Preview Round 18, 2023 : North v Hawthorn, 1:10pm Sunday 16th July, Marvel stadium

[Strapping Young Lad]

I could come back and with the 8 games we lost playing both Meeks and Reeves but correlation does not always imply causation.

I don’t think it’s controversial to state that to most of us here a ruck pairing of Meek and Reeves hasn’t really worked for most of the year.

I just think it's amusing how you've concluded that it's not worked all year, when we've won 4 games with both of them in the side.

"hasn't worked all year...well, apart from the only 4 games of the year with them both in the side... which we've won. Apart from that though...."

 

[MillerHawk]

I just think it's amusing how you've concluded that it's not worked all year, when we've won 4 games with both of them in the side.

"hasn't worked all year...well, apart from the only 4 games of the year with them both in the side... which we've won. Apart from that though...."

Out of curiosity, did either or both rucks play well in the wins?

 

[Simon Crawshay]

I just think it's amusing how you've concluded that it's not worked all year, when we've won 4 games with both of them in the side.

"hasn't worked all year...well, apart from the only 4 games of the year with them both in the side... which we've won. Apart from that though...."

I don’t recall us winning those four games due to a dominant pairing from Meek and Reeves?

Forget the win/loss ratio.

So you SYL personally believe the Meek/Reeves combo has been a successful one in 2023?

Just based on the eye test and watching them play?

 

[badboybobba]

It’s obvious that we are way too slow playing two ruckman, we played our best footy in a month last week.

I think the club knows that one pure ruckman is the way of the future but we haven’t quite worked out who that will be, hence why that both are playing most weeks

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

I don’t recall us winning those four games due to a dominant pairing from Meek and Reeves?

Forget the win/loss ratio.

So you SYL personally believe the Meek/Reeves combo has been a successful one in 2023?

Just based on the eye test and watching them play?

Much like lots of areas of the ground for us I think it's a work in progress.
Much like lots of areas of the ground for us, sometimes it's worked well, sometimes it hasn't.

One thing is certain, they don't get an opportunity to work it out and improve if you don't play them.

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

Out of curiosity, did either or both rucks play well in the wins?

Yeah, in all wins at least one of them had a decent day at the stoppages.

 

[Burtman]

gawn and Grundy are infinitely better in the ruck and forward than our combo, and they still couldn’t make it work. We desperately need a forward who can pinch hit in the ruck, hopefully it’s Ryan or ramsden

 

[SammyC]

We can play ned and meek as the two rucks if...

• we are comfortable that they are largely rotating off the bench and not anything more than shock value up forward
• assuming no injuries, we sub one midway through the 3rd and bring on some run with the other ruck to run it out
• we are comfortable that both are currently tap / clearance players with limited other value.

I think it works ok for us when they are both competitive in the ruck and clearances - but they are young and its rare that both are 'on'. Over time that will get better. But I still think its unlikely either will develop into a fwd threat. Neither are strong enough with their hands and both are a liability when it hits the ground.

Two rucks works best when at least one can play 50% forward. I think we would want Ramsden or Ryan competing for the 2nd ruck role next year, with Ned and Meek being the number 1 options.

Melb is learning the hard way that both Gawn and Grundy play best as number 1. Max can pinch hit fwd but his biggest goal scoring threat is drifting fwd from the ruck, not starting there. Grundy can't play forward. Now they have $2m+ tied up in two players, only one of whihc they need.

 

[Simon Crawshay]

gawn and Grundy are infinitely better in the ruck and forward than our combo, and they still couldn’t make it work. We desperately need a forward who can pinch hit in the ruck, hopefully it’s Ryan or ramsden

The Demons were a much better team when they had a pairing of Gawn and Jackson compared to Gawn and Grundy (and Grundy is I would say a much better player than Jackson)

Because although he is very overhyped and overpaid Jackson is that most valuable of assets, a true forward/ruck combo.

I just cant see any scenario in which a Meek/Reeves pairing will ever work.

Hey thats just my opinion and its up to those two to prove me wrong.

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

gawn and Grundy are infinitely better in the ruck and forward than our combo, and they still couldn’t make it work. We desperately need a forward who can pinch hit in the ruck, hopefully it’s Ryan or ramsden

Grundy hasn't really been getting his hands on it enough at the stoppages. 16 and 17 hitouts the last two weeks. Similar to Meek in why he's had to go back to Box Hill., and Meek can't play forward with much success just yet.

Reeves gets his hands on the ball at the stoppages more than 50% of the time and is rated above average for hits to advantage, which is why he's ahead of Meek.

 

[Dewwwww]

Both of our rucks seem to play better when they are given the mantle as the no1 ruck (due to the other being subbed out / carrying a niggle etc).

Its only early days and I certainly hope it ends up working out however our only successful dual ruck partnership was Bailey/ McEvoy with Hale with the difference being that Hale was kicking bags of goals in the reserves for North and had already shown that he was a very capable full forward in the AFL.

I’m convinced in the future that it’s either Meek or Reeves 80% rucking with Ramsden / Ryan as the secondary option until proven otherwise

 

[SammyC]

Agree we need to find a ruck /fwd secondary option to partner with Reeves or Meek. I think Ned ultimately has the most to offer but lets see what happens. Meek doesn't get his hand to it as much & is inconsistent in his physicality and competitiveness.

