Review Round 17 = Collingwood 80-92 Essendon

[TW Sherrin]

Did the game plan change at quarter time?

First quarter was about hitting up targets with a short kick.

Second quarter on it became trying to kick it through the centre square where essendon had set up camp.

 

[Heater39]

Did you not see the number of times our players did exactly that? And it ended up being marked by the opposition in their defense which allowed them to launch a turnover?

Not helpful advice.



Sure, that makes sense when the opposition has the ball. But it doesn’t make any sense when we have the ball - we want to create as much space as possible.

So what to do when the ball is in dispute? Or we miss a target and quickly turn it over?

Not helpful advice.



The players do play with their eyes open. Sure, they can take time to look around and find the best option - but no point in players doing that if it just means that they get caught with the footy - as has happened plenty of times since the HTB rule reinterpretation.

And as much as a player may look wide open and yelling for the footy - how do you or I know they aren’t just acting as a decoy to draw the opposition away from where we really want to put the football?

Not helpful advice.



As much as it may all look oh so easy to us punters - we really know SFA about the tactics / strategy of games of footy.

And we only get to take a tiny peek through the window of gameday (and maybe training for some). We don’t have any idea about training loads, fitness levels, team orders / instructions / tactics / strategy, what injuries players might be carrying …

… not to mention understanding what tools the opposition has to counteract any ideas you or I might have.

We’ve got no idea what we don’t know.

Hot tip: If you find yourself getting frustrated about us losing, and that if in your opinion our players just need to do XYZ to win …

… and they aren’t doing XYZ …

… take a deep breath, and take solice in the knowledge that you are wrong.

My post was a joke but thanks for the thorough analysis

 

[JLC]

Did you not see the number of times our players did exactly that? And it ended up being marked by the opposition in their defense which allowed them to launch a turnover?

Not helpful advice.



Sure, that makes sense when the opposition has the ball. But it doesn’t make any sense when we have the ball - we want to create as much space as possible.

So what to do when the ball is in dispute? Or we miss a target and quickly turn it over?

Not helpful advice.



The players do play with their eyes open. Sure, they can take time to look around and find the best option - but no point in players doing that if it just means that they get caught with the footy - as has happened plenty of times since the HTB rule reinterpretation.

And as much as a player may look wide open and yelling for the footy - how do you or I know they aren’t just acting as a decoy to draw the opposition away from where we really want to put the football?

Not helpful advice.



As much as it may all look oh so easy to us punters - we really know SFA about the tactics / strategy of games of footy.

And we only get to take a tiny peek through the window of gameday (and maybe training for some). We don’t have any idea about training loads, fitness levels, team orders / instructions / tactics / strategy, what injuries players might be carrying …

… not to mention understanding what tools the opposition has to counteract any ideas you or I might have.

We’ve got no idea what we don’t know.

Hot tip: If you find yourself getting frustrated about us losing, and that if in your opinion our players just need to do XYZ to win …

… and they aren’t doing XYZ …

… take a deep breath, and take solice in the knowledge that you are wrong.

This is one of the reasons why those high up in organizations can get away with blue murder.

No one is allowed to question or ask and automatically assumed to be wrong.

I am big on why players are taken off at crucial stages of matches or after kicking a goal. We almost got burned by having De Goey off in the prelim. That was a major stuff up.

So I think raising certain aspects and conversation is healthy.

 

[76woodenspooners]

This is one of the reasons why those high up in organizations can get away with blue murder.

That’s not true at all.

People “‘high up in organisations” are usually held to account by a board. And by regulators. And often by Unions. And indirectly by their consumers.

No one is allowed to question or ask and automatically assumed to be wrong.

People high up in organisations need to balance the needs of a bunch of different stakeholders and often find themselves having to make ‘least-worst’ decisions.

Not suggesting that those people are always competent and always get it right - it’s just that it can seem all so easy and all so obvious when you’re not the one sitting in the hot seat having to make the tough choices and being held to account when you get it wrong.

