Review Round 12 = Collingwood 82-100 Western Bulldogs

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FatherTime said:
I suspect you are right that the midfield was the real problem, but the closeness of the scores would suggest that a better credentialed and performing player up forward, such as Kreuger, or Frampton down back could have turned the final result in our favour. Johnson was incredibly disappointing tonight. Subbing someone other than Noble may also have produced a different result. I don't think it's simply a matter of the midfield losing us the game.
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Yeah if we had a better performing and credentialed kpf we would have played him. Before today, Freddy had had 15 VFL possessions for the year... And has kicked 4 AFL goals in his 5 year 9 game career...
 

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brockbruiser said:
I enjoyed the subtle Ginnivan dig there....
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heh, but he wasn't wrong. It is hard to be a forward sometimes here.. and certainly was the case tonight. But that happens, and even more so tonight when the oppositon dominates I50's and clearance.
 
That's probably the worst game of football John Noble has played in his entire life. Battled his guts out like he usually does but everything he touched resulted in a turnover and 3 or 4 directly turned into WB goals. Ash was a shadow tonight but he was still the worst player on the ground by a fair margin.

Think we learnt a few things tonight, Finn just doesn't have it at this level, Dean isn't anywhere close to being ready and then guys like Bytel, Markov and Johnson give the side close to nothing balance wise.

Could've played Howe AND Frampton forward tonight and left Ash out for Kreuger. I'd love to see what Nathan can give us in the Nathan Murphy role with his speed and left foot bombs. Probably an opportunity missed trying it tonight before a must win Melbourne game on Queens birthday.
 
Fly talked about how this group, probably with their inexperienced, just not quite as hardened to play 4 quarters; which is understandable. But that this group would learn a lot from this.
It'll help them going forward no doubt.

It's giving all these young and inexperienced guys exposure which will only help them in the long run.

But they definitely ran out of legs toward the end.

Fy talked how this group will be much better in coming weeks from all this experience, as they learn their roles more and more.

Talked about possibly a couple guys may be available, probably referring to WHE and Reef, I imagine. I don't think any of the mids will be available. Think more closer to the bye, or post bye.
 
Jen2310 said:
Fly talked about how this group, probably with their inexperienced, just not quite as hardened to play 4 quarters; which is understandable. But that this group would learn a lot from this.
It'll help them going forward no doubt.

It's giving all these young and inexperienced guys exposure which will only help them in the long run.

But they definitely ran out of legs toward the end.

Fy talked how this group will be much better in coming weeks from all this experience, as they learn their roles more and more.

Talked about possibly a couple guys may be available, probably referring to WHE and Reef, I imagine. I don't think any of the mids will be available. Think more closer to the bye, or post bye.
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It’s hard to dislike or disagree with him when you watch his press conferences. I think it’s the positivity he brings, which is infectious.

Qualifying for finals however isn’t a certainty and the time is fast approaching. I’m really interested to see McRae’s demeanour across the next 4 games or so, as he’ll know that injuries etc. won’t cut it if we look like missing finals.

For the record, it’s not the end of the world if we don’t make finals this season, however the club and playing group’s reaction if that eventuates will be critical.
 
brysie said:
It’s hard to dislike or disagree with him when you watch his press conferences. I think it’s the positivity he brings, which is infectious.

Qualifying for finals however isn’t a certainty and the time is fast approaching. I’m really interested to see McRae’s demeanour across the next 4 games or so, as he’ll know that injuries etc. won’t cut it if we look like missing finals.

For the record, it’s not the end of the world if we don’t make finals this season, however the club and playing group’s reaction if that eventuates will be critical.
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Its giving a little dejavu from Geelong in 2023. They won the flag, had an awful year of injuries, missed finals, but then came back with a full pre-season the following year and playing better (minus some losses now of course)
But in their injury crisis, it did breed opportunity for youngsters, which has helped them 12 months later.
 
Hugg said:
The coaches did a great job what they had
Really great ....
Daicos unreal
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No they didn't.
They did a sh*t job to be honest.
Johnson ahead of Kreuger.
Sub Noble ahead of Bytel, Macrae, and a host of other players.
Play Frampton forward.

It was a terrible coaching display.

I love Fly but tonight was not his best.

It was far from a great job.
 

