Roast Ross Lyon: Man on the plank.

[kernelT]

Jungle drums are beating for Ross with our small turnouts to home games and weekly pressure coming from the media, the general perception is that we are terrible to watch.

His biggest Achilles as a coach has always been scoring which continues to plague him, can he pull a rabbit out of a hat and reignite this group or will die by the sword of defence?

If Battle follows Gresham out the door then we are staring down the barrel of a mini-rebuild while we wait for draftees to come on, how many years of 7 goal games will we see while we keep the faith in Ross?

Discuss.

 

[Miha]

I think and hope we don’t go a full bottom out. I’m confident that’s not the idea thigh Ross was probably surprised we got finals last year. We were able to keep teams to low scores last year while being able to get at least 12 goals ourselves. Our issue has and always will be the midfield and delivery into our F50. We already look a bit better with Dow and Clark running through the middle whilst Mitchito looked good through there as well.

I hope Battle stays but if he wants a big pay day cannot blame him. Would be a shame as I see him as a future captain.

I think we’ll get things right, I back our recruiters. 20 players OOC atm, it’s going to be a big offseason

 

[malevu]

Maybe it's time for wonder boy Max King

12

Max King

Age

24

Ht

202cm

Wt

100kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

7.3

2star

K

4.7

2star

HB

2.6

2star

M

2.7

3star

T

0.7

3star

G

1.4

5star

D

7.3

2star

K

4.7

2star

HB

2.6

2star

M

2.7

3star

T

0.7

1star

G

1.4

5star

D

8.0

2star

K

5.2

2star

HB

2.8

3star

M

2.8

3star

T

0.6

3star

G

1.4

5star

to start delivering on his "potential". I think by now we should be expecting Ming to be kicking bags of 7 on his own. As it is 3 goals still seems like a wet dream.

 

[Dr Spaceman]

Looking at the state of the list at the end of 2022.

And listening to Bassat and Lyon at the time of the latter’s appointment.

And considering the injury list during the first part of the season.

I would say we’re exactly where I’d expect us to be.

Of course it’s disappointing.

But I thought the appointment was correct at the time and nothing has changed, to date at least, to make me think otherwise.

 

[god_of_the_universe]

He's nowhere near the plank at the moment.

We have to out shithouse our opponents at the moment because the our defence is our strongest area.

No chance we're going to win a shootout with another team when we can't hit a target inside 50, and our 2 key forwards are woefully out of form.

 

[The Slug]

The default response from our club and supporters whenever the going gets tough has always been to move on the coach. It's never solved anything. We need to stay the course with RTB even if he isn't going to ultimately be the coach to take us to a flag.

The winds of change have been blowing through every department of the club and will continue at years end with the playing list. Moving on the head coach would be pretty self destructive at this point. Time is required for these changes to take effect and so the club can keep moving in the one direction. Obviously our list management and drafting decisions over the next couple of years are going to be critical.

I know we are a hard watch at the moment, but I think the wheel will start to turn eventually, particularly with our offense (hopefully sooner rather than later). Things are never as bad as they seem, they just need to keep at it.

 

[sammm]

The default response from our club and supporters whenever the going gets tough has always been to move on the coach. It's never solved anything. We need to stay the course with RTB even if he isn't going to ultimately be the coach to take us to a flag.

The winds of change have been blowing through every department of the club and will continue at years end with the playing list. Moving on the head coach would be pretty self destructive at this point. Time is required for these changes to take effect and so the club can keep moving in the one direction. Obviously our list management and drafting decisions over the next couple of years are going to be critical.

I know we are a hard watch at the moment, but I think the wheel will start to turn eventually, particularly with our offense (hopefully sooner rather than later). Things are never as bad as they seem, they just need to keep at it.

lately it has not been the default response.

Alan Richardson, how many years? Ratten how many years? etc etc early in the 90's yeah, we'd get rid of coaches very easily. not lately though. Ratten should have waited until the end of the year before re-signing him, and then got Lyon,

i have disliked lyon since he came in, in this 2nd coming. however, now we have to give him his 4 years, and see what occurs. hopefully we don't re-sign him after 2.5 years wait until mid 4th year.

As well getting rid of him early means getting rid of everyone around him. As the club went full bore and got whoever he wanted.

 

[sammm]

The default response from our club and supporters whenever the going gets tough has always been to move on the coach. It's never solved anything. We need to stay the course with RTB even if he isn't going to ultimately be the coach to take us to a flag.

The winds of change have been blowing through every department of the club and will continue at years end with the playing list. Moving on the head coach would be pretty self destructive at this point. Time is required for these changes to take effect and so the club can keep moving in the one direction. Obviously our list management and drafting decisions over the next couple of years are going to be critical.

I know we are a hard watch at the moment, but I think the wheel will start to turn eventually, particularly with our offense (hopefully sooner rather than later). Things are never as bad as they seem, they just need to keep at it.

lately it has not been the default response.