So I think raising certain aspects and conversation is healthy.

For the purposes of helping all our understanding of the game? For sure.

But that’s not what is being suggested - it was suggested that we need to be helpful and give the players / coaches meaningful footy advice.

 

[JLC]

That’s not true at all.

People “‘high up in organisations” are usually held to account by a board. And to regulators. And often to Unions. And to their consumers.



People high up in organisations need to balance the needs of a bunch of different stakeholders and often find themselves having to make ‘least-worst’ decisions.

Not suggesting that those people are always competent and always get it right - it’s just that it can seem all so easy and all so obvious when you’re not the one sitting in the hot seat having to make the tough choices and being held to account when you get it wrong.



For the purposes of helping all our understanding of the game? For sure.

But that’s not what is being suggested - it was suggested that we need to be helpful and give the players / coaches meaningful footy advice.

Sorry, no sympathy for those in the hot seat. If it's too hot then don't sit in it. Simple.

I think some of the players could do with some home truths.

 

[76woodenspooners]

Sorry, no sympathy for those in the hot seat. If it's too hot then don't sit in it. Simple.

Not suggesting they need any sympathy.

Am suggesting that nobody should be envious of their role or responsibility. Most punters wouldn’t want to do the work of a senior leadership role for any money.

I think some of the players could do with some home truths.

Years ago I was chatting with the Collingwood CEO at the time and asked him what he thought of those supporters amongst us who are heavily critical of the players? He suggested that that the players get plenty of honest feedback from within the four walls, so it certainly wasn’t something that was foreign to them.

 

[JLC]

Not suggesting they need any sympathy.

Am suggesting that nobody should be envious of their role or responsibility. Most punters wouldn’t want to do the work of a senior leadership role for any money.



Years ago I was chatting with the Collingwood CEO at the time and asked him what he thought of those supporters amongst us who are heavily critical of the players? He suggested that that the players get plenty of honest feedback from within the four walls, so it certainly wasn’t something that was foreign to them.

The difference is as supporters we are not paid to be here. We have a genuine love of the club.

As an example if it wasn't for the supporters of Liverpool standing up against the owners, nothing would have changed.

 

[76woodenspooners]

The difference is as supporters we are not paid to be here. We have a genuine love of the club.

As an example if it wasn't for the supporters of Liverpool standing up against the owners, nothing would have changed.

Of course. That’s why the board are accountable to us members. And the club leadership are accountable to the board. And club staff and players are accountable to club leadership.

Us members have a governance role, not a management role.

 

[No SPIN]

We can manage a 4 day break at senior level to accommodate ANZAC day games, I’m sure we can manage a 5 day break in this instance

They were cautious as I suspected - Reef didn’t play after half time.

 

[stormskye]

They were cautious as I suspected - Reef didn’t play after half time.

Unfortunately spinny he didn’t seem to play on the first half either. Was poor.

 

[anshell]

The biggest problem with our list at both AFL and VFL level is our complete lack of depth in key position stocks.And to make matters worse we have no emerging young key position players at either level.This is something that Hine has never addressed in over a decade now and he needs to be called out on it,or replaced.Just look at that young Essendon player,Caddy,I think his name was.How exciting would it be if we had a young key forward like that emerging.But unfortunately we don’t have anyone on our list like that.

 

[stormskye]

The biggest problem with our list at both AFL and VFL level is our complete lack of depth in key position stocks.And to make matters worse we have no emerging young key position players at either level.This is something that Hine has never addressed in over a decade now and he needs to be called out on it,or replaced.Just look at that young Essendon player,Caddy,I think his name was.How exciting would it be if we had a young key forward like that emerging.But unfortunately we don’t have anyone on our list like that.

Which pick could Hine have gotten one of these with? Caddy is pick 10 btw. When has hine had a top 10 pick to use? The top KPP go early. Some slide but rarely.

 

[anshell]

Which pick could Hine have gotten one of these with? Caddy is pick 10 btw. When has hine had a top 10 pick to use? The top KPP go early. Some slide but rarely.

