Autopsy Round 1, 2024: Hawks fail against Bombers

[HedgeFund]

McGrath trying to get Sicily cleared. Ignore everything I have ever said about him

This does not surprise me at all.

That's the kind of person Andrew McGrath is.

 

[TylerDurden]

Redman accepted his week.

 

[dermott]

This does not surprise me at all.

That's the kind of person Andrew McGrath is.

Exactly. I don’t understand the joy some get dropping shit on him. I am advised by some who know him personally that he is a top quality young man similar to Dylan Moore.
Time to grow up and give credit where it is due.

 

[Judd2Sewell]

Redman accepted his week.

There's no arguing that one. Stupid and accidentally obvious from Redman.

 

[Judd2Sewell]

Exactly. I don’t understand the joy some get dropping s**t on him. I am advised by some who know him personally that he is a top quality young man similar to Dylan Moore.
Time to grow up and give credit where it is due.

He's a good player, certainly not #1 worthy, but he's one of the best small defenders in the league. This crab thing took off and some people can't let it go, despite the fact he's has had many games like on the weekend that show he is anything but a crab.

 

[TassieGrown]

Reading through the first 10 pages, there are some simply astonishing takes. I gave up after that.

Ward & Mckenzie seemed to be singled out, yet to play 50 games. Unsure why the hate they show enough that they are AFL level.

The game lost due to poor conversion, centre clearances & not using Finn as a tagger.

Sicily, Lewis & Scrim were poor by their standards, yet we we won the majority of the key stats that win games.

Chill out some of you nuffies and enjoy the ride.

 

[kazzooka]

Probably could have left off 'not worth listening to'.

But he was the 'prototypical' footballer during his career. You'd hear it and read about it all the time.
The thing you didn't read about or hear about were his down patches. Avoided scrutiny his entire career because he was the bloke everyone wanted to have a beer with.

Jack Reiwoldt, by comparison, was never uttered in the same breath as the 'legendary' Jono Brown. He then quietly went and eclipsed the man's career.

Reiwoldt is criminally underrated or Brown is overrated. Take your pick.

Jack very underrated in my opinion. Undersized and still got the job done. Was very very good in his Grand Finals too, unlike his overrated cousin.

 

[HedgeFund]

He's a good player, certainly not #1 worthy, but he's one of the best small defenders in the league. This crab thing took off and some people can't let it go, despite the fact he's has had many games like on the weekend that show he is anything but a crab.

If he wore a Hawthorn jumper we would be praising his efforts week in / out.

 

[hawk for 37]

Reading through the first 10 pages, there are some simply astonishing takes. I gave up after that.

Ward & Mckenzie seemed to be singled out, yet to play 50 games. Unsure why the hate they show enough that they are AFL level.

The game lost due to poor conversion, centre clearances & not using Finn as a tagger.

Sicily, Lewis & Scrim were poor by their standards, yet we we won the majority of the key stats that win games.

Chill out some of you nuffies and enjoy the ride.

As one of those who posted about these two, you are describing people's 'hate'. That is just silly talk. No-one hates these guys here and wish them nothing but success.

Are people concerned about 2 top ten picks and their potential to make it into A - grade stars? Absolutely.

Top 10 midfield picks should be (hopefully) transformative players that we will build our next 10 years around. As a comparison, our boys are similar picks to Rozee higher picks than Butters.

I'm pretty sure that's who hoped we were drafting when we got our lick of the ice cream. The big question is, have we?

 

[SSSSSS]

If he wore a Hawthorn jumper we would be praising his efforts week in / out.

Eh I doubt it. He's a whipping boy on the Bombers board. I'd be spewing if we gave up pick #1 for him as well.

If he was a pick in the 30s and 40s? I wouldn't imagine he would get anywhere near the vitriol.

Was surprised to read some of the nuffies on their board didn't rate his game on the weekend.

 

[Big Hotdog]

Just want to clarify my take on Crab(post comments on impact from the Crab)

Crab is a highly desired, smooth and silky meat.

 

[Judd2Sewell]

As one of those who posted about these two, you are describing people's 'hate'. That is just silly talk. No-one hates these guys here and wish them nothing but success.

Are people concerned about 2 top ten picks and their potential to make it into A - grade stars? Absolutely.

