Autopsy Round 1, 2023: Bombers beat the Hawks

[Gohawthorn13]

Just not enough blue chippers. A lot of us, me included overate our own. Fact is we haven’t had access to the top end of the draft yet. We need a few years picking top 3. Majority of our players are just limited. Lots of late picks and mid season pick ups. Just not gonna cut it. We stripped back a list that finished consecutive years in bottom 6. The pain starts now. We need to play DGB, Scrim, Butlers over Impey, Frost, Kosi etc. they’re just battlers. Kosi should prob have a chance at playing key back again to save his career, cos as a fwd it’s painful to watch.

That myth we don’t have top end talent is rubbish. We had more than enough to be competitive with today. The effort defensively was atrocious and 0 defensive pressure. If you put our team on paper against theirs it’s not much different. They have a lot of rookie players and recruits from other clubs that looked like world beaters today. If Sam doesn’t put the energy into defending that’s necessary he won’t last long. Impey and frost aren’t battlers they are solid players. I agree scrimshaw and DGB should be playing as well as brockman. I’m starting to get concerned Mitch isn’t up to the job. He has one job this season don’t finish bottom but they way the club acts like it’s a forgone conclusion and using youth as an excuse when you could of kept omeara and Mitchell instead of giving them away.

 

[TheFourPillars]

I wouldnt be throwing the baby out with the bath water just yet hawthorn fans we r better than what we showed today. In football there is an immortal saying until u hit finals and that is there is always next week. A chance to redeem ourselves. A chance to regain the faith. Hopefully Morrison is back

 

[Gohawthorn13]

Being on level 4 I noticed multiple times where the switch was on with spares and we just didn't pull the trigger. Players constantly taking the safe option by kicking down the line to a contest. We look best when we switch and then change the angle back into the middle.

A bit of defensive pressure would of been nice.

 

[bigmaxi]

Like Captain Sis’ said. It’s not how they want to play, lick you wounds move on. First quarter great to watch , my pie was super hot and they serve Asahi beer in chilled glass pints.
Always take the little wins, ride the bumps with a grin

 

[Gut Runner]

Probably take a few weeks to tell if I was locked in a Hawthorn bubble all summer and thought we would surprise with a fair few wins.

Right now it sure feels like it.

 

[NineteenSixtyNine]

What a dumpster fire! There basically has been 5 years of this and we are rock bottom, can only improve from here as we are a disorganised rabble at the moment. We desperately need a number 1 draft pick and we are on track to get one this season!

 

[H00t]

We had these sort of games last year where we couldn’t win any contests and the game just snowballed from there.

It’s not that we are just losing them, it’s that the opposition wins the ball and gets good clean looks forward.

We are going to rely so much on Worps and Duke with assistance from Nash and Finn as bigger bodies to win contests.

Frenchie, Cmac, Day and Ward all have class but don’t quite have the contested side to their games yet and will rely more on those above to get the ball to them.

We saw this happen against the pies and we played well. Couldn’t do it after the first quarter today.

 

[Coach Killer]

What an absolute shambles to start the season. I haven't looked at other posts so not sure if I'm rehashing the same thoughts as others but it's going to be a long year.

. Has Newcombe dropped weight? Has putting pushed off the ball by Parish and if he's not out muscling the opposition then he really has no upside tbh

. I know the delivery was poor but Kosi looked timid/non commanding and Fergus Greene looked unsurprisingly VFL standard. I know Mitch Lewis is out for a month and until then I can't see where goals will come from

.Wingard can piss off. Even at his Hawthorn best has been a shadow of his Port says.

.Sam Frost is just an average player with shocking decision making. With age not on his side surely we just get rid of him once his contract is up.

. Reeves and Meek too similar. Can get a tap but really don't offer much if anything else.

. For all the hype of pre season, Worpel looks like the same slow mid with poor disposal. Absolute 0 poise.

. Amon had a bit of class but didn't get enough of it.

. Really liked the look of McKenzie. Clean hands and good disposal. In a few years should be a very good player.

. I don't mind Blanck as a rookie pick but if Weidermann and Jones are making our key backs look like chumps then I don't hold much hope against the true gun key forwards like McKay and Curnow.

. Jiath got a pass and actually took the game on.

. Sicily didn't look anything like a captain. Played average and wasn't able to keep his head. Not good enough from maybe the one A grader we have

The most scary thing is that apart from Lewis we pretty much had a full team. Morrison is ok but dime a dozen and DGB is average. On the plus side I hear Harley Reid goes ok....

