I think TOB needs to be competing for Gunston's spot (third forward), not against Mitch Lewis (CHF). Unfortunately in that case he's well behind - but his fate is in his hands.
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100% correct. Just a weird comment by ole mate TurlyThey are literally opinions.
This is a forum where people share their opinions.
Or should we all post 'In my opinion' at the start of every sentence, just so it's clear for everyone? Give over.
Let's actually look at this in more detail.
TOB has had several seasons to show that he's got it. He will be 26 by the time games resume, and 27 next season.
Most players are well and truly into their prime by this stage of their careers - granted KPP's take a little longer than most, but even renowned late blooming KPP's have already hit their stride and have been consistent performers by this stage - e.g. Hawkins was 23 when he came into his own and kicked 62 goals.
TOB had five good games at the end of last year (kicking 12 goals and averaging 4.4 marks) and if people are going to hang their hat on those five games (out of his 62 games), then it's fair to point out that we expect more than 8 touches, 1 mark and 1 goal from one of our two key forwards. Especially when it's part of the reason why Gunston is relegated to the backline and Lewis to the stands.
Lewis, in his third season at 20/21 years of age, averaged 4.7 marks per game - more than TOB has in his best five game spell of his career.
If we cherry pick Lewis's best five games of last season to hang our hats on, then he's averaging 4.6 marks and he kicked 13 goals. Now keep in mind he's got four and a half more years of development ahead of him before he's in TOB's position.
As for your player comparison - one of these players is renowned for being "almost" Tim. The amount of times I've read on here, "when he starts clunking them..." and words to that effect is mind boggling. We've had years of it. The percentage of marks he takes compared to the amount of times he flies for one is stark (based on the eye test, so feel free to prove me wrong).
Lewis doesn't seem to have that issue and can clunk them, and he's also 2m tall, making him a harder matchup in the air.
TOB was average at the very best in the backline, and outright punished most times. Simply because he has played there doesn't mean he's versatile. I'm sure we could stick Lewis there and then claim he's versatile too. As for ruck - who would you rather, the ruck/forward junior who is at a ruckman's height, or the other guy that's 193cm?
Set shot comparison based on last year:
TOB is 12/9
Lewis is 20/15
You need more context to those stats to make a claim either way, but on face value they are the exact same there.
TOB is a nice field kick so I don't have an issue with that aspect of his game.
Now I do think he deserves another chance after his last five games last season, but that chance will be short lived if he serves up another 4 kick, 1 mark and 1 goal game - especially with Lewis and Scrimshaw in the stands and Gunston everywhere but the forward line.
Happy with your opinion even though I dont agree with it.Mitch was a top 5 contested mark in the league % wise last season, where was Tim? What about average goals?
I take Mitch everyday of the week and yesterday over Tim, that’s just where I sit. 5 years younger, bigger, better contested mark and higher ceiling.
They're not playing for the same position so, nice analysis but not at all needed.
Happy with your opinion even though I dont agree with it.
Maybe when you deliver that opinion about Lewis you can refrain from puting down TOB at the same time.
It can be done because even though I dont rate Lewis anywhere near as much as you do, I would never put shit on the guy.
As I said when TOB had a fantastic 5 weeks last year I never read a word of praise from you about it. If Lewis had produced that sort of form you would have proclaimed him as the next "Carey".
So I did not read a word of praise about TOB last year even though most on here were wrapt at the footy he was playing.
Yet after one game this year you go with "TOB was quiet"
Do I think Lewis can turn into the player you think he can be, no I dont.
Do I want him to become that player, you bet I do.
I guess my main point is maybe when Lewis has a quiet game you highlight that in the same way you highlight it, when TOB has a quiet one.
Or maybe just be a little even handed when discussing both players.
A very good post.At the end of the day I think this is the WORST time to drop O'Brien. Lewis is NOT as fit and prepared as last year due to interrupted surgery and other minor injuries. Remember last year he sacrificed a lot of his holiday time to train, which was a terrific attitude. Based on the praccy games you could see he wasn't ready. I reckon let's wait until he is flying at training before we rush him back. We need Lewis to also provide improved defensive pressure which helps if you're 100% fit. Either way it's great to have competition for spots.
