Toast Ross Lyon returns to St.Kilda #UnfinishedBusiness

[L_W_P]

I'm sure the club looked at JRoo (as well as Frawley who went pick 12) but we weren't wanting for KPP at that point.

Let's not forget too, that JRoo's greatness/longevity is all down to how Dimma has used him and the understanding that winning Coleman medals doesn't translate to team success.

JRoo wasn't gonna be getting games in front of Kosi in 2007. Best bet would have been the 3rd tall role that Jimmy Gwilt had for the first half of 2009. By finals though we had abandoned that in favor of a smaller set up with Dempster moving to play as a HFF-Tagger on dangerous halfbacks.

Would have been an entirely different development and could have gone the way of Tommy Lynch.

 

[sauce_head]

They should never have sacked Bolten.

They should never have had a brownlow medalist

 

[gringo2011]

All much easier said than done. You can only recruit who is available, who wants to come to the club and if an oppo club is happy with what is being offered.

I've got no issue with upgrading Gags to Cripps or someone with more runs on the board but he does cop an unfair rap IMO.

It will be fascinating to see what influence Ross & the new set up has on attracting players to the club. We certainly seem to be in a much better shape to drag a few through the door.

I think Lyon is right about it being fast to turn around. That Tigers list in 2016 was pretty abysmal when you look at it. They were carrying a lot of spuds. 2017 they added a few but it was the system that changed and turned them around. I doubt anyone looked at them as a dynasty team before the season started.

What Ross does add is a statement of intent. Most managers look now and would be seeing a club demanding excellence and improvement across the board. If we nail our drafting it's going to go a long way towards becoming a destination. We have to add some seriously good talent and maximise it now but overall I think this period will change a lot os perception around us.

 

[gringo2011]

Do me a favour.

List what we gave up in the draft period including the players taken in that draft pick.

I suggest you are only going to be upset about Serong.

So the Net gain more than covers the loss

I'd say we have gained a lot of good even talent but they are easy to get without giving up a lot of capital for. If Hill can be used by Lyon it might make it work out in our favour but that draft and trade period we made a lot happen but not sure it was the right timing and a misread on where we were at as a list. I think the trade with GWS was a good one but we probably would have been better to draft hard and now when the trees were growing some fruit, then start chasing some mature talent to help take the next step. It's all history now and we have just got to hope that Rosco is able to extract more from what we have while topping up from underneath.

 

[stavro#4]

I'd say we have gained a lot of good even talent but they are easy to get without giving up a lot of capital for. If Hill can be used by Lyon it might make it work out in our favour but that draft and trade period we made a lot happen but not sure it was the right timing and a misread on where we were at as a list. I think the trade with GWS was a good one but we probably would have been better to draft hard and now when the trees were growing some fruit, then start chasing some mature talent to help take the next step. It's all history now and we have just got to hope that Rosco is able to extract more from what we have while topping up from underneath.

But the talent has to be on the market to make the deal.

That’s what dictates the timing.

 

[Sun Ra]

I think Lyon is right about it being fast to turn around. That Tigers list in 2016 was pretty abysmal when you look at it. They were carrying a lot of spuds. 2017 they added a few but it was the system that changed and turned them around. I doubt anyone looked at them as a dynasty team before the season started.

What Ross does add is a statement of intent. Most managers look now and would be seeing a club demanding excellence and improvement across the board. If we nail our drafting it's going to go a long way towards becoming a destination. We have to add some seriously good talent and maximise it now but overall I think this period will change a lot os perception around us.

If Windhager or Owens can somehow morph into a Dustin Martin type in the next 2 years, you are on the money.

 

[gringo2011]

To be fair, gringo2011 is struggling to be negative after the events of recent days.

Just like the players will have to adapt to a new game plan, he will have to adapt to everyone being happy and positive.

And indeed the G Man himself does seems happy. However years of being miserable can be very difficult to completely overcome.

Allow him this little vinegar hit

I'm not being negative, a few old wingers can't handle Gags copping any flack and keep trying to get into an argument. We are finally moving forward but now a few posters want to pretend that nothing was ever wrong with our previous direction because they need to be able to live in denial.

You are guys are the vinegar peddlers, I was having a very good time celebrating moving forward finally. I feel vindicated in what I saw as issues because the club is fixing a lot of them. I'll shut up now and let them go on about how great he is....until we move on from him in a couple of years and everyone will bag him out and pretend that they never thought he was any good.

 

[gringo2011]

But the talent has to be on the market to make the deal.

That’s what dictates the timing.

There is always more coming up. Hill hasn't really been used in anyway to benefit us and hasn't got that long left and Ryder has been and gone. I think we made a meal of the drafting and trading in the past and that will come out in the Noble report. Hopefully like most of what the club has been doing lately it's addressed and we move forward.

 

[Jetafl]

Harves looks ecstatic to be reunited with Ross as an assistant.

 

[stavro#4]

If Windhager or Owens can somehow morph into a Dustin Martin type in the next 2 years, you are on the money.

Disagree.

King could explode into a genuine match winning star.

In 2020/21 Steele kicked on average 0.6 goals a game (1/2 roughly). Fell away last season.

For the amount of time Marshall played forward in the last 3 years. He only kicked 10+ once (2020). His stats across the board fell away from his 2019 peak.

If we can turn Windhager and Owens into legitimate midfielders at AFL Level + bring the top 3 points into account.

That’s some very good improvement.

