Roos has his say on Victoria's "crisis".

[DeadlyAkkuret]

I particularly loved this section of his article, but the whole thing is right on the money.

Let's not forget that two of the richest clubs in the competition are Collingwood and Essendon. I believe it is cyclical and we are already seeing Hawthorn's young kids getting better and there's no doubt Carlton next year will be a lot better as their young list continues to develop.

You do know that the best kids coming out of the draft now are consistently picks one, two and three.

So if you are continually finishing near the bottom, you are adding Generation Next players to your list at the same time the top teams aren't getting those elite young players.

I've been supporting the Swans for 13 years this season, and i think they've only missed the finals two times at the most. During that time they never "bottomed-out", and had to fight for success, with good player management and common sense coaching.

http://www.news.com.au/dailytelegraph/story/0,22049,21828982-5006065,00.html

 

[EagleMan87]

Eagles have finished out of the finals 3 times in 20 years, yet we're still having a tilt at a premiership along with Sydney

 

[DeadlyAkkuret]

Eagles have finished out of the finals 3 times in 20 years, yet we're still having a tilt at a premiership along with Sydney

I think it's something to be proud of. Don't get me wrong, i think the Hawks have an amazing young list, and their selectors had to be smart enough to get the right talent, but staying in the top 8 without relying on the best draft picks, is something i really admire about my team, and the Eagles.

 

[Hawkamania!]

Sydney and West Coast have great recruiting departments that scout talent that other clubs don't on a more regular basis. Collingwood and Hawthorn has addressed the issue with more manpower in their recruitment departments. Expect other teams to do the same.

On the other spectrum (and I'm not having a go just stating a fact) Richmond spend the least on it's recruiting department. Richmond are now aware of this and will be looking to add to their recruiters soon.

 

[timthefish]

Eagles have finished out of the finals 3 times in 20 years, yet we're still having a tilt at a premiership along with Sydney

which is consistent with the suggestion that it is other expenditure, such as staff and facilities, that is allowing us to maintain a high standard. it's not just an issue of recruitment, it's more about football department and other expenditure. the non-victorian clubs generally have enough cash to do whatever they want. (those that are presently "up" are of course spending big to maximise the peak of their success). collingwood and essendon have similar access to cash and can support their players well. carlton will soon regain that kind of position but have been down for a while because elliot wasted their money and brought the club into disrepute which earned them hefty penalties. the kangaroos are presently bucking the trend, but will they maintain that for this season let alone the next two? (three up years is a general minimum for the recently successful). geelong got their finances together 3 or 4 years ago and are now looking like they may produce a period of consistent success (but probably won't as usual).

group the rich stable victorians with the non-vics and you get

year                 premier              runner up             minor prem
2001                 brisbane             essendon              essendon
2002                 brisbane             collingwood           port adelaide
2003                 brisbane             collingwood           port adelaide
2004                 port adelaide        brisbane              port adelaide
2005                 sydney               west coast            adelaide
2006                 west coast           sydney                west coast

so of 15 prestigious finishes over the past five years, not a single team outside of the rich, stable teams (non vics + pies and dons). the odds of this happening purely by chance = (8 "rich clubs" / 16 total)^15 spots = 1/2^15 = 1/32768 = 0.0030518% = tiny.

this is of course a very simplistic analysis, but the numbers really are stacking up against the teams without large war chests.

 

[dan warna]

I particularly loved this section of his article, but the whole thing is right on the money.

I've been supporting the Swans for 13 years this season, and i think they've only missed the finals two times at the most. During that time they never "bottomed-out", and had to fight for success, with good player management and common sense coaching.

http://www.news.com.au/dailytelegraph/story/0,22049,21828982-5006065,00.html

salary cap.

 

[GAMBLER]

Sydney and West Coast have great recruiting departments that scout talent that other clubs don't on a more regular basis. Collingwood and Hawthorn has addressed the issue with more manpower in their recruitment departments. Expect other teams to do the same.

On the other spectrum (and I'm not having a go just stating a fact) Richmond spend the least on it's recruiting department. Richmond are now aware of this and will be looking to add to their recruiters soon.

Agree, its no coincidence that the highest performing Victorian clubs are the clubs that are spending the most amount of $$$ on recruitment.

