Autopsy Round 10 2024 – GWS Giants vs Western Bulldogs, Saturday May 18, 4.35pm AEST, Engie Stadium

[Colonial]

I respect your opinions but disagree on this one. There are other threads including the GWS in Canberra thread and the 20th team location threads, so don’t want to hijack this post mortem of the game thread. Giants have continued to state that they are also Canberra’s AFL team, and that they have 2 home grounds.

Didn’t start that way. It’s a sponsorship deal and a way to get easy crowds and juniors.

Giants will have a 21 year relationship with Canberra (by far the longest involvement by any AFL club in Canberra) by the time this contract with the ACT Government expires in 2032, and this long term relationship has been good for the club and Canberra. I would think that this contract will be extended, unless the Giants sell out home games in Giants Stadium consistently/ Canberra gets a full time AFL team.

Then we will never win over Western Sydney and it’s just wasting everyone’s time.

 

[Colonial]

I only brought this up because people were discussing the crowd. I think this is a major issue with that.

 

[Adam Giant]

It’s hard to fathom how sharp and sudden this decline has been.

To go from undefeated to looking second rate in the space of a month is so disappointing and I’m not sure if and how we can turn it around. It’s not as though the Dogs are world beaters either.

Credit to Hogan who had a really good game but the rest looked lazy, slow, uninterested and generally awful.

 

[Del208273]

I guess one positive is keeping in mind that it took 12 and a half wins to make the finals last year.

We had 13 wins and finished 7th - probably a better reflection of where we stand this year as well - around 8th give or take a possie.

Having 6 wins in the bank means we are nearly half way there just before mid-season.

What remains: Geelong (A), Bye, Hawthorn (A), Port Adelaide (HH), Sydney (HH), Adelaide (A), Carlton (HH), Richmond (A), Gold Coast (HH), Melbourne (A), Hawthorn (HC), Brisbane (A), Fremantle (HH), Bulldogs (A)
(HH = Home Homebush, HC = Home Canberra)

IMO, we need at least 7 wins to gain a spot in the finals.

I'm struggling to find them.

 

[domologue]

I guess one positive is keeping in mind that it took 12 and a half wins to make the finals last year.

We had 13 wins and finished 7th - probably a better reflection of where we stand this year as well - around 8th give or take a possie.

Having 6 wins in the bank means we are nearly half way there just before mid-season.

What remains: Geelong (A), Bye, Hawthorn (A), Port Adelaide (HH), Sydney (HH), Adelaide (A), Carlton (HH), Richmond (A), Gold Coast (HH), Melbourne (A), Hawthorn (HC), Brisbane (A), Fremantle (HH), Bulldogs (A)
(HH = Home Homebush, HC = Home Canberra)

IMO, we need at least 7 wins to gain a spot in the finals.

I'm struggling to find them.

Yikes. Seeing the fixture list does not do good things for my confidence.

It’s a weird feeling… something clearly needs to shift… our talent is no different to last year (maybe that’s the problem) but the spirit/mindset is gone.

Our game against Collingwood was incredible in round 1. Hunting in packs, hungry, slick ball movement. But the west coast north double header we got slack/cocky.

But even so, this is the team that scrapped out so many wins last year… so what’s broken.

We clearly miss Lloyd’s 1-2 goals a week. We clearly miss Keefe’s big beefy body.


Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com

 

[taurus]

I think Western Sydney would attend more games especially earlier in the season when weather is good. The stadium isnt sheltered like other grounds. It keeps people like me away on a cold day, I admit I'm not a dedicated fan.

I actually think there is a charm to the Homebush ground, it's rare to walk around and check out the different vantage points. But to get to Homebush isn't fun, Lidcombe train station isn't the prettiest...

Canberra games are necessary given the Easter Show. But I do wonder if their third game can be played later in the season so the Giants would return home earlier before the weather turns.

I know that AFL is doing amazing work in Western Sydney at the junior level. AFL will never beat NRL in the heartland. If Giants can continue to chip away at the mindshare, a generation of fans of various dedication will be made.

The Swans were ugly ducklings in the 80s and 90s. Their struggles made me follow them. I genuinely think the Giants making the GF that early in their history was not beneficial from the narrative point.

Free tickets to schools or residents nearby? Subsidised ticketed membership - $500-700 in the stands is way too much considering three less games. A Parra Eels offer better seats and more games comparatively.

 

[sydney_gws]

I guess one positive is keeping in mind that it took 12 and a half wins to make the finals last year.

We had 13 wins and finished 7th - probably a better reflection of where we stand this year as well - around 8th give or take a possie.

