Preview Round 13 The Sydney Swans vs. The Carlton Blues

[disgruntled goat]

I said 5-6 not 6 and I never mentioned this year only

- Garlett has kicked 5 once this year (His PB is 6 vs Essendon)
Walker has had bags of 6, 5, 5 this year.

- Betts has been out of form this year but he kicked 4 against you and 3 last week, both he and Waite have had a number of 5 goal games.

- Kruezer is more an unknown but he has kicked 3 in a quarter when he has been shifted forward, don't treat him with respect at your own peril.

- Henderson is the only real work in progress but 3 against the cats means you can't ignore him either.

My point was simple, you can't neglect any of our forwards anymore.

Some of you Carlton fans are really getting sucked into the Vic media love fest at the moment. Let's hope your players are believing everything they read too.

 

[Big Kahuna Boot]

Out of the eight 4+ bags posted earlier, six were against the Suns, Lions and Port. Not exactly a benchmark.

..fair point.. ..i guess it's more how our fwd line functions that is in some respects the benchmark.. ..currently, Blues are 3rd for marks I50, 1st for both Loose and Hardball gets I50, and are also 1st for tackles I50..

 

[davis_756]

Out of the eight 4+ bags posted earlier, six were against the Suns, Lions and Port. Not exactly a benchmark.

How about this then, we have 4th, 6th & 16th ranked goal kickers in the comp while no other side has more then 2 in the top 25-30. Walker, Garlett and Betts are all on 20+ for the year, McGlynn at 21 is your only player over 15. Our average score is 101 to your 84.

It really doesn't matter who goals are scored against, Betts kicked 4 against you but he has been by far worse this year then Garlett/Walker.

I pose this question to you, who out of these players do you feel like you can easily cover?

Walker: Kicked 3 in a final against you, in career best form.

Garlett: Probably or at least close 2 the best crumber in the comp right now.

Betts: Turned the game against you last time around with 4 quick goals.

Waite: Probably been disappointing this year but he will take your best defender guaranteed.

Kruezer: 200cm and a great contested mark, rarely misses as well. The only query is how many more games will he take to get back to his best.

Henderson: Won't be kicking a bag on anyone just yet but if you decide to just throw whoever is left on him he will be used as a lead up target out of defense all day.

 

[.Shotties.]

How about this then, we have 4th, 6th & 16th ranked goal kickers in the comp while no other side has more then 2 in the top 25-30. Walker, Garlett and Betts are all on 20+ for the year, McGlynn at 21 is your only player over 15. Our average score is 101 to your 84

How about this: You've played every bottom four team including a glorified TAC cup team with an average losing margin of around 80 points, Sydney have played two. The biggest scores your forward targets have kicked have been almost exclusively against bottom four teams.

 

[davis_756]

Some of you Carlton fans are really getting sucked into the Vic media love fest at the moment. Let's hope your players are believing everything they read too.

Delusional statement at best, when was the last time you actually watched carlton play a game?

Last year our defense was at best borderline average, this year we have added some class with Duigan, Laider & Yarran who have added a great deal more composure down back so much so that a glaring lack of KP defenders has not effected us all year (Bar the collingwood game when we needed 2 jamo's).

Flash back to the end of 2009 and we had Fevola kicking goals and Betts lending a small hand, I think Murphy was 3rd on our goal kicking list which showed how little we had up forward. Guys like Wiggins/Fisher were still being tried to help kick a winning score when Fev cracked the sads.

Our midfield even on last year has improved a lot, Curnow has added that tough inside mid we were missing with Mclean failing to live up to expectations, Robinson has taken his game to new heights and everyone else has continued to improve along the way.

In simple terms our defense has become more solid rather then a leaking siv, our midfield now has that harder edge to it and our forward line is more balanced instead of being 1 dimensional. Call it media hype all you want Carlton is clearly on the way up from our last 2 seasons performances.

With Saints, Dogs, Freo sliding and the Hawks injuries 4th is a minimum for us this year. If anything your looking to displace the Hawks from the 4 not us, even losing to you would not see us lose more then 6 times this year.

 

[Big Kahuna Boot]

..shotties, neither of our teams have yet won a 'big scalp'.. ..if you listed the teams we've both beaten, the list for either of us isn't all that impressive.. ..but you can only beat who you play [yadda yadda], and there's more than the usual amount of 'average' teams this year as well..

 

[davis_756]

How about this: You've played every bottom four team including a glorified TAC cup team with an average losing margin of around 80 points, Sydney have played two. The biggest scores your forward targets have kicked have been almost exclusively against bottom four teams.