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Fly's presser

Pretty gutsy performance, but was it the critical mass of injuries that got the better of you in the end after doing so well in the last 3-4 weeks to cope with it?
"I think the game itself got away from us with clearances and inside 50s against. That was the game in essence. 64 inside 50s is hard to win. For major parts, I said to the group that I feel like that we're not quite there hardened wise to play 120 minutes; this group in particular. It's two weeks in a row, I don't know if you go back to when we were in front last week and this week, maybe the 15 minute mark or whatever it was in the last quarter or close to it. We're not quite hardened enough. There's a lot of good going on, but we're not quite able to do it for four quarters at the minute for this group. We'll gain a lot out of this".
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Coaches usually don't like to mention injuries, but how much does the massive injury list play into tonight's result?
"How do you measure that? I just look at what we can control. I thought, if you want to just break the game down, I thought the first quarter we dominated but we didn’t take our chances. We could’ve been two or three more goals up than what we were. We had good ascendency, good clearances, centre clearances, and all our good players playing well. And then you play against an opposition that are so elite around the ball, they’re the best clearance team that we’ve come up against. You've got Bont, English playing well and Treloar. They just accumulate and they just wore us down. Maybe it was a bit too far with their talent at that part of the game late, but I think we’ll get to work on some of those system things we can improve".
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How did you see the forward line working with Billy Frampton up forward and Ash Johnson returning?
"I'll repeat myself here, we don’t rely on an individual goalkicker, we rely on a system, and we kicked 12 goals. Now, in the last few weeks, that has been enough to win or draw and tonight it wasn’t so there was a weight of numbers through clearance. That last quarter we hardly saw the ball inside 50. We only had 41 [inside 50s] ourselves, but we scored a lot of the times we went inside 50, but we just didn't get enough there tonight. That's a work in progress".
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How did you see the Nick Daicos and Marcus Bontempelli dual even if they weren't direct opponents?
"I've said this before, Bont would look good in a Collingwood jumper. He's a quality player isn't he? He's an elite player. I enjoy watching him when I watch footy. I'd come to the game to watch a player of his ilk. He can do a lot of things, and then Nick [Daicos] is playing exceptionally well for us. There's a lot of things that Nick does that maybe others don't see. His pressure has been elite for us around the ground. His clearance work has gone to another level. You got your money well spent tonight if you've come to watch those two".
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You were 12 points up at 3QT with the momentum in your favour, what do you put the last quarter drop off down to?
"Clearance. We just lost territory and then when we lost it we had to try and get the ball back inside 50 from our back half and we just didn't quite attack the game in the way we would have liked. We went a bit slow when we could have gone fast and then we got stuck. We've got some work to do on that. I said to the players that we what we are now I guarantee will be different in three weeks time. Not personnel based, but we're learning a lot, we're hardening up. We've got guys in certain phases of the game that are not quite delivering on it, but I know they'll learn and this group won't stand still".
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One of those inexperienced players, Lachie Sullivan seems to be playing a team-focused game trying to make space for Nick Daicos at stoppage(s). Is that one of the positives coming out of your current situation?
"There's many getting great opportunity that maybe they hadn't before and having to back it up. You saw Harvey Harrison last week, it's a tough game this one. You got to do it 6 days or 7 days later and repeat it. 393 games Pendles has played, 'oh my god how has he done that so often?' Lachie is getting a chance to learn and learning on the job. He did some really good stuff tonight and done some stuff where he'll look at and go 'gee, I could have done that better'. He's not going to stand still. There's a lot of opportunities. We play a system-based team. We play roles. I read an article about it's hard to play in the forward line at Collingwood. It is, but we reward it. We had a lot of guys who did a lot of unrewarded stuff tonight and hence why we kicked 12 goals. We're not standing still".
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How did you view Ash Johnson's performance? He was receiving some bronx cheers from the crowd when he took a mark or two, but his defensive efforts seemed okay.
"I think what we need to do is look at us as a collective, and not target individuals about mistakes they made, or whatever it is. We’re a system-based forward-line, and he’s required to play his role within that system. Now, he can do some stuff better and he did some really good stuff too and we’ll live in the space where we reward the behaviour and then look for more of those things once they keep presenting themselves".
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Josh Daicos may have some MRO issues with a punch to Lachlan McNeil that gave away a free off the ball. Did you see the incident?
"No, I haven't seen it. It's hard to comment".
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What did you make of the application of the holding the ball rule and I assumed you watched last night's match with Port Adelaide and Carlton?
"Yeah, a lot quicker aren't they? A lot quicker to pay holding the ball. It's almost like don't fight the tackle or you're gone. I'm not sure if I'm a fan of it, but I know we tackle a lot and we got a lot more holding the balls. Beau McCreery had 100 pressure points, that's a big number for a forward. He can win the Brownlow at this rate".
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Do you think the players have adapted well to the new interpretation quickly?
"I think we're all learning on the job. Tonight looked a bit different to last night I thought. Really hot. Even watching the VFL I thought 'ooh, that's hot'. All those that watched from home get a leg up because it looks like it will be a bit more of a tackle rewarded which is what we've got".
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Lachie Schultz played well tonight and presented himself well. It's arguably his best performance with the club. How did you see his performance?
"Like I said, we're going to get better. I can't see us not improving from these last couple of weeks through opportunities and there's guys learning their roles better. Lachie is competing really hard for us. He's had a bit of a tough patch lately with some stuff off the field and we support him through that and he goes out and shows everyone what he's capable of. He got rewarded on the scoreboard tonight".
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Was John Noble's substitution an injury or tactical sub?
"Tactical. We had Wil Parker who was a like for like and we thought let's get some fresh run on there. The young lad looks like he can play at the level too".
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John Noble seemed to make some nervous mistakes in the first half, did you have to talk to him and calm him down?
"We're entitled to make mistakes. That's the reality of the game. It's what you do next isn't it? That's how we live. We'll make mistakes consistently. The game forces you. It's what you do next that is important".
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Any injuries to report?
"No, we've got no injuries for the first time in a few weeks. Our rehab coordinator, the guy who manages that has been under so much pressure and I think he's got a stress fracture in his foot today [laughs*]. What do you do?
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Anyone that might comeback next week?
"Yeah, I'm not too sure. There might be a couple, but I'm not sure who at the moment that is. We have 10 days until King's Birthday, so it's a good chance to reset ourselves".
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www.afl.com.au