Having 6 wins in the bank means we are nearly half way there just before mid-season.

What remains: Geelong (A), Bye, Hawthorn (A), Port Adelaide (HH), Sydney (HH), Adelaide (A), Carlton (HH), Richmond (A), Gold Coast (HH), Melbourne (A), Hawthorn (HC), Brisbane (A), Fremantle (HH), Bulldogs (A)
(HH = Home Homebush, HC = Home Canberra)

IMO, we need at least 7 wins to gain a spot in the finals.

I'm struggling to find them.

We just have to play better.
We need a good run from here with injuries.
Need to uncover another midfielder.
Maybe Ash? Unlikely but maybe.

 

[Del208273]

Out of curiosity, I had a look at the players in our final match against Collingwood in 2023 v those who didn't play yesterday:

Ash
Cumming
Kelly
(all injured)

Lloyd (retired)
Keeffe (2s)
Brown (suspended)

So effectively a quarter of the team has changed.

The only player who could have played yesterday is the same person many of us lauded last year for not so much his disposal count, but how he was an integral part of the structure. Someone who did his role without fanfare. Gave Briggs a break allowing the likes of Cadman, Riccardi and Himmelberg to essentially stick to their positions.

Kingsley could do worse than recalling Keeffe.

I already think Gruz should replace Riccardi, Peatling for an injured Jones.

Maybe Keeffe for Stone.

If this works next week and Cadman doesn't fire (again), Brown for Cadman when he returns from suspension.

 

[Adam Giant]

The only player who could have played yesterday is the same person many of us lauded last year for not so much his disposal count, but how he was an integral part of the structure.

We could do a lot worse at the moment. Keeffe had a very specific role last year but did it well. He’s such a big, strong man and his presence up forward required attention while allowing others to hit the scoreboard. That said I haven’t seen any of the VFL to know how he’s going this year.

 

[Andre the Giant]

Disappointing but predictable result given they have found some form and we have lost all of it.

A lot of our guys are playing without confidence, it’s not a massive switch to change but it means they are currently a step slow, fumbly and lacking decisiveness.

Every game is different but yesterday some key things happened with shocking calls leading to goals and also some heinous errors such as the Ward backwards gift.

It’s not insurmountable but some changes are required. My favourite player Finna is in a rut, it’s not that he’s not trying. It’s that he is trying too hard and making basic errors. I wouldn’t drop him even though he talked back to the coach which is a massive no no. I’d take some pressure off him and play him down back for his run, he can take pressure off Whitters and fill the gap of Ash.

I like X in the side as he adds energy. He’s not very smart and often acts first and thinks later but he tries very hard. I also would like Peatling back in as he’s courageous and lifts standards.

I’m sure if they are not playing Gruz yet it’s because he’s not ready. They don’t keep these guys in the twos for fun, Riccardi is enigmatic but he’s still a marking force and he takes attention away from Hogan. Cadman needs two or three years to strengthen and develop his craft.

Other than that and maybe some positional switching we don’t have any other real options and have to make do. Not time for panic stations but a reality check that we aren’t as good as we thought.

 

[PurpJuice]

It’s hard to fathom how sharp and sudden this decline has been.

To go from undefeated to looking second rate in the space of a month is so disappointing and I’m not sure if and how we can turn it around. It’s not as though the Dogs are world beaters either.

Credit to Hogan who had a really good game but the rest looked lazy, slow, uninterested and generally awful.

Had dogs kicked straight, they would’ve beaten anyone last night. They’re severely underrated, I wouldn’t beat yourself up.

 

[Colonial]

I think Western Sydney would attend more games especially earlier in the season when weather is good. The stadium isnt sheltered like other grounds. It keeps people like me away on a cold day, I admit I'm not a dedicated fan.

most suburban league grounds are worse.

I actually think there is a charm to the Homebush ground, it's rare to walk around and check out the different vantage points. But to get to Homebush isn't fun, Lidcombe train station isn't the prettiest...

Easiest stadium to get to. Public transport to the door.

Canberra games are necessary given the Easter Show. But I do wonder if their third game can be played later in the season so the Giants would return home earlier before the weather turns.

Disagree there are ways around it.

I know that AFL is doing amazing work in Western Sydney at the junior level. AFL will never beat NRL in the heartland. If Giants can continue to chip away at the mindshare, a generation of fans of various dedication will be made.

Cannot argue that, the grassroots and community staff work their butts off.

The Swans were ugly ducklings in the 80s and 90s. Their struggles made me follow them. I genuinely think the Giants making the GF that early in their history was not beneficial from the narrative point.

