Autopsy Round 18, 2023: Gold Coast v St.Kilda *PERIS DEBUT*

[StCicatriz]

Not the saviour at all.

He is the bloke who can get houses in order and people working and performing in élite environments.

Which is what the club needs.

Top 500 companies go through periods like this. Bring in a proven CEO to bring the necessary change.

At the very least having an experienced coach like Ross in charge shows you where the issues are. There's no second guessing.

You get the increased standards (like training and prep) and enough experience to properly identify the issues.

Imagine if the same level of criticism of Ross was directed at someone like finnis who was there almost a decade and oversaw the worst performing football depart, the very reason the organisation even exists, since the 80s.

The reason we are in this mess is because the CEO of the last decade couldn't get a single ****ing major football department appointment right. It ultimately was his responsibility to get the football dept performing by overseeing the appointment of the person responsible for its management.

Shit decision after shit decision. 4 footy gms. 2 senior coaches. 3-4 list bosses. 3 recruiters. 3-4 head of fitness. How many ****ed up extensions.

All were defended to the death. It's pathetic really.

Ross comes in and he's not even given a minute to get his feet under the table. Like he's suddenly going to erase all of his predecessor **** ups. And I'm no Ross fan either but christ atleast own who's responsible here. It ain't Ross.

 

[stavro#4]

If we could get Membrey back would like to see Owens play a lot more time midfield

That was the plan before the injuries.

Owens Pou and Windy transform the side in 2 years time. They will all be bonafide mids

 

[sunny3193]

It’s all well and good to argue about the list, trading and drafting.
But it seems to me that development is of equal if not greater importance and we do not have a record to be proud of, irrespective of which players arrived at the Club, or how they arrived.
This is the third season since the Club invested in a quality development person.
I only hear good things about Carroll.
I think it’s important that he was the guy to present Peris with his promotion news.
If we do go back to the talent well, Carroll will be of greater importance to the Club than any of SOS/Gubby/Toce.

 

[Captain Paddy]

I don't think Ross gives a F about making finals.

No one expected us to make finals at the start of the year, in fact with King going down, most would've expected us to be bottom 6.

Ross and the coaches came together in late November I think, they clearly put a focus into the defensive structures first and for the first half of the year we were one of the better defensive teams.

The whole 'cuddly' Ross persona is exactly that, a persona. This isn't Ross' team yet. He's using these year to observe who he has on the roster and to decide who he's going to cut.

I think a lot of those guys who came in 7-9 years ago and had no real leaders to follow and became the leaders and culture setters of our club will be moved on or at least made available if anyone comes asking (Membrey, Gresham, Billings, Ross etc).

These guys have made the easiest money out of footy in recent memory. They came in when the club was shit, were gifted games because we were so shit and never had to work for anything, which is why they never really developed into top flight stars.

Don't you remember at the reports at the start of the year about the heavy drinking culture at the club? That's this crew. I've seen a few of them out at the village bell in st.kilda multiple times in disgusting states.

Outside of Sinclair, Ro and Wilks, our best players this year have been 20 or under. Nas, Owens, Caminiti, Pou, Windhager after he's come back in. Sure some of them have slowed down like Pou, but that's to be expected of younger players.

Ross is going to that this group, along with guys like King, Higgins, Battle etc and create the culture and standard that he's known for. I wouldn't be surprised to see him bring in some old guys that he coached at Freo who are on their last legs just to help him set the culture and habits.

These guys are going to get flogged in the pre season like never before.

Judge Ross on how we look in 2025, not now. And don't compare him with Ratts. Because Ratts was so concerned with being mates with the players that he helped foster the drinking culture.

 

[beside the seaside]

That was the plan before the injuries.

Owens Pou and Windy transform the side in 2 years time. They will all be bonafide mids

Music to my ears. That would change everything.

