Preview Rd 5, 2014 - Brisbane Lions v Richmond

[Skoob]

Why is it I get this when I try to quote TheBrownDog post earlier? Mods? Chief ?

I still got the "your post was quoted" alert too. Looks like a database quirk.

I've noticed it about 3 times this week.
The other day there was another 2000 random quote, I thought Balony_pony16 must have been on drugs.
I still think he is, but that's not what caused the weird quote.

 

[Lionator]

Just flew in!
Excited for tonight's game at the Gabba.
Never been before.
Little insight into hopefully what we can expect to see tonight, Nick called me to tell me he was playing and he said "Dad, I'm going in differently this week, I was nervous and second guessing myself a bit but this week I'm just going to do it"
Like some have posted, especially after Tockys comments last night, the thing I love is that it seems like the boys after 4 heavy losses aren't falling over on their own swords but digging in!!
If I can see that tonight, I'll be rapt!!
C'mon boys give ya best tonight.
Congrats to an out and out champion tonight! Browny your a once in a generation champion player of the toughest position on the ground!!

Thanks Robbo Senior!!
I love how your son goes about it already!

I think he was the steel of the draft. He's already showing extreme promise.

Cant wait to see what he develops into.
Gees I hope the Lions are making your family feel part of the club. We love your son already

 

[Kapital city TIGER]

I'm not sure leaving Goose, Polks, Raines or Crisp (or all of them) out means we're tanking.

I also don't think it would have much impact on the result by including those guys.

If we had all players available they probably wouldn't make the 22, so the choice we're left with is whether to play 4 second tier players, or see what the new guys are made of.

It's a tough call, but it's really not that crazy.

Excuse the intrusion,
Looking forward to this match, and very worried your young bunch will show my wobbly Tigers up.
At least you've got a bunch of injuries to excuse a woeful start, we've just got woefullness.

Looking forward to seeing how McGuane goes, he had a rep as a hack but gives his all, is a very strong mark and I expect him to end up with a few goals if you play him forward.
Some young talent always exciting, Leppa must know something!

Always a worry facing an ex coach, we've knocked off Hawthorn several times thank you Mr Hardwick, so I won't be surprised if you pinch this.

 

[GrayLion]

Clearly hysterical. Were we tanking in round 1 and 2 by not playing a specialist tagger?

Rocky said tonight on 360 they've identified three Richmond players to put extra work into... presumably two of those are Cotchin and Martin.

He said the plan is sometimes to directly restrict them, and sometimes to manipulate matchups to force them to be accountable the other way. The suggestion was that we prefer the latter because we can't really afford to weaken our offensive output any further. The match review apparently indicated that our defensive running was okay but the offensive running was well below what they are looking for. A pure defensive shutdown role might come at too much of a cost.



Kidding myself then. Pick a team from our available players that would look likely to win at the moment. And if you suggest Goose Maguire and Andrew Raines are the difference between a smashing and a win, then I don't think it is me kidding myself.

In my book, tanking is manipulating events to turn a likely win into a likely loss. Tanking isn't leaving out a couple of senior players (who wouldnt get a game in any other team) unlikely to be in your future plans whose only contribution would be turning an 80 point loss into a 60 point loss.

We don't have anything close to the available cattle to present up for a "likely win". So yeah, I'll probably take an 80 point loss with some blooding of future players than a 60 point loss where we forgo opportunities for player development for the sake of scoreboard damage minimisation.

I approve this post.

 

[Balony_pony16]

So if we were so intent on this youth policy, what was the purpose of giving Maguire and Polkinghorne one year extensions then?

It makes absolutely no sense whatsoever considering Maguire can't get a game in the current climate.

And I'm guessing we'll reward Merrett with immediate selection next week? Makes sense.

contract or not... Leppa is still getting to know his players. A one year extension for Polks at his age isnt really a glowing endorsement from the coaching group. Last chance salon year for polks and either he aint meeting expectations for someone of his quality or Leppa is really playing hard ball on him to try and flick that switch inside of him. Polks has had a pretty damm easy run in the AFL and "IF" he is going to make it then I would say Leppas tough love will play a huge role.

Goose is a standby forward... tall forwards are the one area we dont have a injury crisis. Not that I agree 100% with Gooses use/role in the squad. But im prepared to back the coaches atm

It would be nice for Leppa to be questioned on these issues post game to clear things up for the fans though

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[Balony_pony16]

My tanking comment is based around Gardiner coming into the team after an injury interrupted pre season, a few games in the 2s and then because it doesn't look like it is right for team balance.

