Society/Culture Reproductive Rights: Roe vs Wade, abortion, etc

[BruceFromBalnarring]

It was BAD FAITH posting. Own it!

No it wasn’t. You have a conceited presumption of the absolute righteousness of your position. It’s far more complicated than you think and there are many who are politically on the left who are opposed to abortion in one form or another.

Stop pretending your view is universal. It isn’t.

Reports are Sinema wouldn’t support the necessary vote and someone else raised Manchin. That’s 2.

 

[darth_timon]

I came across this copy and paste post on a friend's FB page.

I'm not pro-murdering babies.
I'm pro-Becky who found out at her 20 week anatomy scan that the infant she had been so excited to bring into this world had developed without life sustaining organs.
I'm pro-Susan who was sexually assaulted on her way home from work, only to come to the horrific realization that her assailant planted his seed in her when she got a positive pregnancy test result a month later.
I'm pro-Theresa who hemorrhaged due to a placental abruption, causing her parents, spouse, and children to have to make the impossible decision on whether to save her or her unborn child.
I'm pro-little Cathy who had her innocence ripped away from her by someone she should have been able to trust and her 11 year old body isn't mature enough to bear the consequence of that betrayal.
I'm pro-Melissa who's working two jobs just to make ends meet and has to choose between bringing another child into poverty or feeding the children she already has because her spouse walked out on her.
I'm pro-Brittany who realizes that she is in no way financially, emotionally, or physically able to raise a child.
I'm pro-Emily who went through IVF, ending up with SIX viable implanted eggs requiring selective reduction in order to ensure the safety of her and a SAFE amount of fetuses.
I'm pro-Christina who doesn't want to be a mother, but birth control methods sometimes fail.
I'm pro-Jessica who is FINALLY getting the strength to get away from her physically abusive spouse only to find out that she is carrying the monster's child.
I'm pro-Vanessa who went into her confirmation appointment after YEARS of trying to conceive only to hear silence where there should be a heartbeat.
I'm pro-Lindsay who lost her virginity in her sophomore year with a broken condom and now has to choose whether to be a teenage mom or just a teenager.
I'm pro-Courtney who just found out she's already 13 weeks along, but the egg never made it out of her fallopian tube so either she terminates the pregnancy or risks dying from internal bleeding.
You can argue and say that I'm pro-choice all you want, but the truth is:
I'm pro-life.
Their lives.
Women's lives.
You don't get to pick and choose which scenarios should be accepted.
Women's rights are meant to protect ALL women, regardless of their situation!

This is a brilliant post, and with your permission, I'd like to share it via a website I run.

 

[sherb]

This is a brilliant post, and with your permission, I'd like to share it via a website I run.

Go for it, it's a copy and paste job from FB so I have no idea where it originated.

 

[Gralin]

You really are thick.
I was the one that posted about Manchin and you need to do more research on Sinema.

It doesn't matter Bruce has set his false narrative argument and will run it into the ground

 

[Chief]

Mmm….there seems to be some evidence emerging that that may not be the case.

Dude. There isn't.

 

[Geelong_Sicko]

I'm an atheist so am no fan of institutionalised religion but that's democracy isn't it, weren't they voted in?

To be honest, I don't think democracy is, nor should ever be, a way of nullifying basic human rights. As a pro-choice human regarding abortion I believe the procedure should be included as a basic human right that no amount of democracy can ever take away.

 

[Geelong_Sicko]

I was talking about vaccines rather than masks but let’s not head down that rabbit hole.

It's collective good versus individual want, isn't it? Vaccines protect the community at large and the more that are vaccinated the less of a strain there will be on our health services. With covid it's not a total innoculation its true, but the effects of covid on a vaccinated person, barring breakthrough infection, are lessened to a good degree. This is from January 2022;

COVID-19 Incidence and Death Rates Among Unvaccinated ...