 

[StCicatriz]

It’s all well and good to argue about the list, trading and drafting.
But it seems to me that development is of equal if not greater importance and we do not have a record to be proud of, irrespective of which players arrived at the Club, or how they arrived.
This is the third season since the Club invested in a quality development person.
I only hear good things about Carroll.
I think it’s important that he was the guy to present Peris with his promotion news.
If we do go back to the talent well, Carroll will be of greater importance to the Club than any of SOS/Gubby/Toce.

I don't entirely agree. I think it's like a pipeline.

Starts with recruitment to get the best players in.

Then you hit development.

Then it's senior coaching if they're good enough to get that far.

Ultimately if you can't pick the players at the recruitment stage doesn't matter who the developer or senior coach is.

Get enough good players and they pretty much coach themselves almost. Look at Pou and how he has prepared to say Hunter Clark. Similar pick position but the attitude is just completely different.

 

[Cairnsman]

It’s all well and good to argue about the list, trading and drafting.
But it seems to me that development is of equal if not greater importance and we do not have a record to be proud of, irrespective of which players arrived at the Club, or how they arrived.
This is the third season since the Club invested in a quality development person.
I only hear good things about Carroll.
I think it’s important that he was the guy to present Peris with his promotion news.
If we do go back to the talent well, Carroll will be of greater importance to the Club than any of SOS/Gubby/Toce.

without the starting talent there is no development, talent and development need to work in harmony.

But you need access to the talent first.

 

[stavro#4]

Music to my ears. That would change everything.

The injuries could be a blessing for Owens.

It will be for Caminiti and to an extent phillipou as he has gotten so many games.

 

[sunny3193]

without the starting talent there is no development, talent and development need to work in harmony.

But you need access to the talent first.

Without development, talent will be unfulfilled.

 

[StCicatriz]

Without development, talent will be unfulfilled.

Cart before the horse my man

 

[StCicatriz]

We are all crying out for some burst inside the center. Could have had serong.

It's just madness.

 

[stavro#4]

We are all crying out for some burst inside the center. Could have had serong.

It's just madness.

to be fair.

There was a point where you could have pencilled in JDG for us

 

[The Cobra]

I don't think Ross gives a F about making finals.

No one expected us to make finals at the start of the year, in fact with King going down, most would've expected us to be bottom 6.

Ross and the coaches came together in late November I think, they clearly put a focus into the defensive structures first and for the first half of the year we were one of the better defensive teams.

The whole 'cuddly' Ross persona is exactly that, a persona. This isn't Ross' team yet. He's using these year to observe who he has on the roster and to decide who he's going to cut.

I think a lot of those guys who came in 7-9 years ago and had no real leaders to follow and became the leaders and culture setters of our club will be moved on or at least made available if anyone comes asking (Membrey, Gresham, Billings, Ross etc).

These guys have made the easiest money out of footy in recent memory. They came in when the club was s**t, were gifted games because we were so s**t and never had to work for anything, which is why they never really developed into top flight stars.

Don't you remember at the reports at the start of the year about the heavy drinking culture at the club? That's this crew. I've seen a few of them out at the village bell in st.kilda multiple times in disgusting states.

Outside of Sinclair, Ro and Wilks, our best players this year have been 20 or under. Nas, Owens, Caminiti, Pou, Windhager after he's come back in. Sure some of them have slowed down like Pou, but that's to be expected of younger players.

Ross is going to that this group, along with guys like King, Higgins, Battle etc and create the culture and standard that he's known for. I wouldn't be surprised to see him bring in some old guys that he coached at Freo who are on their last legs just to help him set the culture and habits.

These guys are going to get flogged in the pre season like never before.

Judge Ross on how we look in 2025, not now. And don't compare him with Ratts. Because Ratts was so concerned with being mates with the players that he helped foster the drinking culture.

Yep - got the same reports from a reliable source re some players drinking big time after games last year and other shenanigans (not drugs).

Certain players were more interested in their stats rather than if the team had won or lost. One of those a part of it has come in for a lot of criticism on this thread (I’ll leave it at that).

 

[Mowman]

Cart before the horse my man

This is the problem we need to start drafting footballers instead of horse and carts

 

[Saint Shags]

I think a lot of those guys who came in 7-9 years ago

Have to disagree with that.
And maybe the leaders at that time dropped the ball.

