List Mgmt. Rioli to Port Discussion

[HoneyBadger35]

Forgive the intrusion everyone, I come in peace.

 

[Monocle]

The Ebert trade was over 10 years ago

And it wasn't even THAT bad, it's just magnified by who we took with pick 28

Be that as it may, it doesn't dilute the validity of the concern.

 

[amazingjoshy]

Be that as it may, it doesn't dilute the validity of the concern.

What about the trade we did with them just last year? To me that signals a good relationship between the two sides

 

[Get_The_Gaff]

Thinking the same. 33 and 43 for Rioli.

Then 33 and our 40 to Essendon for 22.

We retain 43 which will drop down to a high 30's pick after all the bids are matched by Lions and Bombers.

Everyone wins.

Or 26 + 33 + 40 for 15 + Robertson ?

 

[shooshka]

Two things to remember:

Number 1.

Port *ed us over in the Ebert deal we were offered a second and a third for Ebert and our 45. Then Port did a sneaky deal and traded for a lower pick third rounder than what we thought we were getting, Port said and rightly so, that they never stipulated WHICH third we were getting, more fool us because we assumed it was a higher 3rd and then Port trumped us by trading in a lower third. We ended up with picks 28 and 47 for Ebert and 45.


Number 2.

Sure rather than pick 27 = 703 points

Port generously give us:

pick 48 = 302 points
pick 54 = 220 points
pick 56 = 194 points

Total points = 716 points

Port feel chuffed because they actually offer us more points to use in the draft......wow.... "what guys they are" as we are better off points wise.

There is a reason people hate the points system.



You can only ever judge a Club on its history of trading with you as to an indicator as to what they may do going forward, and the fact that they have stiffed us before, does nothing to quell my concerns that they are doing so again.

I think it is also fair to note that we made 2 live trades with Port at the draft last year.

12 for 14 + F2nd, then we traded our F4th for a late pick to get Clark (pretty sure that was just to even up the earlier trade, but who really cares).

I'm fairly certain that the trade for 12 would have been worked out early, and would have been based on a significant level of trust between the 2 parties (Port would have had to say 'if Sinn is there we want him, and will make the trade' and WC would have had to either state or imply we were interested in Chesser).


For Port to now go behind our back and trade 27 just so they can offer us 33 as a FU.... doesn't add up. I'd guess there is enough goodwill there from last year for the parties to have an adult conversation - and whatever Port are working on is moving them closer to making an offer we accept for Junior.


Maybe that is rose coloured glasses, but just looking at past history (Ebert) and not looking at recent history (2021 trades) isn't a complete picture IMO.

 

[Monocle]

What about the trade we did with them just last year? To me that signals a good relationship between the two sides

We will see, on face value the trading out of pick 27 to Melbourne for a bunch of lesser, picks looks less than ideal for us.

Should they then bundle them up and present us with a better pick than pick 27, then sure I will concede the point, however until such happens I feel cynical about your notion that we are in for a " good guy windfall " from Port.

 

[amazingjoshy]

We will see, on face value the trading out of pick 27 to Melbourne for a bunch of lesser, picks looks less than ideal for us.

Should they then bundle them up and present us with a better pick than pick 27, then sure I will concede the point, however until such happens I feel cynical about your notion that we are in for a " good guy windfall " from Port.

Not having a meltdown before we get the full picture is my point, particularly when there's recent evidence of a strong trading relationship. Much stronger evidence than something that happened over 10 years ago that some on this board cannot let go for some reason

 

[briztoon]

Thinking the same. 33 and 43 for Rioli.

Then 33 and our 40 to Essendon for 22.

We retain 43 which will drop down to a high 30's pick after all the bids are matched by Lions and Bombers.

Everyone wins.

After the Ashcroft, Fletcher and Davey matches, I believe later picks will move up between 3 and 4 spots.

Remember, if it takes 2 picks to match a bid, the picks behind only move up one spot.

So if we have 5 picks to match Ashcroft and Fletcher, the picks behind only move up 3 spots, because two of those picks move up to where the bids were made.

 

[Monocle]

Not having a meltdown before we get the full picture is my point,

Point so noted.

Until Port actually come out with an offer we are all guessing, at this point in time I am guessing it's going to be lesser than the draft benefit of pick 27, you are guessing that it's going to be of more benefit than pick 27.

 

[amazingjoshy]

Point so noted.

Until Port actually come out with an offer we are all guessing, at this point in time I am guessing it's going to be lesser than the draft benefit of pick 27, you are guessing that it's going to be of more benefit than pick 27.

Sure, I'd call it more holding fire hoping for the latter, but whatever floats your boat

 

[Ambrose Burnside]

Premature melts and/or making up scenarios in your own head and then ranting about them is what makes this board.