Top 10 midfield picks should be (hopefully) transformative players that we will build our next 10 years around. As a comparison, our boys are similar picks to Rozee higher picks than Butters.

I'm pretty sure that's who hoped we were drafting when we got our lick of the ice cream. The big question is, have we?

Let's have some perspective:

It took Rozee until halfway through his 4th season to really "break out." He was 22 at the time. His real full breakout season was last year, and he was 23.

It took Butters until his 5th season to "break out." He was 22.

Bailey hasn't had his breakout season as yet, and may never make the move into the midfield full-time.

Perkins just had a breakout midfield game against us. This is his 4th season, and he is turning 22 in a few days.

Rowell is now starting his 5th season, and will be 23 shortly. Though I acknowledge injuries did play a part in hindering his development.

Brayshaw took until his 4th season to breakout. He was slightly younger than the others above, at 21.

It took Mundy until his 6th season to breakout as a midfielder.

It took Touk Miller (most underrated midfielder in the competition for years) until his 7th season.

Sam Flanders appears to be having a breakout season, though I think it really clicked during second half of last season, which was his 4th. He couldn't get a game prior to that.

Heeney looks like he's finally becoming the prince that was promised. This is his is 10th season.

It took Petracca until his 6th season, where he was 25 at the time. How long did it take GAJ, or Dusty to reach their full potential?

Now it's certainly unfair to compare anyone to the likes of GAJ, Petracca or Dusty, given their rare physical gifts and skills. But my point is to highlight the timeframes.

Day and Newcombe are both 22.

MacDonald is 21. Ward is 20, and won't be 21 until the end of the year. Mackenzie just turned 20. They are third and second year players.

 

[Sixpence]

Let's have some perspective:

It took Rozee into halfway through his 4th season to really "break out." He was 22 at the time. His real full breakout season was last year, and he was 23.

It took Butters until his 5th season to "break out." He was 22.

Bailey hasn't had his breakout season as yet, and may never make the move into the midfield full-time.

Perkins just had a breakout midfield game against us. This is his 4th season, and he is turning 22 in a few days.

Rowell is now starting his 5th season, and will be 23 shortly. Though I acknowledge injuries did play a part in hindering his development.

Brayshaw until his 4th season to breakout. He was slightly younger than the others above, at 21.

It took Mundy until his 6th season to breakout as a midfielder.

It took Petracca until his 6th season, where he was 25 at the time. How long did it take GAJ, or Dusty to reach their full potential?

Now it's certainly unfair to compare anyone to the likes of GAJ, Petracca or Dusty, given their rare physical gifts and skills. But my point is to highlight the timeframes.

Day and Newcombe are both 22.

MacDonald is 21. Ward is 20, and won't be 21 until the end of the year. Mackenzie just turned 20. They are third and second year players.

This. Just to add to it, pretty all of those players didn't break out until hitting 70-80 games. Day and Newcombe are well on track.

People writing off Ward and Mackenzie who both have less than 35 is extremely premature!

 

[Judd2Sewell]

This. Just to add to it, pretty all of those players didn't break out until hitting 70-80 games. Day and Newcombe are well on track.

People writing off Ward and Mackenzie who both have less than 35 is extremely premature!

Guys like Tom Green, Anderson, Gulden, Daicos, Sheezel, Serong, etc. are exceptions to the rule.

I think they have created some unrealistic expectations for other draftees.

Heeney and Flanders are two more, which I'll add to my post above.

 

[Sixpence]

Guys like Tom Green, Anderson, Gulden, Serong, etc. are exceptions to the rule.

I think they have created some unrealistic expectations for other draftees.

Heeney and Flanders are two more, which I'll add to my post above.

Gulden and Daicos are the 2 main exceptions.

Green is ~70 games, Anderson ~80, Serong ~80. All probably took at least 50-60 to really standout. Slightly better than the others you mentioned but still not instant hits. I think Day and Newcombe are travelling on par with this group.

It's also worth noting they all have partners to feed off - Anderson/Rowell, Serong/Brayshaw, Green/Kelly/Cogs/etc., Rozee/Butters, Petracca/Oliver. Newcombe struggled without Day, really need him back for both of them to excel.

 

[Judd2Sewell]

In what I can only coin as post nuff clarity, I feel a bit better about the loss now.