Alan Richardson, how many years? Ratten how many years? etc etc early in the 90's yeah, we'd get rid of coaches very easily. not lately though. Ratten should have waited until the end of the year before re-signing him, and then got Lyon,

i have disliked lyon since he came in in this 2nd coming. however, now we have to give him his 4 years, and see what occurs. hopefully we don't re-sign him after 2.5 years wait until mid 4th year.

 

[Riewoldt]

Two wins in a row and we have a sack the coach thread I understand the impatience but this would almost certainly set us back (again, for the zillionth time in 150 years).

 

[Bill Crouse]

Ross Lyon is such a negative coach. We would never kick 7 goals or less with good old Ratts...
I can't believe his defensive mindset has ruined our incredible playing list.

 

[luca77]

Two wins in a row and we have a sack the coach thread I understand the impatience but this would almost certainly set us back (again, for the zillionth time in 150 years).

KernelT channelling his inner Caroline Wilson. It's a bit embarrassing tbh.

 

[jimmytigs]

i dont know how anyone can advocate keeping both ming and RTB,either RTB has to change the gameplan to suit the player we are supposedly building our next flag run around(keeping in mind that steele sincs wilkie marshall wont be there by then)or ming is just simply useless,something has to give

if ming is our centerpiece,play the game with that in mind,if he is useless,get him out for a good return before other clubs realise it,if RTB cannot coach to allow ming to play to his pick 4 great white hope potential,then find someone who can

because right now i dont give a rats ass how it will be spun=RTB AND MING IS NOT WORKING

im open to being told which one is at fault,but every game i watch is telling me im not wrong

 

[kernelT]

KernelT channelling his inner Caroline Wilson. It's a bit embarrassing tbh.

It's embarrassing to watch us this year.

FWIW I don't want to see a knee-jerk sacking but I don't think we can afford to have talented kids regressing for too long, if we're bottom 4, kicking 7 goals next year and the kids still look like emo teenagers then I think we'll see a change.

 

[Winmar2Lockett]

i dont know how anyone can advocate keeping both ming and RTB,either RTB has to change the gameplan to suit the player we are supposedly building our next flag run around(keeping in mind that steele sincs wilkie marshall wont be there by then)or ming is just simply useless,something has to give

if ming is our centerpiece,play the game with that in mind,if he is useless,get him out for a good return before other clubs realise it,if RTB cannot coach to allow ming to play to his pick 4 great white hope potential,then find someone who can

because right now i dont give a rats ass how it will be spun=RTB AND MING IS NOT WORKING

im open to being told which one is at fault,but every game i watch is telling me im not wrong

It worked pretty well last year & Max had a busted wing for most of it.

Reckon his knee is really giving him issues.

As for what is causing it I suggest you look further up the ground. Time & time again on Saturday night Max got a break on Andrew only to be ignored or have the ball kicked over his head.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[gringo2011]

Maybe it's time for wonder boy Max King to start delivering on his "potential". I think by now we should be expecting Ming to be kicking bags of 7 on his own. As it is 3 goals still seems like a wet dream.

If we are in bottom out mode we might as well trade him while he has value. No point wasting him while we rebuild. Let him have a career.

 

[austinnn]

This thread is a joke. If we sack Lyon, what do we do, start again? Instruct the next coach that the fans don't want a rebuild so just try and get a premiership with most of what you are given? How long does that guy get?

How do you think his sacking will be recieved by the footy world, do you think it paints a good picture of our club?

His assistants might need a shake up, but let the man work and thank your lucky stars we're not North.

 

[Oh When the Saints]

Hilarious. Like him or loathe him, Lyon will see out his contract. A part of the reason he was brought in was to raise standards and make the whole football department more professional and accountable. All the feedback from those who attend training and from player interviews is that he has done just that.

St Kilda has given more games to draftees in the last 2 years than any other team except West Coast. Lyon has played the kids. We are exposing our youth and developing them at the same time as being competitive in every single match in 2024 except one (v Dogs).

I know a few North supporters who would kill for a strong defensive structure to give them a crack in every game, regardless of the spectacle.

If the Saints had kicked 1 more goal against the Bombers and Hawks this year (with our players failing to execute some obvious chances - not the coach's fault), we would be equal 8th and one game off 4th. The Blues have won 2 games by a point – drop those and they are 10th. It's a very fine line this year and there is not much between 2nd and 15th. We have been really stiff and the extra 2% that needed to go our way this year just hasn't.

Lyon knows that playing an open, attacking style would result in us losing just as many games, as we don't have the talent to pull it off.

Ratts averaged just 4 points per game more than Lyon with a more experienced team. So the idea that this current playing group is capable of some offensive, high-scoring footy is not correct when you look at the evidence under 2 senior coaches. We just don't have the cattle to kick 100+ every week as we have the worst midfield in the comp.

This coming off-season will be the first with SOS and Dalrymple having full control. By the start of next year, the playing group will be (a) younger and (b) more reflective of Lyon rather than what he inherited. Maybe another 12-18 months and then it's time for a realistic assessment of RTB.

 

[kernelT]

This thread is a joke. If we sack Lyon, what do we do, start again? Instruct the next coach that the fans don't want a rebuild so just try and get a premiership with most of what you are given? How long does that guy get?

