Autopsy Round 16, 2021: Collingwood v St.Kilda

[Xxxx66]

I reckon he’s been hard done by since Ratts took over. Ratts has been reluctant to play him alongside Steele. They both look better when they are playing in the same side. I also think the club expected too much from him when he was a younger player. Asked to do all the heavy lifting alone.

He should think twice before leaving. The three have them have good chemistry. If he maintains the level he can have a great career rather than rolling the dice somewhere else.

 

[Diehard Saint]

I can’t help but think the club has burnt bridges with Dunstan & he will leave & make us look silly. I hope I’m wrong because I really like the way the campaigner goes about his business. Regardless if he is a Saint after this year I hope he does well wherever he is playing.

I fully agree.
What’s to say he doesn’t get dumped when Jones and/or Gresh come back?
Not sure he’d be confident about keeping his spot and honestly you couldn’t blame him. We had to practically be playing with less than a full team before he seriously got a go.
I’d really like him to stay but could 100% understand if he doesn’t. And from an all-round perspective of player and clubman, it’ll be our loss, I think.

 

[Diehard Saint]

I reckon he’s been hard done by since Ratts took over. Ratts has been reluctant to play him alongside Steele. They both look better when they are playing in the same side. I also think the club expected too much from him when he was a younger player. Asked to do all the heavy lifting alone.

And then he did actually get those shoulder injuries….

 

[Diehard Saint]

But to be fair to the club he was given chances and didn’t take them in the past

He always used to play a very reduced amount of game time, and for a player who couldn’t really play anywhere else all he could do was sit in the bench, which was not ideal for interchange.
I couldn’t understand why. His tank?
Hes obviously got it now though.

 

[ScrappyDo]

Collingwood also changed their style. Moved the ball forward a lot quicker which didn't give us time for our team defense to set up as well. Haven't looked at the stats, but we I assume our clearance work from stoppages probably dropped off and allowed the Pies to win the ball a lot more.

I take it all back. Just watched the replay and our boys shut off with 2 or 3 minutes to go in the 3rd.
Taking a guess, l reckon that might have been spotted in the filths coaching box and given our history they came for us in the 4th.

 

[Ephemeral Hope]

He's like a sacrificial virgin goat when we have a bad loss… dropped after Port, Dogs and then Adelaide.

That's ^ lethers holding him for Ratts to finish off.

When all else fails drop Highmore or Lonie

 

[Ephemeral Hope]

Fair enough, hard to argue that. Do you think we look the form side of the competition? Do you think we are looking top 8 bound? It's probably not as bad as I made out but it's not exactly like we are destined for the finals all of a sudden. We have improved but we still look very average. Melbourne look like they are going to stuff it all up too by the way. They are starting to wobble.

Our injury list is very overrated, Jones and Hunter Clark are the only absolute top shelf additions and I'd say that Dunstan and DMac have made that a lot less drastic than their loss could have been. Webster has covered Paton pretty well. Gresham hasn't played much in 2 years so it's hard to mark him off the best list of the last 2 years.

We are playing good footy but there is no ability to sustain the performance. You can't play three quarters of footy and stop. By the way I think strengthening you argument is what debating is about. Your sniping what ever I post is designed to ridicule my position, your consent use of stats to overstate average performance is the same.

With regards to the injury list. If players have stepped up it means that returning players don’t make us necessarily stronger since they’re now equal in output to their replacements. Eg. If Webster’s just as good as Paton then it doesn’t make a difference to our overall performance when he comes back. At Dunstan’s (current) level no one on that injury list is a huge improvement on him, they’ve got more pedigree but right now a lot of our replacements have lifted and our current 22 is pretty similar to the full strength one. Ryder and Marshall the only players who’s replacements are aggressively shit in comparison.

 

[gringo2011]

But to be fair to the club he was given chances and didn’t take them in the past

He definitely did under Richo. Ratts seemed to play him in for one game then dump him for his poor disposal even if he got good numbers and there weren't many better options. I guess it will come down to selling him a future. If he thinks he'll be first out every time he won't stay. Right now he'd be just about first picked and realistically he's only in because we had so many injuries that he was given another go and even that was after trying the kids first.