 

[ziad]

Not having a meltdown before we get the full picture is my point,

You obviously dont work with children

 

[Doashuey]

Dream scenario...
Port won't offer Norf what they want and Crows swoop in and grab JHF.
Norf, being shitty with Port, declare they will select Rioli in the PSD and offer him the same contract.
WCE stand firm on pick 8 and Port fold in the last minute of Trade week and pay the price.
Next morning on Sunrise Koshy gets sacked live on air.

 

[ziad]

Dream scenario...
Port won't offer Norf what they want and Crows swoop in and grab JHF.
Norf, being shitty with Port, declare they will select Rioli in the PSD and offer him the same contract.
WCE stand firm on pick 8 and Port fold in the last minute of Trade week and pay the price.
Next morning on Sunrise Koshy gets sacked live on air.

It would take more than that for me to watch morning TV

 

[Obeanie1]

5 I think.

Two things to remember:

Number 1.

Port *ed us over in the Ebert deal we were offered a second and a third for Ebert and our 45. Then Port did a sneaky deal and traded for a lower pick third rounder than what we thought we were getting, Port said and rightly so, that they never stipulated WHICH third we were getting, more fool us because we assumed it was a higher 3rd and then Port trumped us by trading in a lower third. We ended up with picks 28 and 47 for Ebert and 45.


Number 2.

Sure rather than pick 27 = 703 points

Port generously give us:

pick 48 = 302 points
pick 54 = 220 points
pick 56 = 194 points

Total points = 716 points

Port feel chuffed because they actually offer us more points to use in the draft......wow.... "what guys they are" as we are better off points wise.

There is a reason people hate the points system.



You can only ever judge a Club on its history of trading with you as to an indicator as to what they may do going forward, and the fact that they have stiffed us before, does nothing to quell my concerns that they are doing so again.

So who stiffed who in last years pick swap?

 

[Obeanie1]

Or 26 + 33 + 40 for 15 + Robertson ?

How are they trading in Dunkley?

A 2nd and a Fastest that could be 15 to 18?

Can see 15 plus Fast for Dunkley and some junk points picks Dogs won't use.

 

[CountryLad]

If I was West Coast atm apart from having some robust discussions with Rioli’s manager I’d be shopping him hard. He’s got family in Melbourne too.

You would think both Nth and Bombers would have cap space and picks to get it done.

If Port aren’t prepared to pay up why should Eagles let him go for nothing…. Way I see it we owe him nothing

 

[ziad]

If I was West Coast atm apart from having some robust discussions with Rioli’s manager I’d be shopping him hard. He’s got family in Melbourne too.

You would think both Nth and Bombers would have cap space and picks to get it done.

If Port aren’t prepared to pay up why should Eagles let him go for nothing…. Way I see it we owe him nothing

I generally agree, but a significant and very real issue in any organisational change, which a trade is, is the attitude of those retained. Treat departing players as trash sends a clear message to the playing group.

 

[CountryLad]

I generally agree, but a significant and very real issue in any organisational change, which a trade is, is the attitude of those retained. Treat departing players as trash sends a clear message to the playing group.

I’d actually say that’s a good thing…. It says to current players and managers don’t deal with clubs that can’t get a reasonable deal done.

 

[ziad]

I’d actually say that’s a good thing…. It says to current players and managers don’t deal with clubs that can’t get a reasonable deal done.

It also says you are trash to us. Highly motivational.

 

[Doashuey]

It also says you are trash to us. Highly motivational.

WC have gone above and beyond for this bloke and he turns around and does this. I'd say it would motivate the rest of the team to not act like campaigners. I'd also reckon a fair few of the team would wholeheartedly agree with the club if they shopped him around given what he has put the club through.

 

[CountryLad]

It also says you are trash to us. Highly motivational.

I’d disagree with this. Eagles have a good record of getting deals done and think they (players) would be all smart enough to see that if in deed Port try to low ball us it’s in the clubs best interests to get more for him.
Look a Freo Bell is far harder to deal with and we don’t hear how the current playing group have lost faith in the club.
This idea that just because a player or players don’t agree with something means they will be less motivated to play for the club is nonsense.

 

[Barrybran]

 

[06Premiers]

Heard good things about Bob Simonds in the SANFL - might be a good pickup for us?

 

[Eaglemaniac]

Reckon Dark Sharks cat Mr Marbles could out ruck bailey

Mr Marbles with pick 33 please..

 

[ziad]

I’d disagree with this. Eagles have a good record of getting deals done and think they (players) would be all smart enough to see that if in deed Port try to low ball us it’s in the clubs best interests to get more for him.
Look a Freo Bell is far harder to deal with and we don’t hear how the current playing group have lost faith in the club.
This idea that just because a player or players don’t agree with something means they will be less motivated to play for the club is nonsense.

Glad to add to the debate. I guess the answer is that the club would have a good feel (I would hope) for the players feelings on the matter and this would be factored in to their trading and communications.