Autopsy Round 19, 2024: Saints v Eagles

[Winmar2Lockett]

Bonner is probably unfairly maligned. He's had a couple of poor weeks but overall he's been a massive win. When a depth top up that cost nothing plays just about every game it's a win.

He's fourth for possessions, seventh for marks, ninth in disposal efficiency, sixth in clangers (equal with Nas), fourth in effective disposals, third in rebound 50s, equal eighth (with Brad Hill) for SC score etc.

He's certainly not elite and he makes mistakes but they tend to get focussed on and his good plays get over looked. He tries a lot of high risk kicks because of his long kicking and when they don't come off they are really damaging.

Brad Hill can make some absolute howlers too but we like him so gets let off. If Bonner is your 23rd player you are going well for depth. He's a classic Lyon player, has flaws but his game as an overall adds to the side.

I don't think Brad Hill gets off at all.

He's probably top 3 in our B&F yet there's still numbskulls around our reserved seats that carry on whenever he has the ball.

Bonner's biggest issue is he turns it over when he is seemingly under little pressure & simply trying to execute a basic skill.

At least Hilly is usually trying to bite off something challenging when he turns it over.

 

[SG34]

I don't think Brad Hill gets off at all.

He's probably top 3 in our B&F yet there's still numbskulls around our reserved seats that carry on whenever he has the ball.

Bonner's biggest issue is he turns it over when he is seemingly under little pressure & simply trying to execute a basic skill.

At least Hilly is usually trying to bite off something challenging when he turns it over.

Agree

Hill takes it on..exposes himself to risk in the process. Sometimes sublime passes, sometimes hospital handballs. But he’s on and overall, it’s a huge win on balance.

It looks to me that Ross is preferring Bonner to others, like Paton and Stocker, but who knows. Maybe an ode to the ‘speed’ philosophy he started talking about last year?

 

[gringo2011]

I don't think Brad Hill gets off at all.

He's probably top 3 in our B&F yet there's still numbskulls around our reserved seats that carry on whenever he has the ball.

Bonner's biggest issue is he turns it over when he is seemingly under little pressure & simply trying to execute a basic skill.

At least Hilly is usually trying to bite off something challenging when he turns it over.

I think it's the nature of the kicks. Kicking long on the run is actually pretty tricky. He is usually trying to pick off a target out in space and you want to be moving it before the space goes so you're getting on your foot fast. His kicks are often good but the howlers stand out. Last few weeks he's been pretty average but for the bulk of the season I think he's been overall positive.

I think most kicks in AFL are under pressure these days and off HBF you'd think even more so. He's a guy with that long kick as a weapon and a bit below average in a few other areas. He's going to frustrate fans but he's the least of our issues.

 

[gringo2011]

Agree

Hill takes it on..exposes himself to risk in the process. Sometimes sublime passes, sometimes hospital handballs. But he’s on and overall, it’s a huge win on balance.

It looks to me that Ross is preferring Bonner to others, like Paton and Stocker, but who knows. Maybe an ode to the ‘speed’ philosophy he started talking about last year?

Stocker is a equally bad kick but plays a tougher brand. Paton is a good all rounder with no standout traits but rarely does anything wrong. If anything he's a bit safe.

Bonner is the long slice the game open kick that in modern footy is as important as winning clearance. He still goes back and plays high risk even when he makes mistakes. I'm reckoning the coaches probably like him for that alone.

 

[SG34]

Stocker is a equally bad kick but plays a tougher brand. Paton is a good all rounder with no standout traits but rarely does anything wrong. If anything he's a bit safe.

Bonner is the long slice the game open kick that in modern footy is as important as winning clearance. He still goes back and plays high risk even when he makes mistakes. I'm reckoning the coaches probably like him for that alone.

I didn't watch much footy back then, but would Shane Savage have been in that mold? Maybe Lienhert? (the SA dude we had for a year or two)?

 

[SaintsSeptember]

I didn't watch much footy back then, but would Shane Savage have been in that mold? Maybe Lienhert? (the SA dude we had for a year or two)?

Was odd that we delisted Savage when we did.

 

[sauce_head]

Was odd that we delisted Savage when we did.

Agree. His marking was still improving!

 

[SG34]

Agree. His marking was still improving!

What a career that guy had. I mean, it isn't glittering and gold, but it is a very decent and solid career from a guy who was a worker. He played some seasons at Hawthorn almost every game and only to be dropped or injured for finals. For all of the Hawks success he played in one losing GF. For Hawthorn 31 wins and 15 losses. For St Kilda 37 wins and 59 losses. So this Kiwi sang the Saints song more than the Hawks one. Obviously, St Kilda were more successful (lol) in the arc of Shane's career.