 

[Sixpence]

Just noticed Gulden is near ~70 games. That's far more than I thought!

 

[Mercy Seat]

As one of those who posted about these two, you are describing people's 'hate'. That is just silly talk. No-one hates these guys here and wish them nothing but success.

Are people concerned about 2 top ten picks and their potential to make it into A - grade stars? Absolutely.

Top 10 midfield picks should be (hopefully) transformative players that we will build our next 10 years around. As a comparison, our boys are similar picks to Rozee higher picks than Butters.

I'm pretty sure that's who hoped we were drafting when we got our lick of the ice cream. The big question is, have we?

I remember people were concerned about Luke Hodge in his early years. Seeing Chris Judd and even Luke Ball in those first few seasons had a few Hawks supporters feeling like we'd picked the worst of the 3, and potentially not even an elite player. How wrong they were.

Some players take more time, and I think we've seen enough, particularly from Ward, to feel pretty confident in what we have.

 

[TassieGrown]

As one of those who posted about these two, you are describing people's 'hate'. That is just silly talk. No-one hates these guys here and wish them nothing but success.

Are people concerned about 2 top ten picks and their potential to make it into A - grade stars? Absolutely.

Top 10 midfield picks should be (hopefully) transformative players that we will build our next 10 years around. As a comparison, our boys are similar picks to Rozee higher picks than Butters.

I'm pretty sure that's who hoped we were drafting when we got our lick of the ice cream. The big question is, have we?

Hate is a strong word agree with you on this.

I would start to be concerned in 2 seasons if they haven't come along but at the moment they have played under 50 games and there seems to be an expectation that they should be A grade stars already.

Surely Rozee and Butters have been in the AFL system longer than Ward & Mackenzie, odd comparison. Doubtful these were tearing it up at a similar stage in their careers.

As i said earlier, we need to patient and hope we drafted correctly

 

[TheFourPillars]

I remember people were concerned about Luke Hodge in his early years. Seeing Chris Judd and even Luke Ball in those first few seasons had a few Hawks supporters feeling like we'd picked the worst of the 3, and potentially not even an elite player. How wrong they were.

Some players take more time, and I think we've seen enough, particularly from Ward, to feel pretty confident in what we have.

Deadset my old man was adamant we'd ****ed up

 

[number23]

I remember people were concerned about Luke Hodge in his early years. Seeing Chris Judd and even Luke Ball in those first few seasons had a few Hawks supporters feeling like we'd picked the worst of the 3, and potentially not even an elite player. How wrong they were.

Some players take more time, and I think we've seen enough, particularly from Ward, to feel pretty confident in what we have.

Didn't Hodge's late development cost John Turnbull his job? I certainly remember the heat that was on Turnbull after Judd won the Brownlow while Hodge was only showing glimpses of what he could be. I remember seeing Hodge's first game after his OP issues and being underwhelmed as he handballed so much since he was probably concerned over his OP. Fast forward and you have a guy who made the team around him better by giving direction and leading and picking up a couple of Norm Smiths. Judd had more impact on an individual basis but Hodge had more influence in terms of the team. And it's teams that win flags.

 

[Mitch75]

Whilst it’s about the long term development for these kids, it’s also about what they produced on the weekend. Frenchie seemed a bit soft, appeared to shirk a couple of contests. That’s what I saw at the ground.

 

[TylerDurden]

Whilst it’s about the long term development for these kids, it’s also about what they produced on the weekend. Frenchie seemed a bit soft, appeared to shirk a couple of contests. That’s what I saw at the ground.

He shirked one in the first qtr that cost us a goal. But he got better in the 2nd and 3rd quarters when we got on top. He's not a finished product yet, which is understandable.

 

[Topiary]

He shirked one in the first qtr that cost us a goal. But he got better in the 2nd and 3rd quarters when we got on top. He's not a finished product yet, which is understandable.

He should not be shirking anything.

 

[bindas12]

The thing that was very noticable for me on the ground was the mids looked like boys vs men. Our mids look very undersized. and on so many occasions, essendon players took on the tackler (sometimes more than 1), and then easily got the disposal away while being tackled. Maybe its a strength thing or an endeavour thing ? But if there was a stat for broken/ineffective tackles, I'd love to see where we rank.