Review Round 12, 2019 - Carlton vs. Brisbane Lions

[carnaroys08]

Nice to see there is a healthy "piss take" crew building who give votes to our 5 worst Hippy missed out this week for mine as a young KPF can't be expected to do much more while Cameron/McCarthy/Rayner & others keep getting in his way in marking contests & blocking his space. Bad coaching/discipline.

 

[3KZ is Football]

Rayners 2nd qtr was truly the turning point.

Yep.

 

[CarterS]

[

Giants away port away Geelong Gabba Richmond MCG hawks Tasmania are all losses in my books.

Have to win every other game now to make it

We seem to have a habit of winning games we shouldn't win so I wouldn't completely write all of them off.

 

[MacMum]

Fair enough, my intention was to avoid responses such as yours.
I'm a legitimate fan of some of your players, particularly Berry & McCluggage.
Fwiw I've commented on opposition boards following some of Carltons disappointing efforts in recent weeks against the Bombers & Saints.
Anyway, all the best for the rest of the season.

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Not all of us are rude and ill-mannered BlueJet .

I suspect you may know a couple of our boys after seeing your other club is North Ballarat. Very familiar with Ballarat myself.

 

[Gibbo_88]

Which takes us back to team selection.

Who in the reserves was the player to stop Cripps and lead the way?

 

[kylegee28]

And that's not a coaching issue? How about you stick your neck out and offer an intelligent opinion?

In today's case, I'd say it's on field leadership issue. (Charlie and Dayne niggles didn't help either) We were definitely on in the first quarter and a bit but took our foot off the throat when we had a healthy lead. Coaches can't really do anything half way through a quarter to improve intensity at the coal face. That's on your on field leaders.

 

[acuguy]

Perspective- We all would've taken 7-5 at the bye if it was offered at the beginning of the season. What we know

1. McInerney is a must have in the team. Every supporter missed him today. Big pay rise coming!!
2. We are a gun midfielder short-Rayner is looking like a bust as a midfielder and Ely Smith disposal of the footy is a concerm
3. Zac Bailey's stocks grow astronomically while he is out

 

[Happy_Neale]

People are free to disagree, but given the talent on our list and the fact that I actually think that if Fagan doesn’t coach Brisbane into the eight this year we should start looking for a new coach. He can start by going to rehab and getting himself unaddicted to Cam Rayner. Then he can start selecting players who can run. Bastinac and Cutler must be back in the seniors and the extent to which we were outmarked in defence today shows how much we needed Walker. Our forward line desperately needs a restructure. Nibsdy leads.

Maybe your son could coach us.

 

[briztoon]

Well that kinda sucked.


And that’s all I’ve got to say about that.


Apparently the WA U18’s have this really impressive winger who sounds a lot like Tommy Cutler. Off to draft boards I go.





C’mon ya’ll knew that’s where I’ve been all day anyway.

 

[Strato]

Was at game.

We lost that in minutes 5-15 in the second quarter. Was sitting top deck behind our goals at that end. We’re 6 goals to nil up and had 4/5 chances to kick further goals that we could have practically raffled to be 10 goals up. Carlton we’re looking comical at that point, and unfortunately we bungled those chances through arrogance and laziness.

The person at the centre of most of those chances unfortunately was Rayner. Fumbled a pick up running inside 50 off a centre bounce, didn’t pick the right option On Centre wing with Robbie running past, he and mcstay couldn’t pick it up in the pocket (after Mccarthy stuffed a kick) and then he missed a pick up on 50 in right pocket that could have turned into something. In past weeks he’s been ‘out of the game’ but not hurting us. Today he hurt us.

Other 5 minutes of madness was start of third when mcluggage and witherden couldn’t have missed targets in defensive 50 any worse gifting them two goals. Mcluggage particularly bad as I was so relieved we’d kicked the first of the third term to get some breathing space back.

Smith and Martin were soundly beaten. Neither could take a mark the entire game. (Martin did take 2). And they were smacked in hit outs.

The clearances in third quarter were an absolute embarrassment. Never seen a team win that many in a row so comprehensively in exactly the same way (from behind the ball up, running through).

Rayner, Cameron, Mccarthy 24 possessions, 2 goals , 5 tackles between them. Mccarthy also deserves scrutiny.

Fagan barely made any changes all game. Given how poor we were for last 2.5 quarters hard to understand why we didn’t make any moves most obviously tagging Cripps and protecting Neale.

Answerth, Andrews, gardiner, Neale, only one worth votes.