Full post-match, R12: Magpies

Watch Collingwood’s press conference after round 12’s match against Western Bulldogs
www.afl.com.au www.afl.com.au
 
Playing Dean on Darcy instead of Frampton. Seems the coaches didn't learn from the opening 2 rounds.

Charlie Dean is a massive liability defensively and I've been saying it for ages. Teams are going to exploit whoever he is playing on because he's too weak/short to play on the talls, and too slow to play on the quicks.

If Frampton was in defence and Krueger played over Johnson that could have been a different outcome.

In the end you get what you deserve, we played a very very poor bottom 8 players tonight and it cost us the match.
 
Positives: Howe was good I thought
Quaynor played his best game of the season, still not the level I'd hope he could be at.
Nick Daicos was freakishly good
Cameron was very good early. I worry about how often he is getting kneed in the back of the head.
Schultz played his best game in the BnW
Josh Daicos was good but had a few shocking moments
Crisp was good all night, tried hard.

Bad:
Ash Johnson. You simply delist him at the end of the year and pay out his 2025 contract, better for both parties.
Bytel is not an AFL player.
Mcreery needs to offer a lot more to the team. Never offers leads or anything when we have the ball at half back.
Harrison had a shocker. Invisible all night and very fumbly.
Fin Macrae is not an AFL player
Charlie Dean leaks goals every game he plays. Not strong defensively and teams are starting to work that out.
Markov/Frampton the experiment didn't work, but I wont criticize them as they're played terribly out of position.
 
ottoman said:
No they didn't.
They did a sh*t job to be honest.
Johnson ahead of Kreuger.
Sub Noble ahead of Bytel, Macrae, and a host of other players.
Play Frampton forward.

It was a terrible coaching display.

I love Fly but tonight was not his best.

It was far from a great job.
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Look at that team...
It is very low on talent the bottom 6-8 players ..
To get that close with that team was good coaching.
Make no mistake there was some terrible players tonight.
There was some great efforts.
Daicos.both.
Noble disgrace....always hugh turnovers.
Johnston. Actually feel sorry him.
There effort overall is good. The team that is.
The coaches are not to blame.
We lack talent depth.
The draft is a farce. Look at academies up north. Even competition???
Hypocrisy. The King with no clothes...
A joke.
Don't blame the coaches.
And by the way what other sport in the world changes its rules each week fortnight. The high flyers at AFL have everyone bluffed ..
They change this...
Then see that isn't right
Then change that
On and on.
Don't blame the coaches
 
The Royal Sampler said:
Threw that game away in the coaches’ box and selection table. Every single poster on this board could see that Frampton should have played back and Howe forward.
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Howe can’t ruck.

If Frampton was playing back, where would Cameron rest when Frampton was rucking? Back?