 

[AirWinmar]

He definitely did under Richo. Ratts seemed to play him in for one game then dump him for his poor disposal even if he got good numbers and there weren't many better options. I guess it will come down to selling him a future. If he thinks he'll be first out every time he won't stay. Right now he'd be just about first picked and realistically he's only in because we had so many injuries that he was given another go and even that was after trying the kids first.

Yep he only had 1 chance last year that he got brownlow votes in and was then dropped. He did injur his shoulder, but from memory that was around 9 or 10 games in. He has literally been the last mid picked this year.

Credit to him that he has kept pushing for selection and trying his guts out. A lot would drop their head and feel sorry for themselves. He has kept an excellent mindset and has done everything he could and even helped out the aflw team.

Good stuff Spook!! Kickings not flash, but you win the ball like a beast. Hope he stays on with us.

 

[Mowman]

He definitely did under Richo. Ratts seemed to play him in for one game then dump him for his poor disposal even if he got good numbers and there weren't many better options. I guess it will come down to selling him a future. If he thinks he'll be first out every time he won't stay. Right now he'd be just about first picked and realistically he's only in because we had so many injuries that he was given another go and even that was after trying the kids first.

His 1st couple games this year he deserved to be 1st out he butchered the ball which resulted directly in goals to opposition. We complained about poor skills under Richo

 

[SaintsSeptember]

With regards to the injury list. If players have stepped up it means that returning players don’t make us necessarily stronger since they’re now equal in output to their replacements. Eg. If Webster’s just as good as Paton then it doesn’t make a difference to our overall performance when he comes back. At Dunstan’s (current) level no one on that injury list is a huge improvement on him, they’ve got more pedigree but right now a lot of our replacements have lifted and our current 22 is pretty similar to the full strength one. Ryder and Marshall the only players who’s replacements are aggressively sh*t in comparison.

It may not pan out that way.
For example, if we had Paton, he might replace an out of form Coffield.
If we had Jones, he might be in the team ahead of an injured Billings.
Gresham can replace Long.

Most players are reasonably generic. Its only your Key forwards and rucks that are a bit more unique.

 

[sammm]

Another disappointing performance from Billings. At this point in his career he should be having more influence on games. If we could get suitable compensation (ie, first round draft choice), I’d be happy to let him walk.

He is playing injured. He should get his operation and be out for the season

 

[Diehard Saint]

He is playing injured. He should get his operation and be out for the season

A lot of players play injured and are managed. It’s not the time now.

 

[sammm]

A lot of players play injured and are managed. It’s not the time now.

Why isn't it the time now?

 

[Ducky Tie]

Not sure why I sat through it again, but that last quarter was bloody woeful. Conceded nine scoring shots in the quarter, plus a couple of rushed behinds. Completely lost our game sense. Went back to Howard taking kick outs. Butler does a silly toe poke to keep the ball in play rather than taking the stoppage - ball goes straight back up the other end. Membrey plays on from a mark after we've just conceded two goals and goes for a risky kick in the middle - turns it over and we concede a goal. Defenders let the Pies get into their lead up and chip style without trying to pressure the lead. These fade outs have been ridiculous.

 

[Noidenous]

Not sure why I sat through it again, but that last quarter was bloody woeful. Conceded nine scoring shots in the quarter, plus a couple of rushed behinds. Completely lost our game sense. Went back to Howard taking kick outs. Butler does a silly toe poke to keep the ball in play rather than taking the stoppage - ball goes straight back up the other end. Membrey plays on from a mark after we've just conceded two goals and goes for a risky kick in the middle - turns it over and we concede a goal. Defenders let the Pies get into their lead up and chip style without trying to pressure the lead. These fade outs have been ridiculous.

That Membrey U-turn was horrific. The last thing you want a leader to be doing.

 

[phantom13]

I actually thought that watching Essendon v Geelong essendons biggest issue was a lack of composure and good decision making under pressure. The last quarter sunday looked similar for us.

 

[Winmar2Lockett]

I reckon he’s been hard done by since Ratts took over. Ratts has been reluctant to play him alongside Steele. They both look better when they are playing in the same side. I also think the club expected too much from him when he was a younger player. Asked to do all the heavy lifting alone.

Dunstan was dropped after the North game last year where Cunnington tore him a new one, swing the game their way while Dunstan turned the ball over at will (I'm sure the Brownlow vote he got was a mistake... the umpire must have meant to give Ziebell the vote).

