKezDgQVtM

 

[gringo2011]

Yeah he used to be. Then moved onto the Oakleigh Chargers.

His second half of this year was super impressive. First round material. If he had done that for the entire year he could've got picked up a lot earlier.

Really hope he makes it...their family are great people and have known them for more than 20 years.

I think that's how it goes, I remember Tyrone Vickery left for a bigger club when he showed promise.

 

[George]

I think that's how it goes, I remember Tyrone Vickery left for a bigger club when he showed promise.

Yep. Funnily enough I played alongside him too at the Bears for 2 years in Under 9's!

 

[gringo2011]

Yep. Funnily enough I played alongside him too at the Bears for 2 years in Under 9's!

My son might leave the Bear cave next year to play soccer, I'm devastated, hoped he'd grow up to play AFL for the Saints but he's a better soccer player. Tried out for the Glen Eira A grade side last week because his mate who's played there last year, little shit didn't even train for it and kicked 3 goals and set up one out of 5 scored total and was playing midfield. I think he arsed it and still has one trial to get through but he's always been pretty good at it. Proud but in mourning for my vicarious dream.

 

[George]

My son might leave the Bear cave next year to play soccer, I'm devastated, hoped he'd grow up to play AFL for the Saints but he's a better soccer player. Tried out for the Glen Eira A grade side last week because his mate who's played there last year, little shit didn't even train for it and kicked 3 goals and set up one out of 5 scored total and was playing midfield. I think he arsed it and still has one trial to get through but he's always been pretty good at it. Proud but in mourning for my vicarious dream.

You never know mate it may work out for the best. Atu was going to go to Rugby Union, and was training with the Melbourne Rebels. Decided to convert to AFL and it worked out for him.

 

[Nutsngum]

I was a little bit worried it might be a close election.. but I was not expecting the Libs to get absolutely obliterated like this.

 

[gringo2011]

I was a little bit worried it might be a close election.. but I was not expecting the Libs to get absolutely obliterated like this.

Yep, they got trounced. Guy is a sleazy crim, karma bit him on the arse.

 

[CursingFijian]

Allez le Blanch!

 

[Drake Huggins]

Domestic violence has fallen 75% since 1995. Reports have risen slightly since 2010 but that's likely due to overwhelming publicity leading to more reporting. There is a 0.102% chance of being the victim of sexual or physical assault in Australia and roughly 1 third of those are DV cases, which gives about a 0.034% chance of being the victim of sexual or physical assault from a significant other. That's about 1 in 3,000 not counting that roughly a third or so of those are men.

Any violence is wrong but to say that "Australia has a problem with DV" implying that in particular Domestic Violence is more prevalent than other kinds of crime is incorrect. Australia has some of the lowest DV rates worldwide.

All stats are from the ABS.

I'll also link this: http://www.oneinthree.com.au/infographic/

Some of the more important stats though are:
1 in 3 victims of domestic homicide in Australia are male
1 in 3 victims of violence from an intimate partner are male
1 in 3 victims of violence from a cohabiting partner are male
46% of emotional abuse victims by a partner are male

This is obviously something I'm passionate about so sorry if I come across as rude or anything I just dislike misinformation being spread about issues such as this where people think it only happens to women and it's always men hurting people. Everyone is just as capable of being a good or shit person as anyone else.

Never be afraid to state the truth, Crusty Undies. It's a relief to see someone provide Some balance to the argument. Our society has a problem with violence, both physical and emotional. What bothers me is the Level of violence against children. As most of this abuse is perpetrated by women, it rarely gets covered in the media. It doesn't fit the narrative. 85 % of charges of child abuse are laid against women (source ABS). Neither gender owns this issue completely. The solution is not the demonisation of men and young boys. A bit of truth and balance would be far more useful than the misandrist garbage we're fed by the media.

 

[mightymalaka]

Add an ice epidemic to the mix and its just a great little recipe.

Indeed!
An epidemic like most that does not discriminate between the sexes!

Trust me. The fairer sex on the gear is rampant out there!
And my experience tells me you should be just as fearful as
Any misogynist bogan out their dishing out their own rubbish!

I abhor DV in all its different guises but it's a debate that needs to have
Far more balance about it than what it currently has in our
Me too time!
Sick of the media and the social engineers out there jumping
On a very complicated scourge in all society and just
Shaming all men as if they are the only perpetrators!

 

[Yawkey way]

My son might leave the Bear cave next year to play soccer, I'm devastated, hoped he'd grow up to play AFL for the Saints but he's a better soccer player. Tried out for the Glen Eira A grade side last week because his mate who's played there last year, little shit didn't even train for it and kicked 3 goals and set up one out of 5 scored total and was playing midfield. I think he arsed it and still has one trial to get through but he's always been pretty good at it. Proud but in mourning for my vicarious dream.

You might surprise yourself and enjoy it, soccer isn’t the biggest game in the world because it’s crap to play and watch.

I used to like going to sth Melbourne when they were in the old national league it’s still a good night out, nice social club good food. The victory games are great and they have a good side this year with some quality players. I have a free pass into any FFV venue which is pretty handy, I get to a few games I really enjoy it.

There’s always hope gringo if he becomes a gun and has a change of heart we can grab him as a category B rookie.