Game Day Richmond Tigers v GWS Giants - Grand Final - Sat 28 Sep, 2:30PM AEST, MCG

[gutsroy]

Was a shame Adams and Treloar weren’t out there today for the Giants

Have been consistently against Melbourne sides using the new franchises as feeder clubs, was against Beams forcing his return to Collingwood etc.
Richmond paid no price in trade for Lynch, as opposed to the other examples you cite, so it's a false equivalence (GCS took the path of least resistance compensation-wise, to be fair).
Lynch walked out on his club at its lowest ebb as its co-captain to go to the premier of the year before.
Whether it fits your world view or not, Richmond / Hawthorn / Collingwood / continually raiding GCS' talent will never allow the club to get a critical mass together, and Lynch is not the people's underdog.

 

[gutsroy]

Lmaoooooo

Jesus, not you, too.

 

[enobrien]

Jesus, not you, too.

Sorry guts but what about the new franchises getting half the first round picks during that time we (the Tigers) were very average and thus missed out on some top end talent

IIRC we finished 2nd last in 2010 and 13th or so in 2011.

Wouldn't have minded a piece of the top10 picks in those 2 drafts.

 

[Bazzar]

Marlion Pickett this! And Marlion Pickett that! fu** me drunk!

You dont think its an amazing achievement?

 

[gutsroy]

Sorry guts but what about the new franchises getting half the first round picks during that time we (the Tigers) were very average and thus missed out on some top end talent

IIRC we finished 2nd last in 2010 and 13th or so in 2011.

Wouldn't have minded a piece of the top10 picks in those 2 drafts.

I get that and some clubs will have had that problem of being disadvantaged by being down lower at a time of compromised drafts.

For me the bottom line is that the 18-team comp gives more players a chance of getting an AFL list spot, the 18-team comp boosts media revenues etc., the new franchises give the game a chance to get a better foothold in the northern states. That only comes with some impositions for established teams.

Players picking and choosing the pros they’re happy to benefit from in the national comp while only copping the cons like restraint of trade when it suits them is fine for the individual with bargaining power, but damages the collective.

(As might the new strategies of clubs spending a big portion of the cap on a few topliners and filling out the list with blokes on minimum wage, but that’s still to play out, I guess.)

Am not bashing the Tigers, they were a cut above and belted all and sundry, had great stories like Grigg / Pickett, Stack, big Soldo, Graham playing on with the shoulder etc. Just won’t be picking up the pom-poms for Lynch anytime soon.

 

[Bazzar]

Don't feel a lot of joy for Lynch , Prestia and Caddy.
Rewarded for a lack of loyalty, you'd rather it went the other way, to be honest.

Trelore, Howe, Dunn, Beames, Mayne, Varcoe, Wells.
Probably missed a few.

 

[gutsroy]

Trelore, Howe, Dunn, Beames, Mayne, Varcoe, Wells.
Probably missed a few.

??
Treloar: GWS traded hard, extracted good value, so not equivalent to Lynch (but still an example of Vic clubs going after new franchises’ kids)
Dunn: Had played 4 games the season prior to the trade, was deemed surplus to requirements and the Demons looked to move him on. Don’t know he fits in
Beams (from Bris, I assume): Awful look, see previous posts, but the Lions won that trade.
Varcoe: Only came to us as part of a five-way trade in which we lost Beams at his peak, hard to argue we fleeced anyone there, apart from grabbing Crisp, I guess.
Greenwood: Cost us pick 25 and he first went looking after North only offered him one year on fairly low money after he had finished high up in the B&F.
Howe: Multiclub trade (think he pushed his price higher than Melbourne were looking to pay, but not 100%)
Wells: North got second round compo after we insanely outbid them by a year and 700k. No flies on North. He wasn’t in his prime (to put it mildly).
Mayne: Freo received pick 23 compensation, what did Lynch cost you again?

Genuinely not sure what point you were looking to prove, don’t see the equivalence.

 

[Bazzar]

??
Treloar: GWS traded hard, extracted good value, so not equivalent to Lynch (but still an example of Vic clubs going after new franchises’ kids)
Dunn: Had played 4 games the season prior to the trade, was deemed surplus to requirements and the Demons looked to move him on. Don’t know he fits in
Beams (from Bris, I assume): Awful look, see previous posts, but the Lions won that trade.
Varcoe: Only came to us as part of a five-way trade in which we lost Beams at his peak, hard to argue we fleeced anyone there, apart from grabbing Crisp, I guess.
Greenwood: Cost us pick 25 and he first went looking after North only offered him one year on fairly low money after he had finished high up in the B&F.
Howe: Multiclub trade (think he pushed his price higher than Melbourne were looking to pay, but not 100%)
Wells: North got second round compo after we insanely outbid them by a year and 700k. No flies on North. He wasn’t in his prime (to put it mildly).
Mayne: Freo received pick 23 compensation, what did Lynch cost you again?