Hinkley's approach to the older players was simply "I am not here to end careers, I am here to extend them" What sort of culture are we building on the track when players such as Raines, Maguire and Polkinghorne know that there is a red line through their names. I mean if they can't get a game now, they won't get one all year. Easy to say just play the young blokes, I am not saying these guys are world beaters, but not sure this sort of selection attitude does anything for your club in the long term. I think many clubs go down this path and their younger players flounder due to being exposed to senior footy too early.

I see the Value in your Hinkley reference. But comparing Goose, Raines, and polks to Cornes is a big stretch. Cornes is a elite runner even to this day, and is a past AA, B&F"s.

It should be noted that Hinkley ended Matt Thomas Port Career the day after winning the Macgarey Medal... Polks, Raines are below his standards

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[Balony_pony16]

I would have thought that at the very least they were required to fill list spots. Can't have 9 draftees I wouldn't think.

With an eye to the future I feel we dont gave much choice as we are absoulte stacked with draftees. Next year we will have another group of draftees and we need to get some progress into the current group before then


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[jackess]

People will be thankful when leppa works 50 games into Taylor, robbo, aish, culter, gardiner etc... it is obvious Leppa is bloody youngster's who have the qualities he wants to build the team around. Players like Raines will likely be delisted so people need to stop whinging about his exclusion each week. We could give him 15 games this season or use those on a youngster. Yes it will be a long few years but have some faith in a rebuild we needed years back. Get behind the boys!!!

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Melbourne supporters were probably thinking the same thing about when their youngsters got to 50 games.

 

[Dylan12]

With an eye to the future I feel we dont gave much choice as we are absoulte stacked with draftees. Next year we will have another group of draftees and we need to get some progress into the current group before then

Have we not had an eye for the future for at least the past five years in terms of trying to get games into the kids?

 

[Balony_pony16]

Melbourne supporters were probably thinking the same thing about when their youngsters got to 50 games.

So were the Hawks fans

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[Kernel Kurtz]

Clearly hysterical. Were we tanking in round 1 and 2 by not playing a specialist tagger?

Rocky said tonight on 360 they've identified three Richmond players to put extra work into... presumably two of those are Cotchin and Martin.

He said the plan is sometimes to directly restrict them, and sometimes to manipulate matchups to force them to be accountable the other way. The suggestion was that we prefer the latter because we can't really afford to weaken our offensive output any further. The match review apparently indicated that our defensive running was okay but the offensive running was well below what they are looking for. A pure defensive shutdown role might come at too much of a cost.



Kidding myself then. Pick a team from our available players that would look likely to win at the moment. And if you suggest Goose Maguire and Andrew Raines are the difference between a smashing and a win, then I don't think it is me kidding myself.

In my book, tanking is manipulating events to turn a likely win into a likely loss. Tanking isn't leaving out a couple of senior players (who wouldnt get a game in any other team) unlikely to be in your future plans whose only contribution would be turning an 80 point loss into a 60 point loss.

We don't have anything close to the available cattle to present up for a "likely win". So yeah, I'll probably take an 80 point loss with some blooding of future players than a 60 point loss where we forgo opportunities for player development for the sake of scoreboard damage minimisation.

I agree leaving Raines out , this is consistent to the structures and style of play Leppa wants to implement , so happy with that.
Its up to each player to be defensive when required, I LIKE it.
But to me the debate is not whether we lose by 60 or 80 or 40 but is in terms of how we progress with the implementation of the desired game plan and the development of our youth .

So the question is does the team benefit better in these terms of developement and progress with say the likes of a few more proven older players ie. Maquire, Polks giving some experience and stability or to select youth and get more games into them asap.

To me you have to play the PLAYERS that can implement the game style as best you can possibly achieve at this point of time.
regardless of age or experience, then we will progress as a functioning team. We will struggle for longer imo if we are getting belted every week, or struggle to play close to the plan.

I would of thought Goose down the back( for example) would offer the team some stability in the defensive half, I could be wrong, and as someone else mentioned I think Goose still knows the fundamentals on how to play that fullback role.
I hope we are not just giving these spots to youth just because they are the future, but because Leppa thinks they can implement the style of play that he wants, and are best available.

I guess to sum it up I think that with playing the best team available , and thats even if some older players are in or not , the KIDS are going to benefit more . Maybe they wouldn't be included all at once but eventually they would get a good run.

Anyways The boys are going to have a red hot crack , Lets hope they run hard , I want to see some gut running out there tonight. GO LIONS.

 

[wabaa]

Have we not had an eye for the future for at least the past five years in terms of trying to get games into the kids?

It's this mythical pot of gold that may never eventuate and you're back exactly where you started. There should only ever be half an eye on the future.

It seems to me we're not going into the game with our best chance of winning tonight, so by definition are tanking.