Happy with your opinion even though I dont agree with it.
Maybe when you deliver that opinion about Lewis you can refrain from puting down TOB at the same time.
It can be done because even though I dont rate Lewis anywhere near as much as you do, I would never put shit on the guy.
As I said when TOB had a fantastic 5 weeks last year I never read a word of praise from you about it. If Lewis had produced that sort of form you would have proclaimed him as the next "Carey".
So I did not read a word of praise about TOB last year even though most on here were wrapt at the footy he was playing.
Yet after one game this year you go with "TOB was quiet"
Do I think Lewis can turn into the player you think he can be, no I dont.
Do I want him to become that player, you bet I do.
I guess my main point is maybe when Lewis has a quiet game you highlight that in the same way you highlight it, when TOB has a quiet one.
Or maybe just be a little even handed when discussing both players.
Yep. I have to agree with your comments. Except I do have a lot of hope Lewis will become a weapon as he develops. But hey, he's not there yet and needs time to work on various aspects of his game, especially when the ball hits the deck plus defensively. Like Clarko recently said in his press conference... The defensive side of today's game has become number one in importance. This is how turnovers are created and many goals kicked.....Happy with your opinion even though I dont agree with it.
Maybe when you deliver that opinion about Lewis you can refrain from puting down TOB at the same time.
It can be done because even though I dont rate Lewis anywhere near as much as you do, I would never put shit on the guy.
As I said when TOB had a fantastic 5 weeks last year I never read a word of praise from you about it. If Lewis had produced that sort of form you would have proclaimed him as the next "Carey".
So I did not read a word of praise about TOB last year even though most on here were wrapt at the footy he was playing.
Yet after one game this year you go with "TOB was quiet"
Do I think Lewis can turn into the player you think he can be, no I dont.
Do I want him to become that player, you bet I do.
I guess my main point is maybe when Lewis has a quiet game you highlight that in the same way you highlight it, when TOB has a quiet one.
Or maybe just be a little even handed when discussing both players.
Wow... Over the top dude. You forget that we drafted O'Brien with stick arms and legs. You can see that his body has taken a lot of time to fill out, unlike say, Xavier Ellis, whose body wouldn't... Even though Ellis was clearly talented. To suggest we'd be laughing at O'Brien if he played for another side, is a SUPER sledge. Why don't you go and tell some of his teammates your thoughts... They'll quickly tell you what they think of O'Brien... And YOU. But yeah, you're entitled to your opinion.Lewis is 21. He's got over 4 years to get to O'Brien's stage.
You'd all be laughing if O'Brien was playing for any other team and you all read their supporters posting about him like you do in here. How do you all feel about Gary Rohan for example?
Happy with your opinion even though I dont agree with it.
Maybe when you deliver that opinion about Lewis you can refrain from puting down TOB at the same time.
It can be done because even though I dont rate Lewis anywhere near as much as you do, I would never put shit on the guy.
As I said when TOB had a fantastic 5 weeks last year I never read a word of praise from you about it. If Lewis had produced that sort of form you would have proclaimed him as the next "Carey".
So I did not read a word of praise about TOB last year even though most on here were wrapt at the footy he was playing.
Yet after one game this year you go with "TOB was quiet"
Do I think Lewis can turn into the player you think he can be, no I dont.
Do I want him to become that player, you bet I do.
I guess my main point is maybe when Lewis has a quiet game you highlight that in the same way you highlight it, when TOB has a quiet one.
Or maybe just be a little even handed when discussing both players.
Yep, short-term fitness wise, TOB for sure. Bigger picture thinking, Mitch is infinitely the greater prospect for a tall forward role.At the end of the day I think this is the WORST time to drop O'Brien. Lewis is NOT as fit and prepared as last year due to interrupted surgery and other minor injuries. Remember last year he sacrificed a lot of his holiday time to train, which was a terrific attitude. Based on the praccy games you could see he wasn't ready. I reckon let's wait until he is flying at training before we rush him back. We need Lewis to also provide improved defensive pressure which helps if you're 100% fit. Either way it's great to have competition for spots.