Genuinely not sure what point you were looking to prove, don’t see the equivalence.

So what you're saying is the Pies stuffed the picks and recruited duds.

 

[gutsroy]

So what you're saying is the Pies stuffed the picks and recruited duds.

Planning on mounting an argument any time soon?

 

[Niggles]

Planning on mounting an argument any time soon?

Wouldn't hear a peep from your type if Lynch chose the club he supported as a kid and not their bigger cousin. He didn't chose the last years premier either as that was eagles. Collingwood even played the granny. Yet he chose the tiges and it burns you so much you come up with this raiding of clubs when Lynch and Prestia chose us, Prestia for pick 6 mind you, and Caddy was from Geelong. Those 3 suns we have are the picks we missed out on so is an even up. Your sour grapes are very sweet in my palette.

 

[TigerTime88]

Sheedy embarrassed himself with those comments, what a salty clown

What did he say?

 

[Woody Woodman]

Trelore, Howe, Dunn, Beames, Mayne, Varcoe, Wells.
Probably missed a few.

And Buckley, who didn’t want to be Bear.

 

[Sterge]

??
Treloar: GWS traded hard, extracted good value, so not equivalent to Lynch (but still an example of Vic clubs going after new franchises’ kids)
Dunn: Had played 4 games the season prior to the trade, was deemed surplus to requirements and the Demons looked to move him on. Don’t know he fits in
Beams (from Bris, I assume): Awful look, see previous posts, but the Lions won that trade.
Varcoe: Only came to us as part of a five-way trade in which we lost Beams at his peak, hard to argue we fleeced anyone there, apart from grabbing Crisp, I guess.
Greenwood: Cost us pick 25 and he first went looking after North only offered him one year on fairly low money after he had finished high up in the B&F.
Howe: Multiclub trade (think he pushed his price higher than Melbourne were looking to pay, but not 100%)
Wells: North got second round compo after we insanely outbid them by a year and 700k. No flies on North. He wasn’t in his prime (to put it mildly).
Mayne: Freo received pick 23 compensation, what did Lynch cost you again?

Genuinely not sure what point you were looking to prove, don’t see the equivalence.

Prestia: gc traded hard extracted good value
Caddy: wasn't getting game time at Geelong came to Richmond for more opportunities (He didn't even come to us from gc which makes your argument even worse)
Timmy lunch: gc got first round compo after we insanely outbid them. Did his time wanted to play in big games in front of more than 10,000 people.


See how dumb your argument sounds now

 

[AFLisnotNRL]

Sorry guts but what about the new franchises getting half the first round picks during that time we (the Tigers) were very average and thus missed out on some top end talent

IIRC we finished 2nd last in 2010 and 13th or so in 2011.

Wouldn't have minded a piece of the top10 picks in those 2 drafts.

Good timing, taking opportunities and excellent management. It all balances out in the end I guess..
Politics and connections help too. Richmond's time as in the 60s and 70s.
What I find is the best Richmond character of them all Sheeds at least in the public sphere has had little zero involvement and been GWS.
Who knows he probably has an invisible hand in some kind of assistance...

 

[AFLisnotNRL]

Prestia: gc traded hard extracted good value
Caddy: wasn't getting game time at Geelong came to Richmond for more opportunities (He didn't even come to us from gc which makes your argument even worse)
Timmy lunch: gc got first round compo after we insanely outbid them. Did his time wanted to play in big games in front of more than 10,000 people.


See how dumb your argument sounds now

Lynch was a bargain champ.. the argument was Richmond received him without a trade. I don't particularly like Collingwood but his cold hard facts stand up.
Prestia did cost a trade so you win that argument. Not sure what Caddy cost in trade terms.
Richmond have taken advantage of being a Melbourne based power club in the premiership window that can guarantee a minimum of 7x 60k games, 2 x big finals and a good chance of a flag which is what every kid dreams of. Not hard to sell. Better chance of media and advertising opportunities.
Collingwood to be honest with their position similar to Hawthorn and Richmond have traded poorly to gain the franchise stars they got.
Essendon, Carlton and Melbourne will be just as ruthless when their time comes to take advantage if still available.
My guess is before their time arrives the AFL will intervene to make it harder for the power clubs to offer carrots to lure flag magnets such as Lynch to be captured without a fair trade given...
Be fu..kn graceful and just accept your team was good but had a golden opportunity to exploit it and took it!