The midfield then got into some good form and Spook tore his bicep. He probably would have got a go when Gresh and Jones got hurt but was already out for the season himself.

This season he did nothing in the preseason to suggest he should play in front of anyone in the team. He came in for the Richmond game and played exactly the same as he always has... hard, tough then run off of too easily and shanked the ball like he was wearing gumboots. He very deservedly got dropped again.

Now he's back in & has played 3 good games out of the last 4. Good on him. But if he cracks the sh1ts with the club & leaves because he hasn't been gifted games that he didn't deserve then... door. arse. out.

Did he really do the heavy lifting alone? Was in a midfield with Lenny, then Armo, Stuv, an inform Seb, etc.

 

[Premium]

Dunstan was dropped after the North game last year where Cunnington tore him a new one, swing the game their way while Dunstan turned the ball over at will (I'm sure the Brownlow vote he got was a mistake... the umpire must have meant to give Ziebell the vote).

The midfield then got into some good form and Spook tore his bicep. He probably would have got a go when Gresh and Jones got hurt but was already out for the season himself.

This season he did nothing in the preseason to suggest he should play in front of anyone in the team. He came in for the Richmond game and played exactly the same as he always has... hard, tough then run off of too easily and shanked the ball like he was wearing gumboots. He very deservedly got dropped again.

Now he's back in & has played 3 good games out of the last 4. Good on him. But if he cracks the sh1ts with the club & leaves because he hasn't been gifted games that he didn't deserve then... door. arse. out.

Did he really do the heavy lifting alone? Was in a midfield with Lenny, then Armo, Stuv, an inform Seb, etc.

agree with your account of Dunstan - spot on
The last couple of VFL games he played before coming back in some thing clicked because he was even slotting goals with set shots.
If he has improved his disposal its massive , getting a ball in a contest and then planting it on the chest of a opposing player is a team killer and that is what he was doing before.
A lot of inside mids are butchers and if you can get one who can open up play to the teams advantage is a player you have to keep.
Dunstan has had some great games lately but this week will be his test , if he dominates the Lions and if he does he has turned his career around.

 

[Diehard Saint]

Why isn't it the time now?

Because he is obviously still able to play. We have enough out with injury, and whilst there’s still a slight chance of making finals he is still in our best 22. If he has to get pain killing jabs to play, he’s probably no different from many other players.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

Because he is obviously still able to play. We have enough out with injury, and whilst there’s still a slight chance of making finals he is still in our best 22. If he has to get pain killing jabs to play, he’s probably no different from many other players.

I agree, the type of injury he has won't risk his ongoing health if he plays on it.
With so many out long term we can't risk putting him away for the rest of the season.

 

[gringo2011]

Because he is obviously still able to play. We have enough out with injury, and whilst there’s still a slight chance of making finals he is still in our best 22. If he has to get pain killing jabs to play, he’s probably no different from many other players.

He looked a liability last week.

 

[#gosaintas]

He looked a liability last week.

Agree. If that's the best he can muster then he's wasting a spot and can finish his season now.

 

[BrutThough]

He looked a liability last week.

Was his first game back. He will be better this week.

And liability is overstating it.

 

[Ducky Tie]

Been good seeing Webster building into some really nice form recently. He's had a more defensive role all year than in previous seasons, so it's expected that he won't rack up the possessions, but it's nice to see him have multiple games in a row getting to 20 touches. Been great seeing him have a solid season on the park, after such a rough run for the previous 18 months.

It'll be interesting to see how the defence sets up next year, both tall and small. Highmore looks very encouraging as a third tall, but it does leave the defence a bit undersized with Wilkie the second tall. Then there's the return of Paton. It could take him a while to get back to his best so it wouldn't surprise me to see him play in the twos for a while. Probably only one spot available between him and Webster.

We also can't afford to waste another season with Clark like we have this year. They have to get his development right. Way too much throwing between positions this year. Whether he's a half-back or a midfielder, they need to let him develop.

If everyone is on the park, theres potentially the following competing for spots: Howard, Wilkie, Highmore, Coffield, Clark, Hill, Sinclair, Paton, Webster. In an ideal world, Hill gets back to his best as a winger but he's looked far better as a half back so far so there's a fair chance he stays there.