Sydney in Sydney next week huh?

Might need a bottle of Captain Morgan to get through that one me thinks

The game was won and lost in the coaches box.

One team had a clear idea of how they wanted to play with a simple game plan, and they know how to defend the ground - the other is completely rudderless and are clueless at defending anything.

One team had 4 months to prepare with a new coach.

The other has had 2 plus years to figure out a game plan and is still clueless.

Don’t blame the players. The coaches box is inept and woeful. A complete clean out is required at years end starting with Mitchell - he is clueless.

10+ goal smashings will be expected each and every week and when that happens maybe the board will take action and appoint a coach next year based on merit not one on training wheels. Of course the punters and coaching group will defer to their standard dribble - the youngsters will take time? What youngsters ? They were terrific, the opposition had just as many.

Sam’s BS may fly with some on here but when you’re getting pumped by 10 goals with basically a full list to pick from by a club that has a worse list than you and has had less time to prepare there’s nowhere to hide.

The finger needs to be pointed at the senior coach and his incompetent clueless mob - not the players. Our game plan is not woeful, it’s non existent.

 

[almuz]

Far out, Draper is a flog considering he’s just a decent ruckman

 

[Hawksboy72]

Yep - 6 pages in and everyone bar you is ignoring the giant elephant in the room. Chad Wingards body is simply not fit for AFL. I’ve been banging on about this ever since we brought him in. Today he couldn’t even get through the first friggin game of the season without the standard soft tissue injury. Clarkos shocking insistence of bringing in Wingard at any cost still haunts us to this day. Won’t be here in 24.

Yes...I will simply never fully understand that trade.

 

[VandoHawk]

The game was won and lost in the coaches box.

One team had a clear idea of how they wanted to play with a simple game plan, and they know how to defend the ground - the other is completely rudderless and are clueless at defending anything.

One team had 4 months to prepare with a new coach.

The other has had 2 plus years to figure out a game plan and is still clueless.

Don’t blame the players. The coaches box is inept and woeful. A complete clean out is required at years end starting with Mitchell - he is clueless.

10+ goal smashings will be expected each and every week and when that happens maybe the board will take action and appoint a coach next year based on merit not one on training wheels. Of course the punters and coaching group will defer to their standard dribble - the youngsters will take time? What youngsters ? They were terrific, the opposition had just as many.

Sam’s BS may fly with some on here but when you’re getting pumped by 10 goals with basically a full list to pick from by a club that has a worse list than you and has had less time to prepare there’s nowhere to hide.

The finger needs to be pointed at the senior coach and his incompetent clueless mob - not the players. Our game plan is not woeful, it’s non existent.

This is some sort of melt

 

[hawkhamlet]

CJ - Are we getting the best out of Him? Is HBF really his best position? And should we expect better from him with a handful of howlers almost every week?

He gives an easy goal to the opposition in every game. Just hands them one.

As for Kosi, the biggest thing he needed to work on over summer was his marking. He drops far too many. He continued that today. I'm almost done with him.

 

[A Diakos]

The game was won and lost in the coaches box.

One team had a clear idea of how they wanted to play with a simple game plan, and they know how to defend the ground - the other is completely rudderless and are clueless at defending anything.

One team had 4 months to prepare with a new coach.

The other has had 2 plus years to figure out a game plan and is still clueless.

Don’t blame the players. The coaches box is inept and woeful. A complete clean out is required at years end starting with Mitchell - he is clueless.

10+ goal smashings will be expected each and every week and when that happens maybe the board will take action and appoint a coach next year based on merit not one on training wheels. Of course the punters and coaching group will defer to their standard dribble - the youngsters will take time? What youngsters ? They were terrific, the opposition had just as many.

Sam’s BS may fly with some on here but when you’re getting pumped by 10 goals with basically a full list to pick from by a club that has a worse list than you and has had less time to prepare there’s nowhere to hide.

The finger needs to be pointed at the senior coach and his incompetent clueless mob - not the players. Our game plan is not woeful, it’s non existent.

Interesting take

I don’t necessarily agree with it but I like the fact that you voice a view

 

[SA HAWK]

The game was won and lost in the coaches box.

One team had a clear idea of how they wanted to play with a simple game plan, and they know how to defend the ground - the other is completely rudderless and are clueless at defending anything.

One team had 4 months to prepare with a new coach.

The other has had 2 plus years to figure out a game plan and is still clueless.

Don’t blame the players. The coaches box is inept and woeful. A complete clean out is required at years end starting with Mitchell - he is clueless.

