Society/Culture Reproductive Rights: Roe vs Wade, abortion, etc

[The Cryptkeeper]

You are a smart man join the dots here, leak happens and mere moments later democats are campaign on it and fund raising.

Democrats see in the Supreme Court's leaked decision on Roe v. Wade a shot at winning culture wars

"This is a clarifying moment for Democratic and independent voters. And it's not going to be good for GOP candidates," a Democratic strategist said.

ca.news.yahoo.com

Democrats raise more than $7 million in hours after leak of draft Supreme Court abortion opinion

Democrats have raised over $5 million since the Supreme Court's draft opinion, which could lead to Roe v. Wade being overturned, was leaked.

www.cnbc.com

 

[Gough]

How can it be possible that the same crowd that cried rivers of tears over mask and vaccine mandates based on freedom to choose suddenly turn around and celebrate this?

 

[The Cryptkeeper]

Hey jim_shoes Maggie never said they knew the voting preferences of the Dems, Bruce said the democrats didn't have the numbers in their own party but couldn't name a single democrat that would be against it.
Bruce made the claim, refused to back it up and now it trying to get maggie to prove him wrong

Thats bad faith

It's par for the course for Bruce.

Many of us saw his work in the George Pell thread and know how he operates.

 

[ferball]

Before you start with your tiresome 20 questions gotcha my position is this.

I hate abortion.

I think that an unborn child is human life.

I don’t agree (as much as it hurts me to think about it) that you should make laws requiring women to carry a child through pregnancy. It’s her body, not the legislature’s.

I also don’t think (this is additional to what I wrote earlier) that people should misdescribe what abortion is to make it seem nicer.

LOL. That's essentially what everyone else in this thread is saying yet there is a big shitfight going on about it.

FWIW I don't think I've agreed much with what you've said over the years but I appreciate you're willing to struggle with a difficult idea and form a difficult conclusion about it based on your own assessment of what is at stake.

Cheers.

 

[BruceFromBalnarring]

How can it be possible that the same crowd that cried rivers of tears over mask and vaccine mandates based on freedom to choose suddenly turn around and celebrate this?

How can it be possible that the same people who sneered at the concept of bodily autonomy can be outraged at a decision to return decision making powers to the legislatures elected to make this decisions under the Constitution, based on a right to bodily autonomy?

 

[Gough]

How can it be possible that the same people who sneered at the concept of bodily autonomy can be outraged at a decision to return decision making powers to the legislatures elected to make this decisions under the Constitution, based on a right to bodily autonomy?

You're not very good at this are you?

 

[kranky al]

Sure. If they want to.

Bad luck that there's a disproportionate amount of old white religious men making the laws in certain states who are hellbent on making it illegal.

 

[Mofra]

The US Supreme Court is a corrupt sack of shit.

Not a single person who voted to overturn Roe vs Wade was elected by a POTUS who won the popular vote.

Noting this in conjunction with every poll and survey you can find in the US on support for a woman's right to choose, anyone trying to argue 'democracy' is dead wrong.

 

[sherb]

This explains a lot, particularly why (implied) the "advocacy" dries up once the baby is born.

 

[Chief]

the same people who sneered at the concept of bodily autonomy

Again:
Nobody held anybody down and forced vaccination on them. There's a public health emergency that meant that anyone unvaccinated couldn't do certain things due to the increased risk that refusal placed on others.

It was not an unprecedented measure.

 

[Big_Birdy]

Not a single person who voted to overturn Roe vs Wade was elected by a POTUS who won the popular vote.

Noting this in conjunction with every poll and survey you can find in the US on support for a woman's right to choose, anyone trying to argue 'democracy' is dead wrong.

Ignoring the fact that this is a draft judgement and hasn't actually been voted on at all yet, or that Presidents don't elect judges they only nominate them, that is just not correct. Clarence Thomas was nominated in 1991 by George H.W Bush who won the popular vote in 1988 by about 7 million. Alito was nominated in 2005 after the 2004 election which George W Bush won by 3 million votes.

 

[Mofra]

Ignoring the fact that this is a draft judgement and hasn't actually been voted on at all yet, or that Presidents don't elect judges they only nominate them, that is just not correct. Clarence Thomas was nominated in 1991 by George H.W Bush who won the popular vote in 1988 by about 7 million. Alito was nominated in 2005 after the 2004 election which George W Bush won by 3 million votes.

Fair play, happy to stand corrected

 

[Gough]

I can never think of Clarence Thomas without being reminded of this.

 

[BruceFromBalnarring]

Again:
Nobody held anybody down and forced vaccination on them. There's a public health emergency that meant that anyone unvaccinated couldn't do certain things due to the increased risk that refusal placed on others.