The need for this sort of ruck mix is another reason I'm frustrated with Kosi. Its a clear gap, he is 198cm (?), the role was his at least for the short term if he could do it. That was his best opportunity to be an AFL footballer & he just hasn't shown the capability.

 

[Simon Crawshay]

Both of our rucks seem to play better when they are given the mantle as the no1 ruck (due to the other being subbed out / carrying a niggle etc).

Its only early days and I certainly hope it ends up working out however our only successful dual ruck partnership was Bailey/ McEvoy with Hale with the difference being that Hale was kicking bags of goals in the reserves for North and had already shown that he was a very capable full forward in the AFL.

I’m convinced in the future that it’s either Meek or Reeves 80% rucking with Ramsden / Ryan as the secondary option until proven otherwise

BigBoy and Hale were two of the most versatile ruckman of the last twenty years.

Hale was a genuine Forward/Ruck who was a serious forward threat (he kicked 5 goals in a quarter) and BigBoy could play ruck/full forward/centre half forward.

I just can’t see any way Reeves or Meek will ever develop into that type of player, it’s not going to happen.

It’s gotta be one or the other as primary ruck and Ramadan/Ryan as backup as you say.

 

[Simon Crawshay]

Agree we need to find a ruck /fwd secondary option to partner with Reeves or Meek. I think Ned ultimately has the most to offer but lets see what happens. Meek doesn't get his hand to it as much & is inconsistent in his physicality and competitiveness.

The need for this sort of ruck mix is another reason I'm frustrated with Kosi. Its a clear gap, he is 198cm (?), the role was his at least for the short term if he could do it. That was his best opportunity to be an AFL footballer & he just hasn't shown the capability.

That’s the problem with Kossy though. Being a ruck takes a fair amount of football acumen (knowing where to run to, how to compete in the ruck, etc).

He has all the physical tools but I just don’t think footy comes naturally to Kosi. He seems to get by on pure athletic ability which is difficult.

 

[lethalselbow]

Meek and Reeves won't be taking the field together. Will only be one. Meek on the bench is just in case or just to keep Reeves on his toes.

Why have a good week with one ruckman only to go back to two ruckmen again?

One ruck.

 

[HedgeFund]

So Meek in again means another trial of the two ruck set ups could be on the cards?

Seems an unusual decision on the week that the Dees have dropped Grundy to get Gawn one out ruck again.

Why would Melbourne’s decision to drop Grundy make our decision to play two rucks “unusual”?

 

[barbster]

gawn and Grundy are infinitely better in the ruck and forward than our combo, and they still couldn’t make it work. We desperately need a forward who can pinch hit in the ruck, hopefully it’s Ryan or ramsden

Still unsure why we didn’t pick up Grundy who was going cheap. Could have been a straight swap for Mitchell. Still has another 5 years in him.

 

[TheFourPillars]

Still unsure why we didn’t pick up Grundy who was going cheap. Could have been a straight swap for Mitchell. Still has another 5 years in him.

Because he didnt want to come to us

 

[Simon Crawshay]

Why would Melbourne’s decision to drop Grundy make our decision to play two rucks “unusual”?

Because if the Demons can't make a two pure ruck combo work with the two best rucks of the last ten years I doubt we will make it work with a much less talented duo of pure rucks in Reeves and Meek.

 

[Roger Rogerson]

Ryan had his right knee strapped at training yesterday morning and left the track early.
DGB trained in the forward group
Kosi in the backs
Reeves taping on his left knee
Light duties group was Morrison, Lewis, Seamus and Fionn.
Karl didn't do any of the training
Last night, Zane Littlejohn said that O'Hara had a small setback and he's slowly building his fitness to play but no timeline for his return.

I watched Karl do the warm up before the Carlton game. He isn't right. He hasn't been himself for a few weeks. Shanking kicks. Somethings off.

 

[Roger Rogerson]

Yeah, in all wins at least one of them had a decent day at the stoppages.

But not both?

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

But not both?

In the games where Meek has had decent output around the ground Reeves has had good games in the middle.
They have different strengths, and Meek has the capability to get involved a bit more because he’s not as much of a baby giraffe like Reeves,

 

[Roger Rogerson]

In the games where Meek has had decent output around the ground Reeves has had good games in the middle.
They have different strengths, and Meek has the capability to get involved a bit more because he’s not as much of a baby giraffe like Reeves,

Foot in each camp. I think at selection we are being too purest with our theory around ruck influence. We can't play both where they are at in their development its hurting us too much.

On balance I'd prefer to run Meek into the ground as no. 1 ruck for 2 months as I am more confident he can start to have a presence around the ground. I think that is more important than showcasing a baby giraffe to the members in the centre enclosure as a novelty.

 

[Delecate Des]

I reckon we will win this, I can feel it in my giblets

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

Foot in each camp. I think at selection we are being too purest with our theory around ruck influence. We can't play both where they are at in their development its hurting us too much.

On balance I'd prefer to run Meek into the ground as no. 1 ruck for 2 months as I am more confident he can start to have a presence around the ground. I think that is more important than showcasing a baby giraffe to the members in the centre enclosure as a novelty.

That baby giraffe has one the biggest weapons in our side that we’re not yet taking full advantage of though.
That’s quite literally why Sam is playing him each and every week and asking him to do more around the ground.

I think this year is about development, not wins, so I am not sure that the rucks having issues to work through really hurts us enough to make us throw the plan away.

I think every game that our mids play with the two rucks is a game closer to us getting a good rhythm and understanding in the middle.