This report describes COVID-19 incidence rate ratios for unvaccinated versus fully vaccinated persons with and without booster vaccine doses during the emergence of the Omicron variant.

www.cdc.gov

Regarding abortion - is the collective good harmed through the practice of abortion? I'm talking purely physical harm here. I realise that there is a spiritual dimension shared in by religious people that informs part of the anti-abortion debate but that is neither here nor there in a modern secular society.

You might say that the unborn are harmed. But how? They are potential lives-to-be but that is all. In footy terms they have not torn through the banner and they are not out on the field. Are they considered to be playing the game yet?

 

[Crankyhawk]

I find it amusing that the states that are considering anti abortion laws many are also anti mask/vaccination and have low Covid vaccination rates.

You know the ones that say, 'my body my rights'.

Need children to replace old dead people I guess

 

[Crankyhawk]

I came across this copy and paste post on a friend's FB page.

I'm not pro-murdering babies.
I'm pro-Becky who found out at her 20 week anatomy scan that the infant she had been so excited to bring into this world had developed without life sustaining organs.
I'm pro-Susan who was sexually assaulted on her way home from work, only to come to the horrific realization that her assailant planted his seed in her when she got a positive pregnancy test result a month later.
I'm pro-Theresa who hemorrhaged due to a placental abruption, causing her parents, spouse, and children to have to make the impossible decision on whether to save her or her unborn child.
I'm pro-little Cathy who had her innocence ripped away from her by someone she should have been able to trust and her 11 year old body isn't mature enough to bear the consequence of that betrayal.
I'm pro-Melissa who's working two jobs just to make ends meet and has to choose between bringing another child into poverty or feeding the children she already has because her spouse walked out on her.
I'm pro-Brittany who realizes that she is in no way financially, emotionally, or physically able to raise a child.
I'm pro-Emily who went through IVF, ending up with SIX viable implanted eggs requiring selective reduction in order to ensure the safety of her and a SAFE amount of fetuses.
I'm pro-Christina who doesn't want to be a mother, but birth control methods sometimes fail.
I'm pro-Jessica who is FINALLY getting the strength to get away from her physically abusive spouse only to find out that she is carrying the monster's child.
I'm pro-Vanessa who went into her confirmation appointment after YEARS of trying to conceive only to hear silence where there should be a heartbeat.
I'm pro-Lindsay who lost her virginity in her sophomore year with a broken condom and now has to choose whether to be a teenage mom or just a teenager.
I'm pro-Courtney who just found out she's already 13 weeks along, but the egg never made it out of her fallopian tube so either she terminates the pregnancy or risks dying from internal bleeding.
You can argue and say that I'm pro-choice all you want, but the truth is:
I'm pro-life.
Their lives.
Women's lives.
You don't get to pick and choose which scenarios should be accepted.
Women's rights are meant to protect ALL women, regardless of their situation!

Are they seriously going to stop treatment of ectopic pregnancy? That is insanely ****ed if true

 

[Crankyhawk]

Not quite - the history of US Supreme court nominations is highly political, and it's been a long standing pet project of the Republican party to stack the supreme court with conservative judges so that Roe vs Wade could be overturned.

I posted earlier in this thread a number of polls and surveys showing Americans overwhelmingly favour legal access to abortion.

The US Supreme Court is a corrupt sack of shit.

 

[Crankyhawk]

What about state by state polls? Because abortion would still be legal in most if not all the blue states

Why should laws differ state by state?

 

[Crankyhawk]

Anyone with a conscience could have leaked it.

I think leaking this also helps diffuse the anger a little as well (as in now people know it is coming as opposed to a more sudden decision)

 

[Crankyhawk]

The ones in multiple states that have been passed recently that make it illegal for anyone under 18 to be trans

Is it to identify as trans
Or is it to make it illegal to have medical procedures to transition?

 

[Crankyhawk]

I'm at a bit of a loss to reconcile a "pro-life" stance with murder, attempted murder, bombings, etc.

Easy done
They believe that those who would do abortion are evil and therefore not human so it is a good thing to kill/ remove them.

Sick ****ers

 

[The Passenger]

Why should laws differ state by state?