10+ goal smashings will be expected each and every week and when that happens maybe the board will take action and appoint a coach next year based on merit not one on training wheels. Of course the punters and coaching group will defer to their standard dribble - the youngsters will take time? What youngsters ? They were terrific, the opposition had just as many.

Sam’s BS may fly with some on here but when you’re getting pumped by 10 goals with basically a full list to pick from by a club that has a worse list than you and has had less time to prepare there’s nowhere to hide.

The finger needs to be pointed at the senior coach and his incompetent clueless mob - not the players. Our game plan is not woeful, it’s non existent.

Essendon has a better list than us at the moment for starters they played finals 2 years ago don’t forget the wheels fell off last year.

I think we overachieved last year we beat Geelong, Brisbane & Port you can’t tell me we were better than those sides.

Today was very disappointing but i think Mitch has done a great job so far.

Judge him at the end of next year and see where we are at.

 

[almuz]

Didn’t seem like we were working very hard either to transition outta D50 or stop their transition - they were moving it way too easily out of their backline

That’s mostly an effort issue which is fixable at least

Wish we made an adjustment with our forward entries rather than just kicking it directly to a 2v1 or better yet straight on the chest of a * defender

 

[Simon Crawshay]

Yes...I will simply never fully understand that trade.

Wingard reminds me a bit of an over the hill AFL player who has been recruited by a country league team on big bucks.

But although he still has the skills his body is buggered and although he shows flashes of his old talent (like that goal he kicked today) he breaks down most matches with an old man’s injury (soft tissue).

I could have almost written the script for Chads performance today.

- a few petulant moments

• a brief flash of his old brilliance
• followed by yet another soft tissue injury

I might be being harsh on Chad but tell me who here isn’t a bit sick of this happening every bloody year?

 

[SA HAWK]

Wingard reminds me a bit of an over the hill AFL player who has been recruited by a country league team on big bucks.

But although he still has the skills his body is buggered and although he shows flashes of his old talent (like that goal he kicked today) he breaks down most matches with an old man’s injury (soft tissue).

I could have almost written the script for Chads performance today.

- a few petulant moments

• a brief flash of his old brilliance
• followed by yet another soft tissue injury

I might be being harsh on Chad but tell me who here isn’t a bit sick of this happening every bloody year?

I would give that trade 3 out of 10.

Another Clarko masterpiece.

 

[Coach Killer]

Essendon has a better list than us at the moment for starters they played finals 2 years ago don’t forget the wheels fell off last year.

I think we overachieved last year we beat Geelong, Brisbane & Port you can’t tell me we were better than those sides.

Today was very disappointing but i think Mitch has done a great job so far.

Judge him at the end of next year and see where we are at.

No probs.

St Kilda had 15 guys unavailable to play today and won.

Why? Because they know how to defend and they are well coached and have a system. They’ve had 5 months to prepare.

We are clueless. That’s a coaching issue not a player issue.

 

[Tuck In]

Watched it on TV earlier. Extremely disappointing but.nit completely unexpected.

A few points:

What was our defensive structure from q2 onwards? We seemed to be open everywhere all of the time and that's concerning

When we were on top at the end of q1, we need to be more efficient and ruthless with opportunities. I felt the 10 point quarter time lead should have been nearer 20.

We butchered the ball alot, we fumbled a lot and again the loopy handpass to a man under pressure reappeared. Hopi g this was first day at new school stuff as they are things that we can fix on the training ground.

From q2 onwards we appeared to have a player less than them everywhere whenever they went forward. Players need to be accountable for their man and the space. Coach needed to be more proactive here.

Not finger pointing any players as they will know they were poor but it going to be a tough season.

 

[SA HAWK]

No probs.

St Kilda had 15 guys unavailable to play today and won.

Why? Because they know how to defend and they are well coached and have a system. They’ve had 5 months to prepare.

We are clueless. That’s a coaching issue not a player issue.

Freo’s forwardline is diabolical.

Big slide for them this year i reckon.

 

[Topiary]

I’m not using it as a cop out as much as I’m contextualising what I saw.

The good I saw was a lot of our midfielders connecting and brealing from the centre stoppages. The poor was the efforts to roll onto the next bomber palyer, to press up into space and push back to help the defense when the switch was continually on.

There’s accepting the loss and then there’s rationalizing it. I’m doing more of the latter.

The coach and footy dept gave us a very good and direct opportunity to understand that todays outcome could be something that was on the cards in the early part of 2023.