Keep in mind we had the 15th best attack this season. 7th best defence.

A top 4 defence and a top 8 attack would have us in the top 6.

Our attack will dictate our improvement. Our level of defence will dictate the type of attacking chances we get.

Immediately - intercept transition is one that the eye test tells me that we need to improve one.

 

[bergholt]

As for Acres - jeez I wish people would stop including him in the Hill deal as if it was a significant mistake. It wasn't - once we got Hill, Acres was $500K+ GOP running around at Sandringham.

Oh I was fine with trading him, but he had some minor value and so that increases the amount we paid for Hill.

 

[L_W_P]

I'm not David King's biggest fan but he was spot on about this appointment - The next two years the ladder is irrelevant. Ross' job is to find our gamebreakers and set a standard of training and tactics to build around those guys.

It's about building the team for the long term.

 

[Jetafl]

I'm not David King's biggest fan

Me either but I have him a good rung or two above Kane Cornes.

 

[bergholt]

Most young players drafted don't survive.

Exactly! Which is why you have to keep a steady flow of them coming in so that you have a chance to get some very good ones.

All of the 2019 picks were late.

That's exactly my point, having only late picks is a choice that the list management team makes.

You know 2020 was an odd, year, its not clear who else we would have drafted. No Bont there.

Yeah not many stars from that draft yet. The obvious ones we missed were some Sandy boys in Jake Bowey, Max Holmes, Jacob Edwards, maybe Archie Perkins if we'd wanted to trade up. Then others who've shown a bit like Jai Newcombe, Sam Berry, Corey Durdin, Lachie McNeil, McCreery, Ginnivan.

My point isn't that we could have done a lot better in that particular draft necessarily, it's that by choosing to take a small number of picks then we're practically guaranteed to miss out on getting any good players of that age, which leaves a hole in the list that we'll probably need to fill later.

Its pretty pessimistic to suggest that all of Bytel, Byrnes , Connolly, and Heath will not make it.

Oh yeah totally, but also none of them look likely to make it at this point. Again adding to my point about having a hole in the list.

 

[L_W_P]

Me either but I have him a good rung or two above Kane Cornes.

Kane is very clearly from the Kevin Bartlett "talk shit to stir people up" school of radio.

I doubt he really believes half the things he says.

 

[bergholt]

Of course we overpaid for Hill - we aren't a destination club so we have to overpay in $'s or trade picks. It was proven again this year with De Goey.

Yep but from a strategy point of view those two things are very different - overpaying in $ or picks.

Overpaying in $ means not much because the salary cap has a minimum and you have to pay someone. I don't think Hill's big contract is a huge issue except that it's something the media and supporters can fixate on.

But overpaying in picks means that your decision really badly needs to be right, because of the opportunity cost of each of those picks. As I was outlining above, overpaying for Hill in picks meant that not only did we get a guy who didn't turn out to be as good as we hoped, but also we lost a bunch of chances of getting good young players.

We should totally throw the kitchen sink at every free agent. But spending good draft picks on experienced B+-graders is much more risky and has generally proven to be a bad idea.

 

[Jetafl]

Interesting that Ross's bio says Former AFL coach.

 

[Dr Spaceman]

Interesting that Ross's bio says Former AFL coach.

Well those 2 tweets suggest he's not overly active on Twitter.

I'm sure he'll get around to updating his profile.


One day.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

Not for nothing, but Rance and Rioli retired early, Dangerfield went home, Darling told non-WA teams not to draft him, and Fyfe would have been a flight risk too.

The one that jumps out there is Jack Riewoldt.

You really can't look at it that way though.
McEvoy turned into an early retiring Billy Longer.
Dangerfield may not have gone home if he only lived a drive away from his family.
If they sook up and want home, a good list manager gets something good back. Did the Cats lose out on Tim Kelly?

 

[stavro#4]

Interesting that Ross's bio says Former AFL coach.

Are you stupid?

There is multiple years between his most recent tweets. He clearly barely uses Twitter

 

[Diehard Saint]

Interesting that Ross's bio says Former AFL coach.

He’s too busy settling in at RSEA to worry about a Twitter bio.

Are you lost?
SA is

 

[lewdogs]

I think the ten years practically in the wilderness have made us appreciate Ross more. Honestly when he left I was so used to success that I just felt it would be around the corner again.

This last decade have made me appreciate the likes of Ross and Harves and just how hard it is to drag the club to the virge of greatness.

That's why I think we are so excited by having him back with Harves and Lenny. They are people that understand what it takes for St Kilda to get (almost) there.

 

[George]

Interesting that Ross's bio says Former AFL coach.

Interesting indeed. Perhaps the last few days have just been a figment of our imagination

Obviously we are being coached by a holographic image of Ross Lyon.

Looking forward to more bombshell revelations in the coming days, thanks for opening our eyes xoxo

 

[Sun Ra]

Interesting indeed. Perhaps the last few days have just been a figment of our imagination

Looking forward to more bombshell revelations in the coming days, thanks for opening our eyes xoxo

We have all been drugged, via the water supply man. This never happened. Ratts is still our coach FMD !
Not sure why more people haven't woken up to this. It's all over the ReAwaken posts on the net. Pretty
sure Dan Andrews is involved in this somehow.

 

[puppy_dog7]

Richo landed Ben Long by being overly involved.

Just leave the drafting to the recruiters.

And coaches should focus on coaching.

Richo also wanted Petracca though and we went McCartin cos of Trout.