 

[PowerForGood]

which is consistent with the suggestion that it is other expenditure, such as staff and facilities, that is allowing us to maintain a high standard. it's not just an issue of recruitment, it's more about football department and other expenditure. the non-victorian clubs generally have enough cash to do whatever they want. (those that are presently "up" are of course spending big to maximise the peak of their success). collingwood and essendon have similar access to cash and can support their players well. carlton will soon regain that kind of position but have been down for a while because elliot wasted their money and brought the club into disrepute which earned them hefty penalties. the kangaroos are presently bucking the trend, but will they maintain that for this season let alone the next two? (three up years is a general minimum for the recently successful). geelong got their finances together 3 or 4 years ago and are now looking like they may produce a period of consistent success (but probably won't as usual).

group the rich stable victorians with the non-vics and you get

year                 premier              runner up             minor prem
2001                 brisbane             essendon              essendon
2002                 brisbane             collingwood           port adelaide
2003                 brisbane             collingwood           port adelaide
2004                 port adelaide        brisbane              port adelaide
2005                 sydney               west coast            adelaide
2006                 west coast           sydney                west coast

so of 15 prestigious finishes over the past five years, not a single team outside of the rich, stable teams (non vics + pies and dons). the odds of this happening purely by chance = (8 "rich clubs" / 16 total)^15 spots = 1/2^15 = 1/32768 = 0.0030518% = tiny.

this is of course a very simplistic analysis, but the numbers really are stacking up against the teams without large war chests.

I wouldn't put Port Adelaide in the Rich List.

 

[Hawkk]

Let's not forget that two of the richest clubs in the competition are Collingwood and Essendon. I believe it is cyclical and we are already seeing Hawthorn's young kids getting better and there's no doubt Carlton next year will be a lot better as their young list continues to develop.

You do know that the best kids coming out of the draft now are consistently picks one, two and three.

The trick is to maximise the talent...

To maximise talent you need to spend $$$ on training facilities/specialised coaches etc. or the talent goes to waste. That is where the majority of Victorian clubs are falling behind the pack.

Unless Victorian clubs can left their revenue, they are only going to fall further and further behind.

 

[Timmy from Thomastown]

I particularly loved this section of his article, but the whole thing is right on the money.

I've been supporting the Swans for 13 years this season, and i think they've only missed the finals two times at the most. During that time they never "bottomed-out", and had to fight for success, with good player management and common sense coaching.

Thats a typo. He meant to say common sense poaching.

 

[strategy]

There is NO CRISIS .Its just there are too many teams in Victoria and 3 have to merge into 1 team.
Also the recruitment people etc have to be wiser to the up and coming players all over Australia .
The coaches have to let the kids grow up and NOT burn them out .
The pre season has to be scrapped and the comp into " each team plays each other twice at each others home grounds " .
The media has to stop putting the young kids on a pedestal when they are developing , too much pressure on them .
The pace of the game has developed more quickly than certain coaches / clubs have believed and they have been caught out with " slow old type of players " .

There is NO crisis ,its how the clubs are managed . Some have been poorly managed, propped up by the AFL and TV $$$$ and it must STOP .The population is not there to support the unfinancial teams so why not merge them and become a strong unit as one team ?

 

[Hawkk]

There is NO CRISIS .Its just there are too many teams in Victoria and 3 have to merge into 1 team.

Mergers don't work with 2 parties, let alone 3.

People underestimate the difficulties of a merger...

 

[strategy]

Mergers don't work with 2 parties, let alone 3.

People underestimate the difficulties of a merger...

You pool finances together , get the best ground to have as a home ground etc , cull the players ,pay out contracts , membership goes ok ,no big deal .Lawyers ,AFL , commonsense will prevail.
The coach ,easy : pick the most innovative and succesful coach that applies for the job.
Then pick a Jumper that has all 3 clubs colours , patterns etc .
Then kick butt and the new club would win more games .

 

[MarkT]

this is of course a very simplistic analysis, but the numbers really are stacking up against the teams without large war chests.

Port don’t have a hell of a lot of money. Collingwood made the GF in 2002 after being broke and by 2002 were still a mile off where they are today, albeit heading toward it.

It may still be a telling stat. You could also look at the period around 7 years post start up and find a compelling set of stats for WCE, Adeleide, Brisbane/Lions, Port. Then again the salary cap allowance stats are very telling as well. 5 of the last 6 flags, 6 of the last 6 GFs. My suspicion is all of these factors – money, startups, salary cap allowances have contributes as well as good management. Anything that positively impacts list management in a such a highly controlled player market has huge implications.

 

[lazy]

Merger of 3 Vic clubs huh?

What about the Melbourne Kanga Dogs?


Paul Roos is wasted as an AFL coach - should go into politics or at least take Vlads spot and fix up footy altogether.