We scored 100 points against Geelong, you scored 54

We also beat you at your home ground with no spine.

 

[.Shotties.]

..shotties, neither of our teams have yet won a 'big scalp'.. ..if you listed the teams we've both beaten, the list for either of us isn't all that impressive.. ..but you can only beat who you play [yadda yadda], and there's more than the usual amount of 'average' teams this year as well..

You can only beat who you play, which is why I'm not rattling off useless stats about how well Sydney did against witches hats.

DID U SEE OUR GOALKICKING SPREAD AGAINST PORT AND BRISBANE, HOW ARE YOU GOING TO STOP ALL DAT???

 

[disgruntled goat]

Delusional statement at best, when was the last time you actually watched carlton play a game?

Last year our defense was at best borderline average, this year we have added some class with Duigan, Laider & Yarran who have added a great deal more composure down back so much so that a glaring lack of KP defenders has not effected us all year (Bar the collingwood game when we needed 2 jamo's).

Flash back to the end of 2009 and we had Fevola kicking goals and Betts lending a small hand, I think Murphy was 3rd on our goal kicking list which showed how little we had up forward. Guys like Wiggins/Fisher were still being tried to help kick a winning score when Fev cracked the sads.

Our midfield even on last year has improved a lot, Curnow has added that tough inside mid we were missing with Mclean failing to live up to expectations, Robinson has taken his game to new heights and everyone else has continued to improve along the way.

In simple terms our defense has become more solid rather then a leaking siv, our midfield now has that harder edge to it and our forward line is more balanced instead of being 1 dimensional. Call it media hype all you want Carlton is clearly on the way up from our last 2 seasons performances.

With Saints, Dogs, Freo sliding and the Hawks injuries 4th is a minimum for us this year. If anything your looking to displace the Hawks from the 4 not us, even losing to you would not see us lose more then 6 times this year.

Delusional? Ha. The answer is Sunday, against the ordinary Lions. Whom we beat just as convincingly. In Brisbane.

I have no life, I get to see most of every game, including Carton games.

You're sounding a lot like Essendon supporters were until about 5-6 weeks ago. Your season is not actually in the books yet. Yes, you've improved, and Jamison is a ripper, but the rest of that tripe you're spouting means nothing until it's proven on the field, week after week.

By the way, it's sieve. And it'd be "leaking LIKE a sieve". All sieves leak. That's the point of them. I'll overlook the rest of your garbled spiel. This time.

 

[db swannie]

We scored 100 points against Geelong, you scored 54

We also beat you at your home ground with no spine.

Hold on, didn't we beat you in a final last year when you had no spine? Or did you just have a constricted throat?

 

[.Shotties.]

We scored 100 points against Geelong, you scored 54

Context is everything. One game was played in torrential rain. You also conceded more points than Sydney did.

We also beat you at your home ground with no spine.

Pointing out injuries is a futile statement. Tell me what you know about Sydney's missing players during that game.

 

[Big Kahuna Boot]

You can only beat who you play, which is why I'm not rattling off useless stats about how well Sydney did against witches hats.

DID U SEE OUR GOALKICKING SPREAD AGAINST PORT AND BRISBANE, HOW ARE YOU GOING TO STOP ALL DAT???

..agreed, i've been more just answering/replying to some of yer posts [which i think were in reference to another poster].. ..stats are only as good as they game they've come from, we've both had games where goal conversion/accuracy has been crapola.. ..we've both pulled out wins doing it, but if either of us have another wayward night in front of the sticks it could be hell to pay.. ..one thing's for certain, the conditions this time will be vastly different so it'll be interesting to see if it's as contested a ball game as it was last time.. ..probably so, considering both teams have a big emphasis on winning the contested ball, but with fast breaks when there's the quick clearance..

 

[Dangas]

I am positive last season that we were given NO chance of beating the Blues in Melbourne, yet we won by 40 points However at that time the Blues weren't in the position they are now....

 

[Big Kahuna Boot]

Hold on, didn't we beat you in a final last year when you had no spine? Or did you just have a constricted throat?

..interestingly, both earlier this season and last season's final.. ..both our teams had different lineups for each game, and will most likely have so again this weekend.. ..i actually think at this current point in time both teams are evenly matched in alot of ways.. ..even if going by those names selected on paper it doesnt appear that way..

..[[not gonna bite]]..

 

[Big Kahuna Boot]

I am positive last season that we were given NO chance of beating the Blues in Melbourne, yet we won by 40 points However at that time the Blues weren't in the position they are now....