And those leaders were from the Lyon years.

 

[Captain Paddy]

The best thing we could do would be to keep dropping games and hopefully slide down to a top 6 pick. We need more talent and the higher our pick obviously means a positive for the draft, but also means any potential compo we get from guys leaving will be better as well. If we can get a top 6 pick and someone gives Gresham a Joe Daniher like deal that gets us a first rounder, that would be the best result all round.

 

[Mowman]

The best thing we could do would be to keep dropping games and hopefully slide down to a top 6 pick. We need more talent and the higher our pick obviously means a positive for the draft, but also means any potential compo we get from guys leaving will be better as well. If we can get a top 6 pick and someone gives Gresham a Joe Daniher like deal that gets us a first rounder, that would be the best result all round.

There is only one club that would give Gresham a Daniher like deal and that us

Name once when tanking has worked

 

[Captain Paddy]

The lack of selection integrity. They know no one is taking thier spot so they can cruise.

Go to the top of the table in Collingwood and serve up s**t. You're dropped

No point dropping guys like Gresh and potentially hurting the value we can get back for him. This board was licking their lips at the idea of BING potentially getting dropped and it hurting his trade value.

 

[Cairnsman]

There is only one club that would give Gresham a Daniher like deal and that us

Name once when tanking has worked

Us from 2000 to 2002

Salary cap rorting by Carlton was also a massive leg up.

No other way a poor club can build a GF list unfortunately.

It's why the socialist football system was designed.

 

[Captain Paddy]

GC don't want to tank. They're bringing in a new coach to push them forward. They have 3 top class academy picks coming through and need to lose their first so it doesn't get eaten up by picks.

There is a possibility of senior players heading North and picks, salary and a Dougal replacement at FB who looks much like our FF coming south.

 

[gringo2011]

Doesn’t mean they are all For the bin. It means they have never had to meet these expectations.

They need to step up.

Sometimes using one or two sets the example for the rest.

He knows what he is doing.

Yeah, we can't cut back too hard now. We just have to try to balance it. Lyon seems to get a lot out of a pretty ordinary list so as long as we balance experience and development we should be able to stay mid table and build. Port bring kids through quickly because they have a solid core to take heat off them and let them develop in a shielded environment.

 

[gringo2011]

The issue is we have had years of poor use of the draft (except the last 2 years). We have had years of not drafting star midfeilders. This might be controversial, but with a great offer (2 top 10 picks, 1 in top 5) I would trade King out.

King should be untouchable. He's not a player easily replaced later.

 

[gringo2011]

How many coaches out there have us 9-8 or better with everything that has happened this season?

If you can’t name more than a handful. It’s clearly working.

Yeah honestly exceeded what he should have achieved with the players available. West Coast lost a mass of players and went to the worst side in footy overnight. Sydney got injury and fell apart. Even Geelong looked a shadow without a full list.

My worry is that it's a new coach bounce and next year when the energy boost wears off and we are grinding through another season we will hit the wall if we aren't getting results.

 

[gringo2011]

Acres hasn't been playing good footy for Carlton at all.
He's a really ordinary unit who picks and chooses when he goes and doesn't look when he kicks.
There's a thousand posts on this thread alone complaining about the players we've still got like that.

I don't think that's true, he's been good in every game I've watched. His disposal can be iffy still but he works hard and goes in. We threw him in to get the Hill deal over the line. We never tried him in his best spot and stuffed his development. I'd swap him for Hill tomorrow if they'd do the deal.

Blake Acres and Bradley Hill AFL Stats Comparison

Blake Acres and Bradley Hill AFL Stats Comparison.

www.footywire.com

 

[Captain Paddy]

In fairness to Ross and the coaches, I don't think they instruct the players to do the Seb Ross special and put a 3m handball to the feet of a teammate, or do the Gresham and kick the ball 40m high and 20m long inside 50, or the Brad Hill by running with a couple of bounces up the wing and then lacing out a Gold Coast defender at half forward in 30m of space