FGS, the effort was extremely poor. I am already tired of the ignorance or ignoring this aspect. We were playing a fellow bottom side FFS.

We have also heard that this Group was playing for each other and the Coach. Extraordinarily disappointing. I know they are young and inexperienced but basic application is what you expect.

I am not talking about structures and the like, just basic effort. We were abysmal.

 

[Judd2Sewell]

Far out, Draper is a flog considering he’s just a decent ruckman

What I'd give for one of those.

 

[Nash88]

Extremely disappointing overall performance. Some good signs throughout however nowhere near enough to be enthused about. Effort and defensive pressure are non negotiables and there were countless times today where they waltzed through the middle of the park or passed the ball coast to coast before seemingly entering their forward 50 with an opposition of cones - similar to a training drill.

Positives:
McKenzie - Will be a star. The game slows down around him, picked the right option every time and did not let the occasion over awe him.

Ward - impressive disposal and run and gun. Will continue to get better.

Breust - Timeless. Has been delivering the goods for over a decade and continues to do so. Great performance with very poor delivery. We cannot continue to depend on him up forward at the age of 32.

Negatives:
No defensive pressure anywhere on the ground as well as a lack of urgency. Premierships are won off defence and clearly we are a long way off. Need to see tighter marking and much more chasing and harassing moving forward.

In terms of individual players:
Changkuoth Jiath

9

Changkuoth Jiath

Age

25

Ht

185cm

Wt

78kg

Pos.

Def

Career

Season

Last 5

D

14.5

4star

K

5.0

2star

HB

9.5

5star

M

3.5

4star

T

2.5

4star

MG

91.0

1star

No current season stats available

D

14.5

4star

K

5.0

2star

HB

9.5

5star

M

3.5

4star

T

2.5

4star

MG

91.0

2star

- Not consistent enough. Flashy displays will not do the trick long term, needs to be better defensively and more accountable to an opponent and to stay focussed.

Lachie Bramble - Very impressed when he burst on to the scene a few years ago for the club but seems to have stagnated. Not
good enough for AFL in my opinion and Scrimshaw needs to take his place ASAP.

Sam Frost

8

Sam Frost

Age

31

Ht

194cm

Wt

94kg

Pos.

Def

Career

Season

Last 5

D

12.4

3star

K

7.1

3star

HB

5.2

4star

M

3.7

4star

T

1.9

4star

MG

191.6

3star

D

10.5

3star

K

6.3

3star

HB

4.3

3star

M

4.0

4star

T

1.5

2star

MG

191.6

3star

D

11.2

3star

K

6.0

3star

HB

5.2

4star

M

3.6

4star

T

1.4

4star

- Honest trier and hard worker however skill wise a complete liability.

Justin Koschitzke

Justin Koschitzke

Age

42

Ht

197cm

Wt

97kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

11.0

3star

K

6.9

3star

HB

4.1

3star

M

5.4

5star

T

1.6

4star

G

1.2

4star

No current season stats available

D

9.4

3star

K

5.2

2star

HB

4.2

4star

M

2.8

3star

T

0.2

3star

G

0.0

1star

- Really like Kosi ferociousness and attack on the football just does not seem to have the nous to be a key forward. Needs some more time but would be on notice big time.

Ned Reeves - Very very disappointing. Does not seem to use his height to his advantage and offers nothing around the ground not even a get out option down the line. We need to have a closer look at Max Lynch again.

Some of our dependable players in Newcombe and Moore were well down today however expect them to bounce back.

This will be a long season of that there is no doubt but we need to see improvements and some semblance of a game plan that involves a solid defensive foundation along our run and gun through the middle of the park.

 

[spotthedot]

Some really positive signs but ultimately our now seemingly engrained inability to play a full four quarters let us down. Still, lots of positives to take! McKenzie looked the goods on debut, Wingard's goal was delicious and Worpel was solid in the midfield

some really positive signs? i watched the wrong game...worpel tried hard all day mckenzie good...may i ask what are the 'lots' of postives to take...apart from the 3 you mentioned...i will give u 2 but 'lots'? our negative list is as long as your arm. so disappointing after the pies game. we were insipid.

 

[Judd2Sewell]

He gives an easy goal to the opposition in every game. Just hands them one.

As for Kosi, the biggest thing he needed to work on over summer was his marking. He drops far too many. He continued that today. I'm almost done with him.

I'd play him on the wing with Amon, where his athleticism would be best put to use. He can cover the ground and will burn players with his pace. His mistakes won't be costly either. Wing is his best position IMO and I'll die on this hill.