Yeah,I know he didn’t have that pick.But we know he wouldn’t have gone for a key position player even if had that pick.History shows that he would probably have gone for a small or medium sized utility rather than a key position player.That’s just how he operates.

 

[Mollythedolly]

I’m just repeating what top level American surgeons have said, argue with them I guess.

When did they comment on Checker’s injury? How’d they get his scans?

 

[ElliottsMaggies]

When did they comment on Checker’s injury? How’d they get his scans?

It's hilarious reading Kappa quoting doctors.. wouldn't have a bar of what doctors said in relation to concussion, or anything else iirc.

 

[Kappa]

When did they comment on Checker’s injury? How’d they get his scans?

The comment was about ruptured pectoral tendons and how when you have to surgically reattach them they will never be as strong as before, do you disagree?

It's hilarious reading Kappa quoting doctors.. wouldn't have a bar of what doctors said in relation to concussion, or anything else iirc.

Ah yes, bring up concussion because I was proven so wrong when I said Murphy and McCartin should retire... lmao.

 

[loki04]

"Naive" is too generous. Darcy was AA in '23.

I suspect his anti-Moore ramblings might come from a more insidious place and transcend football.

Imo he had a good first half of the season and got AA off that in a flag side.

2nd half of the season imo his form was not as good.

 

[ElliottsMaggies]

The comment was about ruptured pectoral tendons and how when you have to surgically reattach them they will never be as strong as before, do you disagree?



Ah yes, bring up concussion because I was proven so wrong when I said Murphy and McCartin should retire... lmao.

Haha, everyone thought they should & would both retire.

You just kept criticising the doctors back then..but now you're quoting American surgeons, who are predominantly discussing torn pecs for bodybuilders/weightlifters..not AFL footballers.

 

[Kappa]

Haha, everyone thought they should & would both retire.

You just kept criticising the doctors back then..but now you're quoting American surgeons, who are predominantly discussing torn pecs for bodybuilders/weightlifters..not AFL footballers.

Actually I got a lot of abuse for saying Murphy should retire because the "doctors cleared to him to continue playing". I said it was bad for his long term health to continue playing in 2024, many people disagreed go read the threads.

Please, let's not try to rewrite history to suit our own argument.

It doesn't matter if the person is a weightlifter or a footballer, the point is reattaching the pec tendon is not something that heals 100%.

Mihocek is someone who relies a lot on that upper body strength so it's a terrible injury for him to get.

 

[ElliottsMaggies]

Actually I got a lot of abuse for saying Murphy should retire because the "doctors cleared to him to continue playing". I said it was bad for his long term health to continue playing in 2024, many people disagreed go read the threads.

Please, let's not try to rewrite history to suit our own argument.

Cleared him to play in the GF? Because he passed the test.

We just didn't pretend to know more than the doctors. And still don't.

 

[loki04]

I thought Moore was good. He and Sidey held the defence together.

Game was lost upfield last 2 weeks.

Defenders on a hiding to nothing some quarters.

 

[jathanas]

Imo he had a good first half of the season and got AA off that in a flag side.

2nd half of the season imo his form was not as good.

Moore played restricted in the tail-end of 23 but yes, his form had tapered off. The first half of the year he was structurally the important player.

 

[loki04]

Moore played restricted in the tail-end of 23 but yes, his form had tapered off. The first half of the year he was structurally the important player.

He still is structurally important to us even with an "average year" (not really poor per se) just not the level of Moore we know he is capable of.

Its his 3rd in Marking, imo at times 1v1 contests, sometimes being caught out of position (likely due to up field) and his dashing runs that seem to be down this year.

Murphy is a massive loss structurally that allowed both Howe and Moore more freedom.

 

[Mr Cannons]

So his game was fine if he wasn’t the captain, right, got it

How you even take that out of what I said is beyond me

 

[Fat Jesus]

How you even take that out of what I said is beyond me

That's exactly what you said.