It was not an unprecedented measure.

I’m arguing with one hand tied behind my back here do, again, it’s off topic, so let’s drop it.

 

[Geelong_Sicko]

Before you start with your tiresome 20 questions gotcha my position is this.

I hate abortion.

I think that an unborn child is human life.

I don’t agree (as much as it hurts me to think about it) that you should make laws requiring women to carry a child through pregnancy. It’s her body, not the legislature’s.

I also don’t think (this is additional to what I wrote earlier) that people should misdescribe what abortion is to make it seem nicer.

I can respect this.

 

[The Cryptkeeper]

I’m arguing with one hand tied behind my back here do, again, it’s off topic, so let’s drop it.

So you're happy to make a flippant comment, stand your ground on it and argue it until you're exposed as having no clothes...and then drop it as being "off topic."

Never change Bruce.

 

[BruceFromBalnarring]

So you're happy to make a flippant comment, stand your ground on it and argue it until you're exposed as having no clothes...and then drop it as being "off topic."

Never change Bruce.

I didn’t make the flippant comment. Chief did. And I know well the consequences of countering that flippant comment. So does Chief, which is probably why he keeps making it.

 

[The Cryptkeeper]

I didn’t make the flippant comment. Chief did. And I know well the consequences of countering that flippant comment. So does Chief, which is probably why he keeps making it.

This, to refresh your memory was your flippant comment:

"How can it be possible that the same people who sneered at the concept of bodily autonomy can be outraged at a decision to return decision making powers to the legislatures elected to make this decisions under the Constitution, based on a right to bodily autonomy?"

Chief's comment was valid to anybody with common sense. You just mugged yourself off as the faux-intellectual that you really are.

 

[faible]

So why are you doing that? The original desicion wasn't democracy and you are fine with that.

It's been in place for 50 years and in every survey is supported by the majority of the American public.

So uh, yeah. Democracy actually supports it remaining in place, or being replaced by actual laws that legalise abortion.

This is the very rare case of a democratic society actively walking back progress.

 

[Gough]

Not a single person who voted to overturn Roe vs Wade was elected by a POTUS who won the popular vote.

Noting this in conjunction with every poll and survey you can find in the US on support for a woman's right to choose, anyone trying to argue 'democracy' is dead wrong.

The irony of the three conservative judges who were pivotal in this ruling being appointed by the man once described as the patron saint of New York abortion clinics shouldn't be lost either.

 

[Balls In]

Before you start with your tiresome 20 questions gotcha my position is this.

I hate abortion.

I think that an unborn child is human life.

I don’t agree (as much as it hurts me to think about it) that you should make laws requiring women to carry a child through pregnancy. It’s her body, not the legislature’s.

I also don’t think (this is additional to what I wrote earlier) that people should misdescribe what abortion is to make it seem nicer.

This is roughly where most people stand.

At either end of the scale about 15% support abortion right up to birth and at the other end around 15% oppose abortion under any circumstance. Everyone else sits somewhere in the middle. Personally I reckon it should be legal up to the first trimester, then only for medical grounds thereafter.

As for the other point of course an unborn child is human life. Its obviously disingenuous to argue otherwise. What else could it be? You can be pro abortion, that is fine because its a complicated situation, however you don't get to change that fact. The debate is literally around the morality of taking the life of an unborn human being.

 

[Maggie5]

Need children to replace old dead people I guess

Need more birth factories? It isn't just old people that die.

 

[sherb]

Before you start with your tiresome 20 questions gotcha my position is this.

I hate abortion.

I think that an unborn child is human life.

I don’t agree (as much as it hurts me to think about it) that you should make laws requiring women to carry a child through pregnancy. It’s her body, not the legislature’s.

I also don’t think (this is additional to what I wrote earlier) that people should misdescribe what abortion is to make it seem nicer.

Great, but this comes after you reduced another poster's position to this -

If you must keep condescendingly addressing me by name, Gralin, please use a comma. The condescension doesn’t offend me, but your persistent grammatical errors just grates my cheese.

You’re pro laws that allow the killing of unborn children. Own it. Don’t dress it up in remote language.

None of your subsequent nuance or objectivity regarding your stance on the subject there. Just blunt, in your face, simplistic assessment of someone else's position on the subject.

And you wonder why I asked the question I did.

 

[Maggie5]

The irony of the three conservative judges who were pivotal in this ruling being appointed by the man once described as the patron saint of New York abortion clinics shouldn't be lost either.

Yep and here is Pence talking about it.

 

[sherb]

Yep and here is Pence talking about it.

Fake Christian.