Swans are and were full time except for a small time.

Free tickets to schools or residents nearby? Subsidised ticketed membership - $500-700 in the stands is way too much considering three less games. A Parra Eels offer better seats and more games comparatively.

We have had free tickets handouts since day dot has done nothing.

 

[Adam Giant]

Had dogs kicked straight, they would’ve beaten anyone last night. They’re severely underrated, I wouldn’t beat yourself up.

They’re 5-5 and sitting right where they deserve to be actually. Suspect a better team would have taken care of them easily last night.

 

[Giant YoYo]

Easiest stadium to get to. Public transport to the door.

Yes, although people generally dislike going to Olympic Park. Many articles written about the lack of vibrancy there.

Few sports teams anchor themselves in Sydney Olympic Park even though the whole location is built for sports events.

Disagree there are ways around it.

Would be good to try some of those ways around it but I can't see it happening with the current arrangement locked in.

We have had free tickets handouts since day dot has done nothing.

The lack of consistency is something that's really apparent, from a lack of consistent games to the lack of consistent performance on field.

You'd want to strike while the iron is hot so to speak but with an 8 week break and then our next game not for another 4, even if you wanted to come back, it's a very long time between games at SOP.

People lose interest, especially if they're trying to learn the ropes for something new. We know people can be particularly fair-weather so unless we're consistently performing across all levels it ultimately comes back to hurt the fan growth. That fan growth is what you want to drive your loyal, rusted on fanbase that turns out in the lean years.

We have a couple of players out of contract this year, with the way we're going, if performance doesn't improve there will be some concerns held about re-signings.

 

[Giant YoYo]

I will assume this will be the lowest turnout game at Engie and did a calculation based on our post covid era (2023 onwards).

Numbers are up 3.2% on the lowest turnout game last year (Saints) game.

Would imagine numbers would've been higher had the weather not been so horrendous yesterday but we can only really go off numbers that attended.

 

[Giant Pete]

Interestingly, our vfl team looks just like our afl team in the way they are performing… shithouse.
I can’t help but feel this is more than a player effort thing. We can make a couple of changes, but that on it’s own will make no difference.

 

[taurus]

I'm stating the fact that Homebush isn't conducive for casual and curious fans to attend if the weather is crap. Suburban grounds in Sydney that play professional sports can be harder to get to but better drinking options before or after the game. Olympic Park is a dead zone for entertainment.

Curious about your idea to increase the attendance number.

A couple of posters mentioned about losing the dressing room which surprised me. I mean Kingsley has been in the job for less than two seasons. Surely he would not have lost the room?

 

[Giant YoYo]

A couple of posters mentioned about losing the dressing room which surprised me. I mean Kingsley has been in the job for less than two seasons. Surely he would not have lost the room?

Genuinely surprised if true.

The players spoke so highly of him, what could have caused that to have changed so quickly?

 

[BarryAglett]

Genuinely surprised if true.

The players spoke so highly of him, what could have caused that to have changed so quickly?

We had a nice run of wins while oppo coaches have been working us out. Then with a few injuries drop in effort and form it looks bad in a month.
Coaches need to find something else and build the group up again - but I don't think there's anything to say the players have issues with Kingers.

 

[Colonial]

I'm stating the fact that Homebush isn't conducive for casual and curious fans to attend if the weather is crap. Suburban grounds in Sydney that play professional sports can be harder to get to but better drinking options before or after the game. Olympic Park is a dead zone for entertainment.

That isn’t fact that’s opinion. Has pubs and cafes and restaurants.

Curious about your idea to increase the attendance number.

Who’s this aimed at? If me?
We have to be full time WS.
Also open up the board to have one member voted in by members and 1 as a representative of the grassroots clubs of WS.

A couple of posters mentioned about losing the dressing room which surprised me. I mean Kingsley has been in the job for less than two seasons. Surely he would not have lost the room?

Players are giving up. Seem not up to the fight.
Yeah it’s been quick but that’s what it looks like from the outside

 

[taurus]

That isn’t fact that’s opinion. Has pubs and cafes and restaurants.

Who’s this aimed at? If me?
We have to be full time WS.
Also open up the board to have one member voted in by members and 1 as a representative of the grassroots clubs of WS.

Players are giving up. Seem not up to the fight.
Yeah it’s been quick but that’s what it looks like from the outside

I think you are also expressing your opinion about the vibe of the Olympic Park. You feel the vibe isn't dead, I feel different about that. In fact, even NRL is moving away from the Homebush with suburban ground strategy.