 

[Balony_pony16]

Have we not had an eye for the future for at least the past five years in terms of trying to get games into the kids?

Burning games on spuds like Sheldon, collier, hawksley etc... meh. Im backing the current wave of rookies to have much brighter futures

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[Balony_pony16]

I never thought id see the day people would be so devastated to see Raines and Polks out of the team

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[Dylan12]

Burning games on spuds like Sheldon, collier, hawksley etc... meh. Im backing the current wave of rookies to have much brighter futures

And who's to say any of these kids aren't going to be spoken about in years to come as Sheldon, Collier, Hawksley are.

Could very much be that we are talking about Paparone, Taylor, Gardiner and Robertson in the same light in 2017 when people are going on about playing da kidz that we drafted in the 2017 draft.

 

[Old Den]

I don't think Leppa's angry/frustrated reaction to Leuey's injury that we saw on TV suggests that he is tanking.

I was in favour of Maguire replacing Merrett during his absence and I have been a fan of Raines tagging and have had a higher regard for Polks in the past than many on this board but I am not devastated by their absence from the senior team...as I posted earlier they have the option to demand selection...if they want a game the ball is in their court.

 

[Balony_pony16]

And who's to say any of these kids aren't going to be spoken about in years to come as Sheldon, Collier, Hawksley are.

Could very much be that we are talking about Paparone, Taylor, Gardiner and Robertson in the same light in 2017 when people are going on about playing da kidz that we drafted in the 2017 draft.

True... but wouldnt you say Polks and raines have already proven their worth which aint very good. Would rather move on and work on unearthing talent which can take us ahead

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[Grizzly86]

Tonight, we draw a line in the sand. For all the kids we have in the team, we have guys with enough experience to stand up and take ownership of this team, it's time for them to shine, rather than leave Rocky to do the talking and the performing. Blokes like Lester need to add some mongrel to their tepid aura, I'm not saying we need silly undisciplined acts, but when the opportunity arises, hit hard. It takes some legit courage to gut run and get to positions on the field you have no right to be, I want to see that.

We can sit around and mope about such club greats as Polkinghorne and Raines not getting a game, or we can urge the boys on tonight and hope they deliver a page-turning performance that we look back on in 20 weeks and say "That's where the culture took it's first step in the right direction".

I for one am looking forward to the game and seeing the intestinal fortitude of our boys on show for the whole nation to see.

 

[Kevvo]

It's this mythical pot of gold that may never eventuate and you're back exactly where you started. There should only ever be half an eye on the future.

It seems to me we're not going into the game with our best chance of winning tonight, so by definition are tanking.

This is bankrupting the meaning of tanking. There has to be a difference between deliberately seeking to lose and (arguably) incrementally increasing your chance of a loss to maximise your longer term prospects of actual, sustained success. You may disagree that it will work, and that is fair enough. But to suggest it's tanking is reductive and, I think, wrong.

 

[Hollow Knight]

It seems to me we're not going into the game with our best chance of winning tonight, so by definition are tanking.

Then pretty much every team in the competition is too.

 

[Dylan12]

True... but wouldnt you say Polks and raines have already proven their worth which aint very good. Would rather move on and work on unearthing talent which can take us ahead

How have Maguire, Raines and Polkinghorne proven their worth under the new "coach". We have seen multiple guys actually regress under the new "coach" yet they're continually rewarded with games. As someone mentioned somewhere on this board yesterday, if we are really that serious about unearthing this supposed talent and getting games into them, then basically we shouldn't bother playing anyone over the age of 26. Certainly an extreme point I know, but not without validity either considering we won't be going anywhere in years.

 

[carnthemlions]

Does anyone really think Polkinghorne would still be on the list if one less player had 'gone home'?

Okay, he has Maguire, Polkinghorne and Raines or rookies. Is that a heap in your mind?

If he doesn't put someone on Cotch and Martin then I'll agree with the latter. I would have brought Raines in personally.

Besides, you don't really put someone on Martin unless he's playing forward. He does a good job of limiting his own influence half the time anyway.

 

[jackess]

It's this mythical pot of gold that may never eventuate and you're back exactly where you started. There should only ever be half an eye on the future.

It seems to me we're not going into the game with our best chance of winning tonight, so by definition are tanking.

Leppa has been open in saying winning isn't his first priority. IMO that isn't tanking but it's a fine line between playing for the future and tanking.

 

[Hollow Knight]

Just flew in!
Excited for tonight's game at the Gabba.
Never been before.

Adelaide Oval one week, the Gabba this week. The latter is not quite as scenic

Bring money for sauce.

 

[Haso]

Bring money for sauce.

Sauce doesn't deserve another pay check until he stops bashing blokes.