But who can forget that little sideways handball receive from a player stuck on the 50 line for a set shot, and the glorious goal he kicked, as we win that final. In that glorious moment when victory in a final seemed imminent and Paddy Ryder had not gone down yet. (Or am I hallucinating?)

 

[hayes]

What a career that guy had. I mean, it isn't glittering and gold, but it is a very decent and solid career from a guy who was a worker. He played some seasons at Hawthorn almost every game and only to be dropped or injured for finals. For all of the Hawks success he played in one losing GF. For Hawthorn 31 wins and 15 losses. For St Kilda 37 wins and 59 losses. So this Kiwi sang the Saints song more than the Hawks one. Obviously, St Kilda were more successful (lol) in the arc of Shane's career.

But who can forget that little sideways handball receive from a player stuck on the 50 line for a set shot, and the glorious goal he kicked, as we win that final. In that glorious moment when victory in a final seemed imminent and Paddy Ryder had not gone down yet. (Or am I hallucinating?)

Savage kicked that long bomb goal in the losing final against Richmond. Think he was about 60+ metres out from memory. Extraordinary kick.

 

[SG34]

Savage kicked that long bomb goal in the losing final against Richmond. Think he was about 60+ metres out from memory. Extraordinary kick.

i was hallucinating!! ya I knew it....blending via selective memory - various bits into one story!!! Maybe it was the end of a quarter? Anyway at a moment of hope

 

[Parkysp]

Funny enough I reckon the guy who delivers the ball inside 50 best at the Saints is Byrnes. For a guy with supposed horrible kicking he's one of our best at hitting up a forward on the lead.

Yep. Another who's time in the VFL has helped. He's been very good since he came back in and yes he's hit up forwards well. Next step is for it to be 20 metres further forward so when he's kicking he hits the forward 30m out. ie deep inside 50 compared to shallow

 

[Parkysp]

I don't think Brad Hill gets off at all.

He's probably top 3 in our B&F yet there's still numbskulls around our reserved seats that carry on whenever he has the ball.

Bonner's biggest issue is he turns it over when he is seemingly under little pressure & simply trying to execute a basic skill.

At least Hilly is usually trying to bite off something challenging when he turns it over.

The thing that frustrates me with Hilly and it is his blessing and curse as no player is perfect. He gets caught HTB a lot because his insane endurance puts him into places where his team mate gives him the ball where he can't get past the tackle. He's just not quick enough with his speed. At least it is usually wing along the boundary line!

Having said that he has been a bloody good player for us the last couple of years and his run down smothers are inspirational. An awesome character and for all those that bemoan trading he's been one of my personal favourites and he's bought a lot to the Saints.

Our frankly sh**ful treatment by the AFL shouldn't rest on his shoulders.

 

[jwint43]

Missed this one due to being overseas. Steele looked cooked 3 weeks ago but found something in the Sydney win and suddenly is back to early season form. Great to see.

Good to pump a team and have a stress free win even if it is the Eagles. Great confidence booster heading into killing off the frauds on Saturday.

Hunter Clark

11

Hunter Clark

Age

25

Ht

186cm

Wt

83kg

Pos.

Mid

Career

Season

Last 5

D

17.5

4star

K

9.5

4star

HB

8.0

5star

M

3.6

4star

T

2.9

4star

CL

1.3

3star

D

16.0

4star

K

9.6

4star

HB

6.4

4star

M

3.1

3star

T

2.9

4star

CL

1.9

4star

D

13.2

4star

K

6.6

3star

HB

6.6

4star

M

2.2

3star

T

2.0

4star

CL

0.0

1star

is very quietly putting together an impressive block of form since he came back. He's not the shiny new toy anymore which means he isn't being scrutinised as hard, but he has made us a far better side since he came back in. If he can finally put some full seasons together over the next 3 years, I think he will prove to be an essential part of our push up the ladder and a key player in the midfield.

 

[SteeleSaints]

Bonner is probably unfairly maligned. He's had a couple of poor weeks but overall he's been a massive win. When a depth top up that cost nothing plays just about every game it's a win.

He's fourth for possessions, seventh for marks, ninth in disposal efficiency, sixth in clangers (equal with Nas), fourth in effective disposals, third in rebound 50s, equal eighth (with Brad Hill) for SC score etc.

He's certainly not elite and he makes mistakes but they tend to get focussed on and his good plays get over looked. He tries a lot of high risk kicks because of his long kicking and when they don't come off they are really damaging.

Brad Hill can make some absolute howlers too but we like him so gets let off. If Bonner is your 23rd player you are going well for depth. He's a classic Lyon player, has flaws but his game as an overall adds to the side.

