Review Round 2, 2023 - Brisbane Lions vs. Melbourne

[Thomasno]

Interesting that there was a media lovefest about Oliver's game but the coaches only gave him 1 vote which I agree with even though he got big stats he was largely ineffectual until the after lights time on period.

He was completely shut out of the game until the 5th Quarter, when he was suddenly the only player on the ground that seemed to give a damn about the result

 

[Sanchez365]

My final thoughts on the game, just to add a couple of things I didn't see touched on so far. Thought we were bloody sensational for 3.5 quarters: as good if not better than vs Geelong in mid 2021, so right up there as our best win under Fagan in terms of quality of play also accounting for quality of opponent.

At the time I was pretty dark on our performance after the resumption, and some of my thoughts at the time would have made some of Nathan Barley's comments seem complimentary I've gradually made peace with our final 10 mins tho and probly glad I've been too busy to post until now.



There were some odd stats to come out of the game tho. Everyone's touched on the clearance domination, which was mind boggling. But on the other side is the intercept differential, which was Melbourne's way 78-65.

Comparing that with our clearance win of 60-32, this means either team had 92 opportunities to score from stoppages, but 143 opportunities from turnover. It's still a turnover game, and we probably still need to be better on that front.

Problem is it's harder to coach. Stoppage coaching is relatively straightforward because players can set up in certain locations and do specific things, but defending turnover almost requires coaching a way of thinking, because of their more chaotic nature.

So this is still a watch for me. Yes, if we dominate clearance like that every week we should win more than we lose, but it's a higher risk strategy and a good opposition coach will work us out (again) in due course.

View attachment 1642146

On the plus side tho, only 46% efficiency inside 50. We are normally better than that so there is upside there. Meanwhile 39% only for Melbourne... Big improvement on the 60% last week. That's the new benchmark really. Outstanding defence.

View attachment 1642147

This is another watch for me. Beat them well in contested ball but they still got us on the outside. This is the exact reverse of the Semi Final last year. I'm not quite what this all means but I wonder about our spread and if we are still getting a bit too sucked in to the ball and contest.

View attachment 1642150

Really want to highlight this. The way we stopped Melbourne's talls at both ends of the ground, but particularly in our forward line, was an absolute feature, and chalk and cheese compared to our "efforts" in the two regular season games last year.

It's also why I think Hipwood deserves a bit more credit than he's got here since the game. Possibly a Murray Davis influence?

View attachment 1642151

Last stat from me... If we really want to become this ruthless and relentless juggernaut I think we can be, our aim should be for our biggest lead of the game to also be the margin at the end of the game.



Final comment... Coming to the game on Friday night I was concerned we were about to see the second coming of our 1998 season, when a talented group blew completely off the rails. Leaving the Gabba tho I liken our current group to our 2000 season. Capable of both the sublime and the ridiculous, usually with little warning of which is coming next before it happens.

I'd like to say this is potentially a good sign, but our current group has reminded me of our 2000 season for a couple of years now... Just wondering if there's any chance we can tick into 2001 soon?

Great analysis. Looked back at last year's season we only had one game that came close to the midfield domination we just showed and that was against GWS with a +25 clearance differential.

I do wonder if our absolute smashing of Melbourne in the midfield covered up some of our defensive running patterns. If you look at our running for the game we matched Melbourne well until the 4th when we clearly just stopped after that break.

 

[On the quiet]

I loved Harris Andrews' interview after the game on the Lions website. Completely different to his midweek press conference which was full of cliches and prepared powder puff. This was raw and passionate; he was trying to keep it together and "take the positives" but you could tell he was absolutely filthy on that last 10 minutes. Much better signs in my view.

They will need to back it up this week because there is no doubt within the Dogs camp they are probably going through worse than what Lions team went through after the Port lose. They will throw everything at us in that first Q. so the team really needs to be switched on. Naughton (who I rate highly) will jump for everything so whoever has the matchup needs to body him, and hopefully Andrews coming across to intercept.

On Dogs board some thought JUH might not play and possibly Bruce forward as Gardner is available.

 

[p4p1]

What did everyone think of Joyce? Is he in the team ahead of Gardiner at the moment? He did some good things but more importantly he didn't give away any stupid frees. Gardiner can kills us when he does that.

 

[knaf]

What did everyone think of Joyce? Is he in the team ahead of Gardiner at the moment? He did some good things but more importantly he didn't give away any stupid frees. Gardiner can kills us when he does that.

Haven’t watch the replay but I was pleasantly surprised by Joyce’s game. it was the first time I had watched him play ( and only on TV).

His skill level, game understand and particularly speed and agility were better than I expected. Disposal was good.

my take is he primarily played on Brown. one of Brown’s goals he lost him completely but I am pretty sure he took the decision to run forward to cover a player with the ball, who was running free into the 50. Always a difficult decision to get right. Brown got another from a beautiful pass that no defender could have stopped. Joyce was only half a step behind. I think Brown got another when Strace matched on him. Not sure how the mismatch happened? Cant remember Brown’s forth. Overall not bad.

And he allowed Andrews to play the intercept role which always makes our defence more cohesive.