How do you think his sacking will be recieved by the footy world, do you think it paints a good picture of our club?

His assistants might need a shake up, but let the man work and thank your lucky stars we're not North.

Why is it a joke? Is Ross above scrutiny?

Some people suggest that the game plan and player development is on the wrong track, having a thread to discuss it seems reasonable.

 

[gringo2011]

The default response from our club and supporters whenever the going gets tough has always been to move on the coach. It's never solved anything. We need to stay the course with RTB even if he isn't going to ultimately be the coach to take us to a flag.

The winds of change have been blowing through every department of the club and will continue at years end with the playing list. Moving on the head coach would be pretty self destructive at this point. Time is required for these changes to take effect and so the club can keep moving in the one direction. Obviously our list management and drafting decisions over the next couple of years are going to be critical.

I know we are a hard watch at the moment, but I think the wheel will start to turn eventually, particularly with our offense (hopefully sooner rather than later). Things are never as bad as they seem, they just need to keep at it.

Aren't Lyon and Richo our two longest serving coaches? Watters and Ratts didn't get long but now we are back to recycling the same guys

 

[gringo2011]

Hilarious. Like him or loathe him, Lyon will see out his contract. A part of the reason he was brought in was to raise standards and make the whole football department more professional and accountable. All the feedback from those who attend training and from player interviews is that he has done just that.

St Kilda has given more games to draftees in the last 2 years than any other team except West Coast. Lyon has played the kids. We are exposing our youth and developing them at the same time as being competitive in every single match in 2024 except one (v Dogs).

I know a few North supporters who would kill for a strong defensive structure to give them a crack in every game, regardless of the spectacle.

If the Saints had kicked 1 more goal against the Bombers and Hawks this year (with our players failing to execute some obvious chances - not the coach's fault), we would be equal 8th and one game off 4th. The Blues have won 2 games by a point – drop those and they are 10th. It's a very fine line this year and there is not much between 2nd and 15th. We have been really stiff and the extra 2% that needed to go our way this year just hasn't.

Lyon knows that playing an open, attacking style would result in us losing just as many games, as we don't have the talent to pull it off.

Ratts averaged just 4 points per game more than Lyon with a more experienced team. So the idea that this current playing group is capable of some offensive, high-scoring footy is not correct when you look at the evidence under 2 senior coaches. We just don't have the cattle to kick 100+ every week as we have the worst midfield in the comp.

This coming off-season will be the first with SOS and Dalrymple having full control. By the start of next year, the playing group will be (a) younger and (b) more reflective of Lyon rather than what he inherited. Maybe another 12-18 months and then it's time for a realistic assessment of RTB.

He shouldn't if he doesn't deliver. That's ridiculous.

 

[Saintbloke]

Lyon is here due a rich man's fantasy of seeing the Saints of 2010 in 2024. Like painting a rusty car.

 

[Diehard Saint]

Why is it a joke? Is Ross above scrutiny?

Some people suggest that the game plan and player development is on the wrong track, having a thread to discuss it seems reasonable.

No, he’s not.
But to have a thread with a question about when he’ll be sacked a whole one and a half seasons into his tenure is crazy.

We overachieved last year and most of us accept that, and the fact that there’s a helluva lot still needs to be done with this list.

 

[PoppedCorn]

You can’t kick 7 when delivery is worse than Uber eats

 

[StFly]

Aren't Lyon and Richo our two longest serving coaches? Watters and Ratts didn't get long but now we are back to recycling the same guys

You forgot a guy named Allan who heads that list.

Jeans
Lyon
Richardson
Thomas
Alves
Sheldon
Ratten
Jesaulenko
Baldock
Gellie

Our top 10 coaches, Allan Jeans on 315 games, Graeme Gellie on 62, tied with Baldock.

Suffice to say, when you consider;

GT ended up running the footy dept before falling out with Butts.
Lyon is currently in his second stint.
Richo was kept simply because we had no money to give anyone and he stuck around.
We rehired then immediately knifed Ratten.

Our top 7 is really a "maybe top 3" as Jeans, Lyon and Alves have all reached the GF, the only other one to do so was George Sparrow back just pre WW1. Ken tried, Ansell tried, but we've not had many finals bound coaches in our history, obviously. It's really only the AFL rebranding where we kind of removed the finger a bit.

You know the outlier? Brendon Lade, 1 game as coach, for one 1 win. Round 5, 2022. It's him, obviously at 100% win rate, then next best is the bloke this thread is named after at 62%.

 

[kernelT]

No, he’s not.
But to have a thread with a question about when he’ll be sacked a whole one and a half seasons into his tenure is crazy.

We overachieved last year and most of us accept that, and the fact that there’s a helluva lot still needs to be done with this list.

We sacked the last coach a few weeks after extending him for two years… was that crazy or good business?

Ross has been granted every request he’s made, if we’re not seeing improvement from our talented kids and a willingness to attack then he’s probably not the guy. Hopefully things turn with a bit of injury luck, but we have been pretty ordinary for a year now.