Wow... Over the top dude. You forget that we drafted O'Brien with stick arms and legs. You can see that his body has taken a lot of time to fill out, unlike say, Xavier Ellis, whose body wouldn't... Even though Ellis was clearly talented. To suggest we'd be laughing at O'Brien if he played for another side, is a SUPER sledge. Why don't you go and tell some of his teammates your thoughts... They'll quickly tell you what they think of O'Brien... And YOU. But yeah, you're entitled to your opinion.
Round 2 is months awayAt the end of the day I think this is the WORST time to drop O'Brien. Lewis is NOT as fit and prepared as last year due to interrupted surgery and other minor injuries. Remember last year he sacrificed a lot of his holiday time to train, which was a terrific attitude. Based on the praccy games you could see he wasn't ready. I reckon let's wait until he is flying at training before we rush him back. We need Lewis to also provide improved defensive pressure which helps if you're 100% fit. Either way it's great to have competition for spots.
Weird comment??100% correct. Just a weird comment by ole mate Turly
Weird comment??
Stratts WILL have 5 kicked on him.
Stratts WILL get torn to shreds.
You’re either blind or require further education in English.
They were definitely not stated as opinions
If it’s an opinion then just say IMO or I think or I believe?Essentially everything posted here is a opinion.
It's your opinion that those posts were posted as a fact. In the posters opinions Stratton was going to have 5 goals kicked on him.
Ellis is 120kg now. Good paddock.Wow... Over the top dude. You forget that we drafted O'Brien with stick arms and legs. You can see that his body has taken a lot of time to fill out, unlike say, Xavier Ellis, whose body wouldn't... Even though Ellis was clearly talented. To suggest we'd be laughing at O'Brien if he played for another side, is a SUPER sledge. Why don't you go and tell some of his teammates your thoughts... They'll quickly tell you what they think of O'Brien... And YOU. But yeah, you're entitled to your opinion.
It's also not hard to understand context. We're talking future tense and clearly no-one here is actually Nostradamus so the reasonable assumption would be that they're giving an opinion. How can you state something as a fact that hasn't happened yet?If it’s an opinion then just say IMO or I think or I believe?
Not that hard is it?
The biggest issue is tone and context don't come across in text the way they do in conversation.It's also not hard to understand context. We're talking future tense and clearly no-one here is actually Nostradamus so the reasonable assumption would be that they're giving an opinion. How can you state something as a fact that hasn't happened yet?
If it’s an opinion then just say IMO or I think or I believe?
Not that hard is it?
The bigger problem is how the tone can be intepreted based on what you writeIt's not hard, but it literally doesn't need to be said.
It's even easier to understand that essentially every post is an opinion and doesn't need IMO to preface it. As Gralin has pointed out the real issue is the tone of the posts.
Agree with all of this.The biggest issue is tone and context don't come across in text the way they do in conversation.
If people want to be able to have good discussions about football they need to be able to communicate with each other.
We've got a lot of posters that either don't think anything negative they say should be challenged or don't think anything positive is rational or realistic.
We've also got a lot of posters who think negative comments are insults, and that is as much about how it is being read as how it has been written.
If you're writing something critical that you take the time to explain it's very different to just making a statement. Same if you are saying something positive about someones game. We see a lot more good discussion I think when posters take the time to explain their views, it gives those with opposing views something to discuss, points to base rebuttals on etc
We have a lot of posts on here that aren't designed to allow discussion on what is posted. They are written as statements. Player x sucks, player y is awesome.
You've got no context for the view and it's just the equivalent of a bunch of people in a room shouting out their opinions all at the same time and calling it discussion.
We've gotten pretty lazy when it comes to reading and writing with social media. People are used to just posting one liners, we aren't sitting at a table as a group talking where a sentence here or there works especially with body language and tone helping the listeners understand.
Plenty of people act like Nostradamus on here too, guessing whats going to happen is a big part of the discussions on this board.