On the strength of this game I think he gets another 2 or 3 games at least to cement his spot and to give the coaches a chance to access his attributes against a fully fit Gardiner.

 

[Thomasno]

What did everyone think of Joyce? Is he in the team ahead of Gardiner at the moment? He did some good things but more importantly he didn't give away any stupid frees. Gardiner can kills us when he does that.

I think you’re right in that the most important takeaway from Joyce’s game is that he didn’t make any mistakes - which is arguably more important than trying to be too clever and giving away stupid frees or losing your man.

Definitely has earned a spot in the team I’d say. I would still put Gardiner above him (I really rate dizzy when he’s actually on, watch the Geelong PF for example where he shut Cameron out of the game) - but Joyce being better than we all thought means that we can afford to take our time with Gardiner and actually get him fit, bring him back through the 2s etc.

 

[buttermuffs]

My final thoughts on the game, just to add a couple of things I didn't see touched on so far. Thought we were bloody sensational for 3.5 quarters: as good if not better than vs Geelong in mid 2021, so right up there as our best win under Fagan in terms of quality of play also accounting for quality of opponent.

At the time I was pretty dark on our performance after the resumption, and some of my thoughts at the time would have made some of Nathan Barley's comments seem complimentary I've gradually made peace with our final 10 mins tho and probly glad I've been too busy to post until now.



There were some odd stats to come out of the game tho. Everyone's touched on the clearance domination, which was mind boggling. But on the other side is the intercept differential, which was Melbourne's way 78-65.

Comparing that with our clearance win of 60-32, this means either team had 92 opportunities to score from stoppages, but 143 opportunities from turnover. It's still a turnover game, and we probably still need to be better on that front.

Problem is it's harder to coach. Stoppage coaching is relatively straightforward because players can set up in certain locations and do specific things, but defending turnover almost requires coaching a way of thinking, because of their more chaotic nature.

So this is still a watch for me. Yes, if we dominate clearance like that every week we should win more than we lose, but it's a higher risk strategy and a good opposition coach will work us out (again) in due course.

View attachment 1642146

On the plus side tho, only 46% efficiency inside 50. We are normally better than that so there is upside there. Meanwhile 39% only for Melbourne... Big improvement on the 60% last week. That's the new benchmark really. Outstanding defence.

View attachment 1642147

This is another watch for me. Beat them well in contested ball but they still got us on the outside. This is the exact reverse of the Semi Final last year. I'm not quite what this all means but I wonder about our spread and if we are still getting a bit too sucked in to the ball and contest.

View attachment 1642150

Really want to highlight this. The way we stopped Melbourne's talls at both ends of the ground, but particularly in our forward line, was an absolute feature, and chalk and cheese compared to our "efforts" in the two regular season games last year.

It's also why I think Hipwood deserves a bit more credit than he's got here since the game. Possibly a Murray Davis influence?

View attachment 1642151

Last stat from me... If we really want to become this ruthless and relentless juggernaut I think we can be, our aim should be for our biggest lead of the game to also be the margin at the end of the game.



Final comment... Coming to the game on Friday night I was concerned we were about to see the second coming of our 1998 season, when a talented group blew completely off the rails. Leaving the Gabba tho I liken our current group to our 2000 season. Capable of both the sublime and the ridiculous, usually with little warning of which is coming next before it happens.

I'd like to say this is potentially a good sign, but our current group has reminded me of our 2000 season for a couple of years now... Just wondering if there's any chance we can tick into 2001 soon?

You’re 100% right about the turnovers. You win games most of the time off of scoring off turnovers. It’s the way we played in preseason and that’s definitely why I was excited. In the Dees game we still did really well to set up and prepare to defend when we had the ball to try and prevent Melbourne scoring off turnovers and it worked well. Dare I say it probably caused some more turnovers in the end since we were at times outnumbered in our forward half when we booted it forward. It still led to Melbourne turning it over when they kicked it straight back our way.

I think we can 100% find the balance between creating opportunities off turnovers and preventing opposition opportunities from them.


Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com

 

[buttermuffs]

Great analysis. Looked back at last year's season we only had one game that came close to the midfield domination we just showed and that was against GWS with a +25 clearance differential.

I do wonder if our absolute smashing of Melbourne in the midfield covered up some of our defensive running patterns. If you look at our running for the game we matched Melbourne well until the 4th when we clearly just stopped after that break.

I think the most interesting running stat was the average speed both teams had in both attack and defence. At halftime, the tracker had both teams relatively even at around 7.5km/h for both teams but come games end Melbourne was clocking below 7km/h for both. Feel like it was a clear indicator that the heat definitely had an effect on them in the second half.


Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com

 

[Kernel Kurtz]

What did everyone think of Joyce? Is he in the team ahead of Gardiner at the moment? He did some good things but more importantly he didn't give away any stupid frees. Gardiner can kills us when he does that.

Put it this way.
Was at the game live and when I saw him come out of defense with a run , I imediately thought he was Mckenna, he moves well and his disposal was pretty good from memory.
At this stage I would say he excelled my expectations .
Al;ways thought Dizzy is good at his best, great defender when he's on, but with Andrews back with him we look really slow in reaction time .
Hopefully Joyce can get a run of games and we see how he goes.