Sorry mate cant agree on that one. Bonner is the classic 'sea gull'. Our game and ball movement allows him to beef his stats being the run by receiver, but he doesn't do enough with his kicks. When he does try an attacking angled kick, 90% result in turnovers.

His worst trait is his lack of physicallity, he's well below average defensively, tackling, marking overhead, or applying enough pressure. Contested possessions are something he has wet dreams over.

His one big attribute is he can cover the ground, which RTB seems to rate highly when we rely so heavily on our rebounding defense.

So basically looking at his possessions rates skews his real contribution to the team. Give me a flanker who can intercept the ball every day of week.

 

[pebblesofsand]

Sorry mate cant agree on that one. Bonner is the classic 'sea gull'. Our game and ball movement allows him to beef his stats being the run by receiver, but he doesn't do enough with his kicks. When he does try an attacking angled kick, 90% result in turnovers.

His worst trait is his lack of physicallity, he's well below average defensively, tackling, marking overhead, or applying enough pressure. Contested possessions are something he has wet dreams over.

His one big attribute is he can cover the ground, which RTB seems to rate highly when we rely so heavily on our rebounding defense.

So basically looking at his possessions rates skews his real contribution to the team. Give me a flanker who can intercept the ball every day of week.

You can't intercept and then provide run and distribution at the same time.

Bonner has played 17 out of a possible 19 games because Battle and Wilkie intercept and having intercepted, Bonner (and others) then provide the run and distribution.

He certainly has his weaknesses but there's very few Cal Wilkie's in the league. So like most players, the coach then has to focus on each players relative strengths and

 

[The Punter]

St Kilda were 3-8 after 11 rounds and no Clark in the team

Since he's been back

Win @ WCE
Win v GC
Loss @ Brisbane
Loss v PA
Win v Sydney
Loss @ Adelaide
Win v WCE

And we've looked better in the midfield. I think we can all look at the numbers (specifically disposals and TOG) and shake our heads a little, but he makes a difference.

 

[Saintbloke]

St Kilda were 3-8 after 11 rounds and no Clark in the team

Since he's been back

Win @ WCE
Win v GC
Loss @ Brisbane
Loss v PA
Win v Sydney
Loss @ Adelaide
Win v WCE

And we've looked better in the midfield. I think we can all look at the numbers (specifically disposals and TOG) and shake our heads a little, but he makes a difference.

In those losses, we were flogged in the midfield. Clark gets a bit of the ball, but the slowness of the midfield is a worry.

 

[The Punter]

In those losses, we were flogged in the midfield. Clark gets a bit of the ball, but the slowness of the midfield is a worry.

I didn't see the Brisbane game, and the Adelaide game was in exceptional circumstances I am on the record I am not too worried about. Against Port Adelaide we were flogged in the middle, then Tom Campbell was subbed out, and the midfield looked better.

 

[gringo2011]

Sorry mate cant agree on that one. Bonner is the classic 'sea gull'. Our game and ball movement allows him to beef his stats being the run by receiver, but he doesn't do enough with his kicks. When he does try an attacking angled kick, 90% result in turnovers.

His worst trait is his lack of physicallity, he's well below average defensively, tackling, marking overhead, or applying enough pressure. Contested possessions are something he has wet dreams over.

His one big attribute is he can cover the ground, which RTB seems to rate highly when we rely so heavily on our rebounding defense.

So basically looking at his possessions rates skews his real contribution to the team. Give me a flanker who can intercept the ball every day of week.

Same shit was said about Hill and Dal and plenty of others. His role isn't to be tough. It's to get out in space and kick. I get you prefer your players bashing head on into people but that's more Stocker and he's not getting games over Bonner so he must be doing something the coaches want.

At the end of the day Bonner is an okay player who has pissed off a fans after a couple of bad performances and now all they see is his down side. If someone comes along and does it better than him he'll get pushed out like all other players. In the meantime you might as well just resign yourself to him being there.

 

[littlecreatures]

Same shit was said about Hill and Dal and plenty of others. His role isn't to be tough. It's to get out in space and kick. I get you prefer your players bashing head on into people but that's more Stocker and he's not getting games over Bonner so he must be doing something the coaches want.

At the end of the day Bonner is an okay player who has pissed off a fans after a couple of bad performances and now all they see is his down side. If someone comes along and does it better than him he'll get pushed out like all other players. In the meantime you might as well just resign yourself to him being there.

To be fair, I don’t think it’s massively dissimilar to either Hill when he came over and Dougald in the last 2-3 seasons who’s been receiving a lot of praise this year.

He just needs to be more diligent Bonner, you can only really dish up the same unforced efforts for so long before fans want to see some sort of resolution or at least minimisation

 

[The Punter]

"Dal is soft" is the biggest myth about a St Kilda player in the 21st century. His statistical profile is almost identical to Lenny's.