At the game also and agree with what you say. We were beaten in every aspects of the game. Deplorable. I said at the start of the season if we get 10 wins I would be happy with that. Now the way we played today I would say that we are going to struggle get 10. Our team selection - we are getting it wrong and Imo our coaching is poor. No moves at all. Are our assistant coaches - are they any good? I have been a avid lions supporter for many years and today brought me back to the Fitzroy defeats. I was told some weeks ago in Melbourne by another club official that Brisbane is "No bloody good". On today's performance - I cannot argue that he is wrong. I don't like naming players that should be dropped but I will say our team selections are wrong.. One forward player week after week is being ruined - we all know who that is and another outside player in the reserves is not being given a proper chance. I will say that on today's effort, Coaches and players have to lift their game. 37 points up - beaten by 15 points - trounced by the bottom side - forget finals. NOT GOOD.

 

[Scubaveg]

Rayners 2nd qtr was truly the turning point.

That’s tongue in cheek I realize, but that said he had four clangers in a row at the start of the third. On two of those occasions we were streaming forward and he messed it up on the wing. Cost of two goals.


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[Nunez]

If you were to look at todays game and make excuses, you'd be lying to yourself. It was a major disappointment and in my opinion the worst loss we've had for the year.

The one thing that makes me happy about today's loss is that there are many lessons we can learn from today.

We have have received a lesson in what to do when you have a commanding lead. Instead of playing the style that put us in front, we played as if we'd already won. This was the first time we've been in a position such as this, and can walk away with a much better understanding on what to do in that position. In fact we can look at Geelong as the perfect example of what to do. Put the foot down and don't take it off until it's late in the fourth.

We have received a lesson that we'd taught teams last year - never, ever underestimate the power of hunger. It was 5th v 18th. It was a third year coach v the caretaker coach. We lost our hunger when we thought we'd won, only to be met with a hungry, desperate young team much like the Lions of 2017/18 did to the likes of Essendon, Hawthorn etc.

Lastly, we received a lesson in how far off we are from becoming a genuine contender. We now know what our worst looks like, and it wasn't handed to us by a mature team (Essendon, Freo) or a top four contender (Pies) but the 18th team in the competition. This is a very valuable lesson. We already knew what our best looked like, but knowing what happens when we aren't at a consistent level is something all teams have to learn. Brisbane learned this very lesson in 2001. Geelong in 2007. Hawks in 2012. All good teams lose and need to lose. All good teams need to fear this type of performance and use it as fuel to find their ruthless aggression.

In the end, it's a lesson a team like us needed.

 

[carnthemlions]

Today's loss was a combination of lack of mental application and Carlton playing well on emotion once they got some confidence.

I wouldn't be making changes based on anyone's performance today - the whole team pretty much sucked. We do have a habit of performing like this though, so it's something we need to work on.

I haven't seen much suggestion of it but before people like Hipwood, Rayner and other forwards who aren't getting particularly good delivery get dropped, I'd be giving someone like Witherden some time in the twos with the goal to just kick for the best option and not the most spectacular looking option. But I wouldn't encourage that either. I think we can confidently back most of our players in to play roles *most weeks*.

Next year is our year - we've taken some great steps forward this year.

I'd drop Hipwood because I think we should be making an example of him. He (and a few others) are playing like established stars rather than players who haven't achieved anything of note. Constant ill discipline- in our last two games he cost us goals by having kicks smothered by players who were nowhere near him, this week it was him allowing Weitering to zone off all day while waving his arms around and failing to give a contest. He's not good enough to get away with this sort of lazy shit.

Rayner also has to go, he's struggled with the same things all year with no sign of improvement. His fumbles have almost reached Banfield level. He runs over the ball, drops marks and butchers goals multiple times every week. I understand why we persisted with him for a couple of months, but now it's becoming a real problem. At some point the coaching staff will have to start holding him to the same standards they do other fringe players (which is what he should be at the moment).

 

[Simbatheking21]

I don’t think there is anything in my life (work, wife, family) that gives me so much anxiety and stress then this club.. I love the lions but f$&k me...

 

[mpal6]

It's an interesting debate..

Have we arrived and in finals mode already? If yes, then it implies we have the firepower/ capability to "carry" players and still deliver

If we haven't arrived and still developing - then we can't carry players and have to rotate the out of form ones off and call it as it is. No "carrying" business.

Feels like Fagan is stuck between the two now. Next week selection will give a better picture may be.