 

[Brett C]

We'll know after Round 24

But without wanting to go over it in chapter and verse, we've had so many games in the last 1-2 years where we've been dominating games and then cost ourselves valuable %.

Not even talking about the Richmond and Carlton games here. Even down in Canberra vs the Giants last year, the Bulldogs game at the Gabba. 50 point leads in both but you let them in late and only win by 5-6 goals. In isolation you cop them as once offs but It's become a pattern, notwithstanding the extraordinary circumstances of Friday night.

% matters... How much? We have no idea at the moment. That's why I'm never a fan of putting the cue completely in the rack.

Did you look at last years ladder?

Our % could have been 200% yet it would have made no difference to our position on the ladder.

In 2021 our % helped us finish 4th rather than 5th.

 

[Dalions]

Did you look at last years ladder?

Our % could have been 200% yet it would have made no difference to our position on the ladder.

In 2021 our % helped us finish 4th rather than 5th.

So what are you trying to say?

 

[Grasshopper17]

So what are you trying to say?

Ol mate might have not quite got to my last paragraph.

 

[Dalions]

Ol mate might have not quite got to my last paragraph.

Well I think he is saying that percentage doesn’t matter?
Yet almost every year a team misses out on the 8 due to percentage, teams miss out on top 4 or top 2 on percentage.
It becomes very important and just as important now during early games in the year, as much as games at the end of the year.

 

[Brett C]

So what are you trying to say?

That the initial post ignored the reality, in the last 2 years wether we took our foot off the pedal or not it didn’t impact our finishing position.

 

[Thomasno]

Well I think he is saying that percentage doesn’t matter?
Yet almost every year a team misses out on the 8 due to percentage, teams miss out on top 4 or top 2 on percentage.
It becomes very important and just as important now during early games in the year, as much as games at the end of the year.

Well to be honest if you win enough games, percentage is irrelevant.

Win 20 games by 1 point you’re still finishing top of the ladder.

That should be the primary goal, to just get over the line. Piling on percentage is a secondary goal.

 

[Viceregal]

If at the end of the year we don't need percentage due to the relative point values of the teams above or below us then yes it doesn't matter.

If at the end of the year we DO need percentage either to keep the wolves at bay or to tear down an inconvenient rival it's all but too late to do anything about it in the last round (while I did find the last game vs West Coast iirc engaging it was stressful as and not the ideal preparation for the team about to hit the finals) and it would be best to bank that percentage along with four points early in the season.

I mean how relaxing to be a Geelong surporter going into the last round last year!

Beyond the percentage I would love to see a clinical edge where we win and win well rather than keep letting teams back in

 

[p4p1]

If at the end of the year we don't need percentage due to the relative point values of the teams above or below us then yes it doesn't matter.

If at the end of the year we DO need percentage either to keep the wolves at bay or to tear down an inconvenient rival it's all but too late to do anything about it in the last round (while I did find the last game vs West Coast iirc engaging it was stressful as and not the ideal preparation for the team about to hit the finals) and it would be best to bank that percentage along with four points early in the season.

I mean how relaxing to be a Geelong surporter going into the last round last year!

Beyond the percentage I would love to see a clinical edge where we win and win well rather than keep letting teams back in

I agree, we certainly have lacked that killer instinct in the past to put teams to the sword, however that didn't look like it was going to be the case last week until the power outage.

 

[Grasshopper17]

That the initial post ignored the reality, in the last 2 years wether we took our foot off the pedal or not it didn’t impact our finishing position.

 

[Nunez]

More important than % is beating teams around us on the ladder. If we do that, then realistically our % will take care of itself.

Bulldogs may not be a top four team this year, but a win here + a win against the Pies will be worth it's weight in gold.

 

[briztoon]

That the initial post ignored the reality, in the last 2 years wether we took our foot off the pedal or not it didn’t impact our finishing position.

I distinctly remember being at the Gabba for a final game of the season and the whole crowd yelling “one more point”, to get us in to the top 4 on percentage.

 

[Dalions]

I distinctly remember being at the Gabba for a final game of the season and the whole crowd yelling “one more point”, to get us in to the top 4 on percentage.

It was amazing that it seemed that the whole crowd new that we needed that 1 point and the noise level was amazing.
The most exciting 37 point win I have ever been a part of.

 

[GOTHELIONS16]

I can’t find Fagans press conference after the game anywhere?

 

[MSB ROYS]

I can’t find Fagans press conference after the game anywhere?

The AFL destroyed the tapes because they didn't like the press conference (actually I think that the AFL's equipment didn't work or there was an issue with tape later).

 

[Elixuh]

More important than % is beating teams around us on the ladder. If we do that, then realistically our % will take care of itself.

Bulldogs may not be a top four team this year, but a win here + a win against the Pies will be worth it's weight in gold.

I don’t know nuney the price of gold is pretty high right now

 

[Nunez]

I don’t know nuney the price of gold is pretty high right now

Weight of silver? Work with me here!