 

[austyn08]

Lynch was a bargain champ.. the argument was Richmond received him without a trade. I don't particularly like Collingwood but his cold hard facts stand up.
Prestia did cost a trade so you win that argument. Not sure what Caddy cost in trade terms.
Richmond have taken advantage of being a Melbourne based power club in the premiership window that can guarantee a minimum of 7x 60k games, 2 x big finals and a good chance of a flag which is what every kid dreams of. Not hard to sell. Better chance of media and advertising opportunities.
Collingwood to be honest with their position similar to Hawthorn and Richmond have traded poorly to gain the franchise stars they got.
Essendon, Carlton and Melbourne will be just as ruthless when their time comes to take advantage if still available.
My guess is before their time arrives the AFL will intervene to make it harder for the power clubs to offer carrots to lure flag magnets such as Lynch to be captured without a fair trade given...
Be fu..kn graceful and just accept your team was good but had a golden opportunity to exploit it and took it!

After 35 years of crap we have found 3 years of success and you don’t like what it reaps. Take it when you can like every other club would. Doesn’t last forever.

 

[Numero Uno]

Richmond should've threepeated. Easily the best team over the past 3 years, unfortunate the West Coast fluke happened last year

you have the perfect IQ for a job in the Vic media

 

[rado]

Lynch was a bargain champ.. the argument was Richmond received him without a trade. I don't particularly like Collingwood but his cold hard facts stand up.
Prestia did cost a trade so you win that argument. Not sure what Caddy cost in trade terms.
Richmond have taken advantage of being a Melbourne based power club in the premiership window that can guarantee a minimum of 7x 60k games, 2 x big finals and a good chance of a flag which is what every kid dreams of. Not hard to sell. Better chance of media and advertising opportunities.
Collingwood to be honest with their position similar to Hawthorn and Richmond have traded poorly to gain the franchise stars they got.
Essendon, Carlton and Melbourne will be just as ruthless when their time comes to take advantage if still available.
My guess is before their time arrives the AFL will intervene to make it harder for the power clubs to offer carrots to lure flag magnets such as Lynch to be captured without a fair trade given...
Be fu..kn graceful and just accept your team was good but had a golden opportunity to exploit it and took it!

You make it sound as if the tigers success has been built upon exploiting the system above all others and not losing players ourselves.

At the end of 2016, we lost Mr Vickery (first round selection) to Hawthorn as a free agent, including Mr Deledio as a trade. At the time, both players were considered big losses to our side.
At the end of 2018 another first round free agent goes west Mr Conca, another loss to our side.

In that time we trade for Prestia, Nank and Caddy and free agent Tom. Mind you, Prestia had injury history and no guarantee of sustained elite footy and tommy had PCL issues with no preseason in 2019.

No, your underselling an amazing job by an amazing organisation.

 

[Sterge]

Lynch was a bargain champ.. the argument was Richmond received him without a trade. I don't particularly like Collingwood but his cold hard facts stand up.
Prestia did cost a trade so you win that argument. Not sure what Caddy cost in trade terms.
Richmond have taken advantage of being a Melbourne based power club in the premiership window that can guarantee a minimum of 7x 60k games, 2 x big finals and a good chance of a flag which is what every kid dreams of. Not hard to sell. Better chance of media and advertising opportunities.
Collingwood to be honest with their position similar to Hawthorn and Richmond have traded poorly to gain the franchise stars they got.
Essendon, Carlton and Melbourne will be just as ruthless when their time comes to take advantage if still available.
My guess is before their time arrives the AFL will intervene to make it harder for the power clubs to offer carrots to lure flag magnets such as Lynch to be captured without a fair trade given...
Be fu..kn graceful and just accept your team was good but had a golden opportunity to exploit it and took it!

Mate my point was he was making excuses for why all the Collingwood trades were fine but discounting the Richmond ones.

I don't give a **** how we get our players, it worked for us and won us 2 flags.