 

[RUNVS]

Its all about Recruitment and recognition of talent. Look at Essendon for example - they said that both Malceski and Ted Richards were not good enough to play for their club but when both players went to Sydney they have turned into great recruits and will no doubt be great for the Swans for the next 10 years. Sydney recognised their talent, Essendon didnt.

 

[lazy]

Its all about Recruitment and recognition of talent. Look at Essendon for ezample - they said that both Malceski and Ted Richards were not good enough to play for their club but when both players went to Sydney they have turned into great recruits and will no doubt be great for the Swans for the next 10 years. Sydney recognised their talent, Essendon didnt.

All teams have their good recruiting stories that make them sound great but they all have bad ones.

We got C Bolton from Brisbane and he turned into an all australian.

We also recruited the likes of Daffy and many more that I dont care to list as it hurts to admit it. Mostly old use by dates over players.

 

[Timmy from Thomastown]

Its all about Recruitment and recognition of talent. Look at Essendon for example - they said that both Malceski and Ted Richards were not good enough to play for their club but when both players went to Sydney they have turned into great recruits and will no doubt be great for the Swans for the next 10 years. Sydney recognised their talent, Essendon didnt.

They rated Richie Cole and Scott Camporeale though.

 

[sydney eagle]

You pool finances together , get the best ground to have as a home ground etc , cull the players ,pay out contracts , membership goes ok ,no big deal .Lawyers ,AFL , commonsense will prevail.
The coach ,easy : pick the most innovative and succesful coach that applies for the job.
Then pick a Jumper that has all 3 clubs colours , patterns etc .
Then kick butt and the new club would win more games .

That looks all well and good "strategy" but would you be happy if YOUR team was one of those being amalgamated, lost their jumper, had to play at a new home ground, changed their name etc ?

 

[Tuco]

The bigget clubs, with the largest fan bases and the best facilities have dominated the VFL/AFL for generations. The fact is that the so-called "interstate" clubs are merely now all the same size as the traditional Victorian powerhouse clubs that shared most of the Premierships between 3 or 4 clubs for a 100 years.

Collingwood and Essendon are two of the biggest, most successful clubs in football. But these days rather than towering over their local Melbourne rivals and pretty much owning the silverware along with a couple of other clubs every season, they are simply on a par with the larger clubs from outside of Victoria and are facing the kind of competition their smaller rivals have suffered since time immemmorial.

We don't want to see the quality of the competition drop to allow the poorer clubs to compete. Injury rates are dropping due to improved fitness and player management. And what we want is for the smaller clubs to get their acts together and reach these same standards.

I applaud Hawthorn for sticking to their guns, building a list and getting their finances right offield. And if Collingwood hits $100M turnover, then something must going alright for Melbourne teams.

 

[MF]

Thats a typo. He meant to say common sense poaching.

LOL. Pretty rich coming from Collingwood. Buckley??? Rocca?? Licuria??

 

[raskolnikov]

Its all about Recruitment and recognition of talent. Look at Essendon for example - they said that both Malceski and Ted Richards were not good enough to play for their club but when both players went to Sydney they have turned into great recruits and will no doubt be great for the Swans for the next 10 years. Sydney recognised their talent, Essendon didnt.

That's just stupid. All clubs make bad recruiting decisions. True, some make more bad decisions than others(hello to all the Freo fans out there). Players perform differently under different regimes. Look at Gehrig who was a dud at the Eagles but thrived at the Saints, or Wellman who was a nobody at Adelaide but was an integral part of Essendon's premiership team.

 

[moistie]

There is NO CRISIS .Its just there are too many teams in Victoria and 3 have to merge into 1 team.

You'd support the Western Kangaroo Bombers then, would you?

 

[tandino]

You pool finances together , get the best ground to have as a home ground etc , cull the players ,pay out contracts , membership goes ok ,no big deal .Lawyers ,AFL , commonsense will prevail.
The coach ,easy : pick the most innovative and succesful coach that applies for the job.
Then pick a Jumper that has all 3 clubs colours , patterns etc .
Then kick butt and the new club would win more games .

Oh yeah, sounds like the Melbourne Hawks and the Fitzroy-North Melbourne Kangaroos back in the 90's

 

[Hammo]

I applaud Hawthorn for sticking to their guns, building a list and getting their finances right offield. And if Collingwood hits $100M turnover, then something must going alright for Melbourne teams.

The cynical way Hawthorn has gone about "building" their list is worse for the game than any interstate domination.

Just like St Kilda's tanking for priority picks, and now their chronic injuries, it's funny how karma always catches up with you.

Sydney haven't had a top 3 draft pick since Jarred McVeigh in 2002, and have played finals consistently for a decade. West Coast and Adelaide the same.