To be fair it is just brining us closer to a more ideal scenario for everyone.

 

[BruceFromBalnarring]

It doesn't matter Bruce has set his false narrative argument and will run it into the ground

 

[BruceFromBalnarring]

Why should laws differ state by state?

Because the constitution confers on states the power to make laws. That is the entire point.

 

[BruceFromBalnarring]

Dude. There isn't.

Dude. There is. You might not like the quality of the evidence. You might not respect the producers of the papers. You might not agree with the analysis of the data.

But it remains evidence.

 

[Crankyhawk]

Because the constitution confers on states the power to make laws. That is the entire point.

Does it exclude the federal government from making law as well? And why should this be a viable concept in the modern age (to have citizens of the same country governed by different laws) it shits me in Australia that this happens too.

 

[BruceFromBalnarring]

Does it exclude the federal government from making law as well? And why should this be a viable concept in the modern age (to have citizens of the same country governed by different laws) it shits me in Australia that this happens too.

On that subject yes.

The constitution can be changed. But the guts of the issue with RvW was it was bad law. It invented a constitutional right that didn’t exist.

It’s a whole other discussion, and a complicated and detailed one, but I’m of the view that laws should be made as close to those that are affected (and the legislature must answer too) as possible.

I do acknowledge that it’s imperfect however.

 

[Crankyhawk]

On that subject yes.

The constitution can be changed. But the guts of the issue with RvW was it was bad law. It invented a constitutional right that didn’t exist.

It’s a whole other discussion, and a complicated and detailed one, but I’m of the view that laws should be made as close to those that are affected (and the legislature must answer too) as possible.

I do acknowledge that it’s imperfect however.

And while it is the “drier” (less passion inducing) component of the roe v wade debate I’d be predicting this is the main argument used to justify killing off roe v wade.

 

[M Malice]

To be honest, I don't think democracy is, nor should ever be, a way of nullifying basic human rights. As a pro-choice human regarding abortion I believe the procedure should be included as a basic human right that no amount of democracy can ever take away.

Who decides what "basic human rights" are? + Do they change over time as the human race becomes more enlightened(hopefully) as generations come and go?

As I said in an earlier post there is a lot of grey on this issue IMO.... all the way from the morning after pill through to an abortion procedure in the last week or so of a pregnancy. Do you support unfettered, non questioning, abortion rights during all stages of pregnancy?

 

[BruceFromBalnarring]

And while it is the “drier” (less passion inducing) component of the roe v wade debate I’d be predicting this is the main argument used to justify killing off roe v wade.

Well yes, but really it should be put in reverse. RvW should never have happened in the first place.

 

[ferball]

Biden has voted against Roe v Wade before
When Joe Biden Voted to Let States Overturn Roe v. Wade (Published 2019)

He's using this to say they need more pro choice Dems to make women safe but Dems have had a majority under Biden, Obama, Clinton, and Carter and never codified it into law

Doubt they have any real interest in doing it now, they prefer to use it as an election carrot

Between Carter and Clinton the Democrats were happy to let Tipper Gore attack free speech and artistic expression if it had the potential to get these fundy religious types onside.

Its like the bullshit they pull to get black people onside.

 

[Gralin]

I realise that there is a spiritual dimension shared in by religious people that informs part of the anti-abortion debate but that is neither here nor there in a modern secular society.

Funnily enough there is nothing in the bible about abortion being bad
Both Jewish ane Islamic faith believe a pregnant woman's life is more important than the baby she is carrying

It's a particular group that see religion in a particular way that are pushing for this. Its not all Christians or all religions

Is it to identify as trans
Or is it to make it illegal to have medical procedures to transition?

All of it.
No gender affirming care
So can't go to school dressed how they want, can't change their names, no puberty blockers or HRT
All of that immediately stopped

In Mississippi they were tinkering with upping the age on the bill from 18 to 25 but they weren't sure they'd get the votes so they stuck to 18

In Texas its now child abuse to support your child if they say they are trans and want to change their name and pronouns