..and the year before we beat you by 60.. ..both times we caught eachother in form slumps.. ..last 2 games we've both been up for it, ditto this time again.. ..unless one of us turns up in a sudden slump [unlikely], it should be a cracking game and i hope to win [think it could go either way]..

 

[davis_756]

Delusional? Ha. The answer is Sunday, against the ordinary Lions. Whom we beat just as convincingly. In Brisbane.

I have no life, I get to see most of every game, including Carton games.

You're sounding a lot like Essendon supporters were until about 5-6 weeks ago. Your season is not actually in the books yet. Yes, you've improved, and Jamison is a ripper, but the rest of that tripe you're spouting means nothing until it's proven on the field, week after week.

By the way, it's sieve. And it'd be "leaking LIKE a sieve". All sieves leak. That's the point of them. I'll overlook the rest of your garbled spiel. This time.

What exactly has Carlton done this year to not prove we are a genuine top 4 quality side? In 11 games we have lost to only Geelong and Collingwood. One of which we dominated for 3 quarters and should have beaten, the other 3 out of 4 quarters were decided by 1, 0 & 1 points.

Apart from the 2nd quarter against Collingwood we have not been beaten all year yet according to your most educated posters shut down Judd and we are done.

Sydney have not done anything to suggest improvement this year and your forward line is borderline horrible without Goodes, yet clearly your confident about Sunday. I wonder what your willing to stake on the matter.

How do you honestly think you can trouble us this Sunday? All I have seen on here is not how you can win the game but rather how you can avoid losing it.

If your going to rely on the good old 400 stoppages game plan again you will just lose like last time, you can't bring Goodes in to win the midfield and then have no one to kick it 2 either.

 

[SM]

What exactly has Carlton done this year to not prove we are a genuine top 4 quality side? In 11 games we have lost to only Geelong and Collingwood, one of which we dominated for 3 quarters and should have beat and the other where 3/4 quarters were decided by 1, 0 & 1 points.

Apart from the 2nd quarter against Collingwood we have not been beaten all year yet according to your most educated posters shut down Judd and we are done.

Sydney have not done anything to suggest improvement this year and your forward line is borderline horrible without Goodes, yet clearly your confident about Sunday. I wonder what your willing to stake on the matter.

How do you honestly think you can trouble us this Sunday? All I have seen on here is not how you can win the game but rather how you can avoid losing it.

If your going to rely on the good old 400 stoppages game plan again you will just lose like last time, you can't bring Goodes in to win the midfield and then have no one to kick it 2 either.

Lol this guy serious? Mate, who just won the Rising Star nomination? Give you a clue, he plays in the forward line, he plays for Sydney, and he isn't Goodes.

Goodes has been downright terrible in the forward line.

 

[Skystyler]

Kjack is fresh and doesn't look to have missed a beat. Pretty sure the Mummy will slot straight back in to #1 ruck. The midfield has been playing well and the backline has been stingy all year. To me it comes down to whether our forward line can function properly - and that means converting our opportunities. If we dont, we lose. If we do, I think we'll win. Jamison aside, their defense is still sus against good opposition. Yarran will get the sulks if given a forward tag. Duigan and Laidler have shown their desperate to get an AFL career but class is stretching it.

 

[swansfan51]

A few people here are going to get a rude shock this weekend. I read through about 10 pages where people were talking about how hard it will be to drop players, and talking up our fantastic depth. Watch how quickly the tide turns once we have a match against much better quality opposition than Richmond or North Melbourne, and suddenly all the players you think are playing well don't look so good anymore. I guarantee there will be at least 3 players regularly listed in peoples' "outs" lists after this weekend (win or lose) and even more than that against Collingwood (lose or lose).

Those players won't suddenly get any worse, they will just be playing against a better team. Our team will be no worse against Carlton than it was against Richmond, but suddenly the players who are "undroppable" won't be quite so safe.

I imagine the following will feature heavily: Jetta, Seaby or Roberts-Thomson depending on who plays up forward against Thornton and co, Richards/Johnson/Grundy depending on who takes Cloke and Dawes, and one of the half-backs depending on who gets shredded by a small forward.

 

[Dangas]

A few people here are going to get a rude shock this weekend. I read through about 10 pages where people were talking about how hard it will be to drop players, and talking up our fantastic depth. Watch how quickly the tide turns once we have a match against much better quality opposition than Richmond or North Melbourne, and suddenly all the players you think are playing well don't look so good anymore. I guarantee there will be at least 3 players regularly listed in peoples' "outs" lists after this weekend (win or lose) and even more than that against Collingwood (lose or lose).

Those players won't suddenly get any worse, they will just be playing against a better team. Our team will be no worse against Carlton than it was against Richmond, but suddenly the players who are "undroppable" won't be quite so safe.