How can it be full time WS when we have Easter show? Do you want the Giants to play in Blacktown during those period?

 

[Colonial]

I think you are also expressing your opinion about the vibe of the Olympic Park. You feel the vibe isn't dead, I feel different about that. In fact, even NRL is moving away from the Homebush with suburban ground strategy.

I didn’t write it as a fact so of course it’s my opinion.
lol NRL isn’t moving away because of some mythical be, some clubs are loving away because 10k in an 80k stadium is ridiculous.
The SOO, Grand Finals and other big games will still be played there.

How can it be full time WS when we have Easter show? Do you want the Giants to play in Blacktown during those period?

There are plenty of ways to do this.
Yes a lower drawing game at Blacktown would work, adding the away derby in Sydney at the same time would mean we aren’t out of Sydney for long at all.

Also maybe a double header event with the Swans at the SCG, not my preference but would also mean not being away for that Easter period of time.
Thats off the top of my head and there are smarter people than me at the club.

You have a Tassie emblem there I see.
Tell me, if Tassie, a parochial region already in love with the sport, needs a team, doesn’t a region just as parochial about themselves, who are new to the sport and the league wants to win over, deserve, or more importantly need, one too?

 

[sydney_gws]

Disappointing but predictable result given they have found some form and we have lost all of it.

A lot of our guys are playing without confidence, it’s not a massive switch to change but it means they are currently a step slow, fumbly and lacking decisiveness.

Every game is different but yesterday some key things happened with shocking calls leading to goals and also some heinous errors such as the Ward backwards gift.

It’s not insurmountable but some changes are required. My favourite player Finna is in a rut, it’s not that he’s not trying. It’s that he is trying too hard and making basic errors. I wouldn’t drop him even though he talked back to the coach which is a massive no no. I’d take some pressure off him and play him down back for his run, he can take pressure off Whitters and fill the gap of Ash.

I like X in the side as he adds energy. He’s not very smart and often acts first and thinks later but he tries very hard. I also would like Peatling back in as he’s courageous and lifts standards.

I’m sure if they are not playing Gruz yet it’s because he’s not ready. They don’t keep these guys in the twos for fun, Riccardi is enigmatic but he’s still a marking force and he takes attention away from Hogan. Cadman needs two or three years to strengthen and develop his craft.

Other than that and maybe some positional switching we don’t have any other real options and have to make do. Not time for panic stations but a reality check that we aren’t as good as we thought.

Could Himmelberg play wing, Riccardi go down back?
Not the whole game necessarily.

 

[Del208273]

Could Himmelberg play wing, Riccardi go down back?
Not the whole game necessarily.

It's an interesting proposal. Himmelberg is a better kick and could get the ball moving to the F50 a lot better than it has been lately. And when is the last time he has snuck forward and kicked a long bomb from the 50 or just outside??

I just don't think that Riccardi works hard enough in the Giants F50 at the moment to even contemplate him going back.

Considering Geelong had Close, Rohan and Miers starting in the HF line over the weekend, I see someone like Riccardi being a huge risk. He'll be run off his feet.

Then again a lot of players aren't really putting in right now.....

If Kingsley just makes the one forced change with Jones out, I'll be very surprised and rather peeved.

Those magnets need to be moved around and a few players given a reality check.

 

[taurus]

I didn’t write it as a fact so of course it’s my opinion.
lol NRL isn’t moving away because of some mythical be, some clubs are loving away because 10k in an 80k stadium is ridiculous.
The SOO, Grand Finals and other big games will still be played there.

There are plenty of ways to do this.
Yes a lower drawing game at Blacktown would work, adding the away derby in Sydney at the same time would mean we aren’t out of Sydney for long at all.

Also maybe a double header event with the Swans at the SCG, not my preference but would also mean not being away for that Easter period of time.
Thats off the top of my head and there are smarter people than me at the club.

You have a Tassie emblem there I see.
Tell me, if Tassie, a parochial region already in love with the sport, needs a team, doesn’t a region just as parochial about themselves, who are new to the sport and the league wants to win over, deserve, or more importantly need, one too?

Well I think the admin decided to stick with Canberra at the end of the day so they crunched the numbers. And they know the business.

Tasmania and GWS are completely different situations. I don't need to insult your intelligence by highlighting them.

AFL wants Western Sydney, not needing them. A slice of the market, not dominance, ofc.

Back to the point of Olympic Park. I don't know if you follow the NRL as well, but Homebush isn't loved by the fans. Heck, Leichardt is getting some money so their plumbing system will work!