 

[GhostofJimJess]

Have been consistently against Melbourne sides using the new franchises as feeder clubs, was against Beams forcing his return to Collingwood etc.
Richmond paid no price in trade for Lynch, as opposed to the other examples you cite, so it's a false equivalence (GCS took the path of least resistance compensation-wise, to be fair).
Lynch walked out on his club at its lowest ebb as its co-captain to go to the premier of the year before.
Whether it fits your world view or not, Richmond / Hawthorn / Collingwood / continually raiding GCS' talent will never allow the club to get a critical mass together, and Lynch is not the people's underdog.

Two ways to look at the concept of "price" though guts.

Firstly, the cost to a club in draft terms, which you've eluded to, and one that is always to the advantage of the receiving club. I've always been very critical that the receiving club hasn't at least been required to hand over the equivalent draft points value of any free agent. But that's a flaw in the system, not in the the character of players like Tom Lynch, Reece Conca etc who simply execute their rights of free agency, as agreed to by the AFLPA and all clubs at the time of its introduction.

Secondly, and probably just as relevant nowadays, is the cost to a club in terms of salary cap space. We all know that this is a finite amount and needs to be managed meticulously - there is only so much allocated to the serious stars of the game at each club, so by introducing Tom Lynch at $1M/year there is naturally going to be a subsequent squeeze on the rest of the playing list. So the receiving club is generally required to pay overs to firstly extract a player, and secondly to fight off the offers of other clubs if there's a bidding war.

Tradewise, Tom Lynch only really cost the Tigers Reece Conca, as we could access no compensation for him due to getting Lynch, but there was a flow-on effect that Richmond effectively were ruled out of the market for players putting their up for trade at the time like Dylan Shiel, Mitch McGovern etc, and maybe Jeremy Cameron or Joe Daniher looking forward, due to salary cap squeeze.

People bringing up talk of disloyalty are just talking bulls**t.

 

[blaisee]

It is so good to be the kings

I am getting use to this, its like the way it is meant to be .

What a club, what a team, what a time to be alive

 

[Meli]

Wouldn't hear a peep from your type if Lynch chose the club he supported as a kid and not their bigger cousin. He didn't chose the last years premier either as that was eagles. Collingwood even played the granny. Yet he chose the tiges and it burns you so much you come up with this raiding of clubs when Lynch and Prestia chose us, Prestia for pick 6 mind you, and Caddy was from Geelong. Those 3 suns we have are the picks we missed out on so is an even up. Your sour grapes are very sweet in my palette.

Gold

And you wanna know what the best part is? If we didn't have Tom Lynch this year, we wouldn't have won the flag!

TOM LYNCH WON RICHMOND OUR 12th FLAG!


Absolute GOLD!!!

 

[Tiger71]

Lynch was a bargain champ.. the argument was Richmond received him without a trade. I don't particularly like Collingwood but his cold hard facts stand up.
Prestia did cost a trade so you win that argument. Not sure what Caddy cost in trade terms.
Richmond have taken advantage of being a Melbourne based power club in the premiership window that can guarantee a minimum of 7x 60k games, 2 x big finals and a good chance of a flag which is what every kid dreams of. Not hard to sell. Better chance of media and advertising opportunities.
Collingwood to be honest with their position similar to Hawthorn and Richmond have traded poorly to gain the franchise stars they got.
Essendon, Carlton and Melbourne will be just as ruthless when their time comes to take advantage if still available.
My guess is before their time arrives the AFL will intervene to make it harder for the power clubs to offer carrots to lure flag magnets such as Lynch to be captured without a fair trade given...
Be fu..kn graceful and just accept your team was good but had a golden opportunity to exploit it and took it!

You know what though, It was just our turn. People forget we lost Lambert, Maxfield, and we had Lockett done and dusted before the AFL stepped in and ****ed us for the reason to grow the game. That caused us to still be mired in shit for a decade. I am not excusing the club being poorly run, but add that to punch after punch of our talent leaving really ****ed us.

Lynch spent 8 years at GCS. Pies, Hawks and Tigers all chased hard. Do you seriously think none of those that supporters would be upset with Lynch if he had of chosen them?

 

[Elton Johns Wig]

No premiership is a fluke

100% this

 

[Carringbush2010]

Says the guy that JUST HAD to comment on something so " irrelevant ".....


I know you've got a bee in your bonnet over the welfare card thread but that doesn't mean you need to act the beta in a completely separate thread

Says the one who brought up irrelevance in this thread to begin with