I imagine the following will feature heavily: Jetta, Seaby or Roberts-Thomson depending on who plays up forward against Thornton and co, Richards/Johnson/Grundy depending on who takes Cloke and Dawes, and one of the half-backs depending on who gets shredded by a small forward.

Please don't state the obvious

 

[NobleBlood]

What exactly has Carlton done this year to not prove we are a genuine top 4 quality side? In 11 games we have lost to only Geelong and Collingwood. One of which we dominated for 3 quarters and should have beaten, the other 3 out of 4 quarters were decided by 1, 0 & 1 points.

I think people are waiting for more time to pass. From someone who I presume has been watching football for many years surely you can appreciate this. As goat mentioned, Essendon were considered on equal level with Carlton after that draw. But then they showed themselves to be pretty ordindary a few weeks later. Its only halfway through the season and as much as we'd love to make one of those lame threads like "Carlton will win the premiership in 2011", people try to look ahead.

In 2010, Brisbane started 5-0. The Swans eventually showed them for what they were and they ended up 7-15 with a percentage of 82%.

Just saying that people are very cynical on this forum for good reason.

 

[Jack2Johnston]

What exactly has Carlton done this year to not prove we are a genuine top 4 quality side? In 11 games we have lost to only Geelong and Collingwood. One of which we dominated for 3 quarters and should have beaten, the other 3 out of 4 quarters were decided by 1, 0 & 1 points.

Perhaps you should look at some of your other games rather than your games against the absolute best Geelong/Coll or absolute worst ie the last 3 weeks Melb/Port/Bris.

Between rounds 4 and 7 you played Essendon, Adelaide, Swans, and St Kilda

Drawing with Essendon (who were still in good form at the time)
Beating Adelaide by 6 points
Beat us by 16 (6 of which were from interchange steward screw up)
Beat St Kilda by 3 points

Those are hardly resounding victories showing much of a gap between you and the teams below.

Apart from the 2nd quarter against Collingwood we have not been beaten all year yet according to your most educated posters shut down Judd and we are done.

Judd always has a blinder against us due to high contested ball gameplan, he is your best contested winner, shutting him down is the #1 most important step to beating you, also the fact that in our last game he was being comprehensively beaten by Jack, and Jack going off with an ankle injury co-incided with Judd playing a blinder of a 3rd Q and pretty much single handedly winning the game for you is likely on posters minds.

Sydney have not done anything to suggest improvement this year and your forward line is borderline horrible without Goodes, yet clearly your confident about Sunday. I wonder what your willing to stake on the matter.
How do you honestly think you can trouble us this Sunday? All I have seen on here is not how you can win the game but rather how you can avoid losing it.
If your going to rely on the good old 400 stoppages game plan again you will just lose like last time, you can't bring Goodes in to win the midfield and then have no one to kick it 2 either.

I contemplated whether or not to respond to this part of your post as it is simply shows you are speaking about things you have no understanding of.

However for your benefit in the future, Sydney has played much of this year with a large number of younger players, whilst changing to a new offensive gameplan revolving around long kicking and low possessions.

Our improvement has come from a number of places, O'Keefe back to his best, racking up the possessions, youngsters Reid, Johnson, Bird have all cemented their spots in our best 22.

Our Forward line has been dysfunctional, however Goodes should not be being played as a permanent forward, our forward line actually works better when he isn't playing their permanently. This is also hopefully addressed by TDL coming back into the side as many Sydney posters were calling for.

We still have plenty of potent scoring options despite the dysfunction, and I'd back our defenders over your forwards comfortably at the moment.

 

[.Shotties.]

What exactly has Carlton done this year to not prove we are a genuine top 4 quality side? In 11 games we have lost to only Geelong and Collingwood. One of which we dominated for 3 quarters and should have beaten, the other 3 out of 4 quarters were decided by 1, 0 & 1 points.

In 11 games you've played 7 bottom nine teams for seven wins and 4 top eight teams for a win and a half.

 

[AG]

Goodes has been downright terrible in the forward line.

In front of goal he is. As a marking hit up target he is one of the best.

Good read, this is why it's good when other posters come onto our board. Entertaining thread.

None of this 'piss off go back to your own board' crap.

 

[MF]

In front of goal he is. As a marking hit up target he is one of the best.

Good read, this is why it's good when other posters come onto our board. Entertaining thread.

None of this 'piss off go back to your own board' crap.

Exactly. As long as it doesn't get personal.. let it go. Nothing worse than precious mods ruining a good bit of banter between rival supporters.