Martin has found a decent amount of pill and is a superbly clean and skilful player despite his 190+ frame.
Watched him live in the dogs game they played early this year and he was bloody next level.
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Player Watch Rising Star 2022 Discussion
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Watched him live in the dogs game they played early this year and he was bloody next level.
I have Newcombe ahead but to put my Essendon hat on.
He’s averaging 20 touches and a goal which is rarified air for all AFL players let alone rising star eligible players. Leads all rising stars in score involvements for top 40 in the league last I checked. As for the eye test his ball use is just class off both feet and never looks rushed.
But yeah I’d say Newcombe’s ability to win inside footy and gain territory plus having more big games puts him clearly ahead
Being more damaging is wrong, he’s a more skilful kick but there’s plenty of stuff he can do “taking the game on more” which would use his skills more and be constantly going forward. When you look at Newcombe he’s always driving forward and the stats that he was the 2nd best inside 50 kick and number one clearance to score player not long ago shows this.
If Martin can be constantly confident in driving forward he could be even better than he is now, it was the one thing I noted for him. Though Essendons forwardline hasn’t been great so it’s easy to see why he can not wanna drive it in constantly.
It’s the best player, not the best player in a good side.
Or.. 15.7 out of 20.1 disposals are uncontested.. A receiver perhaps if we are being unkind.. A kinder view is a linkman...
Can make stats do all sorts of funny things..
If he is a winger, with cleaner disposal.. And Jai is an inside player getting cheap handballs...
Meters gaines is 443 to 281 per game in Jai's favour.. Seems odd..
The environment in which players are fulfilling there role matters when determining who has been the better player.
Standing out in one of the worst midfields in the comp vs anchoring one of the best backlines in the comp.
I know who I’m taking as the better player
Id take Ginnivan over Martin
But thats my opinion
Happy to be argued against
Doesn't need to get silly
You realise it’s harder to be good in a terrible team than it is to be good in a good team, especially in the backline or forward lines which work as a unit. SDK gets constant help from his other good defenders, especially Stewart.
And no it’s always been the rising star as the best pure player not good in a good side, otherwise you’d be giving it to blokes like Bowey before he was dropped
It’s close tbh. Ginnivan is great.
SSSSSS
Brownlow Medallist
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ND to win unless he does something stupid.
Hard to split Newcombe and SDK. Both sets of supporters would be absolutely ecstatic to get both with minimal draft capital required relative to their talents.
Hard to split Newcombe and SDK. Both sets of supporters would be absolutely ecstatic to get both with minimal draft capital required relative to their talents.
Newcombe is leading in a lot of the stats you would want the 'winger' in Martin to be ahead - Metres gained, goal assists, both Inside 50s and Rebound 50s.
They are relatively even, and both should progress to good careers from here, but Newcombe has just had more of an impact this year.
Daicos will win with 'maximum votes'. 2nd and 3rd will be split between Newcombe and De Koning, and will depend on performance for the remainder of the year - I don't think either one is significantly in front at this stage.
I'd have Martin 4th at the moment, fighting to keep that spot ahead of Ginnivan.
You realise it’s harder to be good in a terrible team than it is to be good in a good team, especially in the backline or forward lines which work as a unit. SDK gets constant help from his other good defenders, especially Stewart.
And no it’s always been the rising star as the best pure player not good in a good side, otherwise you’d be giving it to blokes like Bowey before he was dropped
I disagree with your logic. Do you seriously think Newcombe would be replicating the numbers he’s getting now if he was at Melbourne? He’d go from playing 4 quarters on ball as the go to man to playing a Sparrow/Harmes type role.
What is this “best pure player” crap. Like it or not team results matter when rating players.
For example Darcy Parish is statistically one of the best clearance, centre clearance and score involvement mids in the comp but rightfully no one with half a brain has him near the AA side because what do all those number mean if he’s part of a midfield unit that has only won 5 or 6 games this year.
VinnieB
Norm Smith Medallist
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I really don’t know what the purpose of this is. It’s no surprise that Geelong is currently the best team in the game and so it would be more difficult for De Koning to be judged one of the best 4 or 5 players in each game give who he is competing against.
Parish was very good but he lacks certainty things for the next step. Irrelevant nonetheless as the rising star is different.
It’s the best pure player because why should someone in a better team get leniency because they’re in a good side? Also Newcombe is performing at a high standard in an inconsistent midfield and team.
SDK is playing in a defensive unit, he gets help from intercept players like Stewart etc and he has constant pressure afield which makes his job as a key defender easier. Do you really think he’s doing that in a team like Hawthorns or North or anyone down the bottom or even the middle? He’d be constantly under the pump and it’s hard to defend while under the pump and with a less defensive help system.
It’s nothing against him, but I don’t see the whole good team thing being any use or correlation to the rising star.
VinnieB
Norm Smith Medallist
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And he generally hits targets.
It’s also hard in general as a key defender as there’s rarely ever one who gets there unless they’re a big intercepting type.
VinnieB
Norm Smith Medallist
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Don’t know how you can really compare a midfielder v a key defender. Both had good years. If I was picking one, I’d have De Koning ahead because he plays an important role at Geelong and has excelled at it. Also, it seems rare for a key position kid to perform at his level so early.
fpm84
Brownlow Medallist
The same Stewart who has missed the last three games when SDK held Ben Brown and Harry McKay to a combined one goal, when they average a combined 4.2 goals this season?
I said like Stewart big fella. You’ve got an all round good defense and good defensive unit. You’re also really good upfield which means SDK isn’t really ever under the pump as a key defender like he would be in a poor side.The same Stewart who has missed the last three games when SDK held Ben Brown and Harry McKay to a combined one goal, when they average a combined 4.2 goals this season?
Martin can improve his inside game and hopefully his tank to accumulate more, he’s a real talent. Someone his height who is as clean and as skilful is hard to find.
The stop on Harry Mckay was really impressive, one of the best performances from a key back, let alone young key backThe same Stewart who has missed the last three games when SDK held Ben Brown and Harry McKay to a combined one goal, when they average a combined 4.2 goals this season?
But Ben Brown sucks, its hardly a scalp, never the less, DeKoning is allready a very good player and will be a star
For sure, agree here. Although he was in the contests in which Curnow kicked two goals. Mainly due to Henry switching and being too aggressive which leaves SDK one out.
fpm84
Brownlow Medallist
I agree BBB sucks but SDK still held him below his season average in terms of scoring.
My point was around SDK still performing while Stewart has been out of the side, including back to back wins against top 8 sides, which I think only gives extra credability to how good he has been this season.
I think all that needs to be said in this thread is that Pies, Hawks and Cats fans are extremely happy to have NDaicos, Newcombe and SDK on their lists for the next decade plus.
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