 

[Nimble Numbat]

Some points from Fagan's press conference:

• we got too cute. Didn't use the ball well.
• we lost because they won clearances and contested ball comprehensively. Fages put it down to effort and mindset. Doesn't think this is an alarming trend for us, but there's room for improvement.
• Neale was solid, needed others to step up.
• he spoke to the players during the week about not underestimating Carlton.

Seems his comments about not underestimating Carlton were only able to keep the players off the bathwater until the 2nd quarter.

He also mentioned (and I think he'd practised this one a few times beforehand) that at this point last year we were 1 win 11 losses. Now we are 7 wins, 5 losses. We are much more competitive. We had a bad day and need to learn from it. Today feels like we haven't improved at all, but if you look at the season as a whole we have.

 

[martinson]

It's an interesting debate..

Have we arrived and in finals mode already? If yes, then it implies we have the firepower/ capability to "carry" players and still deliver

If we haven't arrived and still developing - then we can't carry players and have to rotate the out of form ones off and call it as it is. No "carrying" business.

Feels like Fagan is stuck between the two now. Next week selection will give a better picture may be.

Totally agree.

We need to be realistic of where we're at . I'm watching GWS tonight. They've probably got 3 Lachie Neale's in their M/F and they're still not presently winning. That's how tough the competition is.

Why should we carry players who aren't doing the job. You can put up with someone not turning up occasionally but when they start costing you goals by dropping simple marks ,not chasing ,getting run off through the corridor you just have to try someone else . You owe it to everyone on the list .

Everyone I speak to , not on this thread ,says why isn't Cutler getting a game . They're not total morons about footy.

I get it that we need to be patient ,that we've done well ,that we've got one eye on the future , but surely you have to reach a certain standard.

We're static out of defence ,we're short a couple of decent midfielders especially with Berry out , our forward line didn't work at all today once we looked like getting it in there . Just not enough pressure.

Therefore our expectations have been raised by winning a few games ,the next few weeks will tell how good we actually are, sometimes you just need to be ruthless to keep improving.

We've done really well overall ,the week off should be a time where the players and the coaches can reflect on how best to win games in the back half

 

[Nimble Numbat]

I don’t think there is anything in my life (work, wife, family) that gives me so much anxiety and stress then this club.. I love the lions but f$&k me...

If it's late in the 4th quarter and a close game I'll turn off the tv, walk around the house, and check the score on my mobile. I can't take it.

 

[bungalow_bill]

I have said during various games this season that our discipline is poor and that it will cost us a match. Today was that day. Fagan made a big mistake giving Mitch Robbo a free pass on ill discipline. Leads to other players like Archie thinking it's ok to do the same. This poor discipline spread to giving away lots of unnecessary free kicks in second half of second quarter which gave them massive momentum.

Fagan needs to have a serious chat to Robbo re this.

 

[martinson]

Fagan needs to have a serious chat to Robbo re this.

We had the chance to bury them and as a supporter you were a bit like the players ,oh well we've got it won so we can just cruise and the goals will keep coming.

Massive lesson right there.

Never give a sucker an even break.

 

[3KZ is Football]

Maybe your son could coach us.

Maybe he could, but you do understand he is only seven.

 

[PTizzle]

Hugely disappointing but any calls to replace Fagan are laughable after the mire we were stuck in for years before he came on board. Not tagging Cripps was a mistake, but we don't tend to apply hard tags and I'm not sure anyone would have done a particularly good job negating him with how much Kruezer was thumping our rucks. This loss is entirely on the players after the lead we had imo.

Need a big response after the bye. Especially frustrating we have to sit on this loss for more than the usual week.

 

[martinson]

I still can't believe we only kicked 9 goals for the game when we had 6 a few minutes into the second quarter. Not too many more points either. On a dry windless day.

You'd have to wonder whether it's an aberration . Geez we've put in some really poor performances at Marvel.

The good thing is we've got no cause for any complacency after the bye.

 

[martinson]

Hugely disappointing but any calls to replace Fagan are laughable after the mire we were stuck in for years before he came on board. Not tagging Cripps was a mistake, but we don't tend to apply hard tags and I'm not sure anyone would have done a particularly good job negating him with how much Kruezer was thumping our rucks. This loss is entirely on the players after the lead we had imo.

Need a big response after the bye. Especially frustrating we have to sit on this loss for more than the usual week.

The comments re Fages weren't serious I'm sure.

But like the players there's no doubt he'll be reflecting on what went wrong here

 

[RU_]

I’m still seething over this shit performance. I hope the players feel the same way, I want blood in the Saints game.