Rotating a ruck through the D50 creates too much instability in D50. You want chaos in the forward line, not in the backline.

Krueger would have given a lot more than AJ for that matter.
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AJ was poor, no doubt. But how do we know Krueger would have been any better?

Krueger has played 9 games of senior footy in his career. He hasn’t played senior footy in over a year. He’s only played two games of VFL footy in 2024 - and in those two VFL games Krueger played, AJ played better.

And for all we know he may be way behind AJ fitness wise?

What happened to setting our players up to succeed? So poor.
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We don’t have a lot of choice at the moment?

Clearly we have players who wouldn’t be playing in the position (or at all) if our first, our second, or even our third choice players were available.
 
Hugg said:
Look at that team...
It is very low on talent the bottom 6-8 players ..
To get that close with that team was good coaching.
Make no mistake there was some terrible players tonight.
There was some great efforts.
Daicos.both.
Noble disgrace....always hugh turnovers.
Johnston. Actually feel sorry him.
There effort overall is good. The team that is.
The coaches are not to blame.
We lack talent depth.
The draft is a farce. Look at academies up north. Even competition???
Hypocrisy. The King with no clothes...
A joke.
Don't blame the coaches.
And by the way what other sport in the world changes its rules each week fortnight. The high flyers at AFL have everyone bluffed ..
They change this...
Then see that isn't right
Then change that
On and on.
Don't blame the coaches
Click to expand...

What tune do we sing these lyrics to? I tried Midnight Oil’s US Forces, it doesn’t quite fit. Give us a clue?
 
Do_Beta_Rapport said:
Could we have not moved Frampton back and put Howe or Moore forward?
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No.

You rotate your ruck through the forward line, not the backline. The backline needs structure and stability. The forward line needs chaos and mixing things up.

Howe and Moore can’t ruck. And as much as they may have done a better job in the forward line than Frampton, they were needed down back more.

Frampton is a lockdown back. He can’t run off his man and create attacking opportunities in the way Moore and Howe can.
 
76woodenspooners said:
What tune do we sing these lyrics to? I tried Midnight Oil’s US Forces, it doesn’t quite fit. Give us a clue?
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We've got some fair weathered supporters, so I'm going with an old punk classic

I would sing the song by Ian Duiry and the blockheads and it goes like this:

I wanna be straight
I wanna be straight
I'm sick and tired of taking drugs and staying up late
 
WakeUpPies said:
Playing Billy up forward makes 0 sense. WB has a huge forward line and Billy has been arguably our best shutdown defender this year. Baffling.
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Who was going to play Cox’s role if it wasn’t Frampton?

Our only other option is 18 years old, has only been with the club 2 days, and has never attended a training session?
 
PonsfordMagpie said:
Fly's presser

Pretty gutsy performance, but was it the critical mass of injuries that got the better of you in the end after doing so well in the last 3-4 weeks to cope with it?

Coaches usually don't like to mention injuries, but how much does the massive injury list play into tonight's result?

How did you see the forward line working with Billy Frampton up forward and Ash Johnson returning?

How did you see the Nick Daicos and Marcus Bontempelli dual even if they weren't direct opponents?

You were 12 points up at 3QT with the momentum in your favour, what do you put the last quarter drop off down to?

One of those inexperienced players, Lachie Sullivan seems to be playing a team-focused game trying to make space for Nick Daicos at stoppage(s). Is that one of the positives coming out of your current situation?

How did you view Ash Johnson's performance? He was receiving some bronx cheers from the crowd when he took a mark or two, but his defensive efforts seemed okay.

Josh Daicos may have some MRO issues with a punch to Lachlan McNeil that gave away a free off the ball. Did you see the incident?

What did you make of the application of the holding the ball rule and I assumed you watched last night's match with Port Adelaide and Carlton?

Do you think the players have adapted well to the new interpretation quickly?

Lachie Schultz played well tonight and presented himself well. It's arguably his best performance with the club. How did you see his performance?

Was John Noble's substitution an injury or tactical sub?

John Noble seemed to make some nervous mistakes in the first half, did you have to talk to him and calm him down?

Any injuries to report?

Anyone that might comeback next week?


www.afl.com.au

Full post-match, R12: Magpies

Watch Collingwood’s press conference after round 12’s match against Western Bulldogs
www.afl.com.au www.afl.com.au
Click to expand...

Any idea what Fly was alluding to re off-field stuff that Lachie Schultz has been dealing with?


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Review Round 12 = Collingwood 82-100 Western Bulldogs

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