Autopsy Round 21, 2023: St.Kilda v Carlton

[Ephemeral Hope]

The problem is they had 6-7 experienced and big bodied mids rotating even with Cerra and Walsh out.. And they dared to play fast and high risk high reward football knowing their mids and backline are strong enough to win the ball back in case of a mistake.

If we turn the call over, most likely a score against us.

Can someone explain how we are playing worse with our players back than when we were ravaged in the first month

 

[kernelT]

Also Higgins is cursed and maybe king too.

No more SaInTs PeOpLe

 

[The Jack]

Let’s be honest. They had their best midfield out, apart from Cripps, plus a Coleman medalist as well as a few more.

We have a long way to go.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

I don't like Gresham's body language with his teammates.

I think Jade Gresham thinks he's a much better footballer than he actually is.

I thought the opposite, to me he looked like he had no confidence in himself, and any time he got it, looked to dish it off.
I don't actually mind that, but he used to be able to take on the game and get results.

 

[gringo2011]

I know it’s small but how many tow pokes little lucky snaps just went there way.

It always counteracted the Lyon/ Roos game plans. Keep it moving before they set up and you can roll them before they set up.

 

[Cairnsman]

Can someone explain how we are playing worse with our players back than when we were ravaged in the first month

list quality.

 

[The Cobra]

Interesting all us arm chair experts got it right - RTB - we were smashed in the midfield in the second half - the mids let us down and couldn’t get it done.

Lose clearance then lose field position, backs tire and eventually crack open.

Coaches rolled Sinclair, Gresham and Windhager through the midfield and they couldn’t get it done.

Coaching is not the problem - they tried pretty much everything - we lack sufficient quality!

 

[Ads734]

It always counteracted the Lyon/ Roos game plans. Keep it moving before they set up and you can roll them before they set up.

Nah honestly the dekoning one that he kicked out of mid air that went straight to curnow was a killer

 

[saintbill]

Was only able to watch glimpses but ultimately a pretty predictable result.

Blues just a way bettet outfit then us. At present I think we have regressed a bit this year.

However, overall I would still rate the year as a step forward given the improvement of our youngsters.

Steele has been horrible all year. We won't miss Gresh one bit when he is gone, and sorry but Hunter Clarke is not AFL standard.

I don't care how good his skills are, he doesn't have the necessary athleticism to make it at this level.

 

[gringo2011]

Not sure why, Brad Hill was contracted and we offered him 900k a year. We were always going to get reamed in that deal.

Nothing like Henry

They reamed us. We could have walked away. Pick 12 should have been overs. Hopefully SOS isn't as piss weak.

 

[Plugger35]

Both Steele and Crouch are very good mids but if you have nothing behind both of them, no others, you will struggle against good midfields.
Neither have any outstanding features to their game. They are both strong contest mids. No burst of speed, no step just honest competitors that can lay tackles and usually find the ball. Crouch is in career best form and still couldn’t impact the game in the 2nd half.

You need a good squad of mids to rotate in there, if we had Ross and Jones it was a different story but we can't rely on them as they are injury prone.

We had Owens in there in the first half who was doing OK but he doesn't have the tank to last a full game, the same goes for Clark and Windhager.

We need to get some more battle hardened mids with a tank to support Steele and Crouch, I would be looking at someone like Flanders from the Suns.

I'm sure GWS have some gun young mids we could target too, SOS has contacts there, surely he can unearth a couple of diamonds in the rough for us.

 

[The Cobra]

I've given it a bit to compose haha.

Look, they're in red hot form, even with the outs they had. That's fact.
We played well in the first half, the non-negotiables (pressure, effort, intensity) were great. Was great viewing.
We're a young team, and could not sustain that intensity, and the better team at the end of the day overran us. It is what it is. Well done to them, they kept at it longer and harder than we did.

Mason Wood in this game confuses me. He was enormous, most disposals, marks, metres gained in the entire game. Held some enormously important outlet marks on the wing and ran hard up and back all game. But damn me... Immense mark on the wing ready to set up an inside 50 attack aaand.. oh yep, he's hit a defender on the tit lace out. Unreal, reckon it happened 5 or 6 times. Lead to direct opposition goals 3 or 4 of those.
Happened once or twice with Hill too, who today, was a bit of a downhill skier (although I normally really rate him).

I liked Kings work up the ground, I saw it at training and I think if he continues this part of his game - maintaining mobility and providing a good lead and mark up the ground he can use his height and reach as a great asset. But his confidence is shot. Drops his lower lip far too easily.

Our mids were aggressive and contested early, and that just faded. Steele disappeared. I think they did a number on Crouch who was electric early.

We truly lost the capacity to win a contest and the later it got in the game, the easier it was for them to waltz it out of a stoppage and use hands to link up.

This was the expected outcome. We are not that team yet. I think we showed promise and fought well until they ran over us.

I reckon that's probably us done in regards to finals, although I (like many of you suffering lot) will turn up week in and week out and support/suffer haha.

Lots to work with, LOTS to work on. Let's hope we hit some good trades/drafts these next 2 years.

Absolutely spot on - A grade post!

 

[gringo2011]

Also Higgins is cursed and maybe king too.

No more SaInTs PeOpLe

You learn to accept defeat watching the Saints. I'd put that as a mark against a potential player too. Although Rozee and Rory Sloane are alright, maybe we just chase the damaged goods.

 

[Munga]

I’d hope he’d kick clutch goals from 20m out tbh. That hurt.

Gotta laugh when he points the finger at Gresh for a bad kick, then misses from 20.

 

[The Cobra]

This is the simple answer why we lose the game we do, we get smacked in the middle

Unfortunately Steele doesn’t seem to be very prominent!

 

[BrutThough]

Someone explain Steele's game for me. He has been good the last two weeks, how does he not get a single touch in the last quarter? 1 clearance for the whole game?? I am just absolutely flabbergasted by that performance.

10 tackles. I'm not smart enough to notice watching the broadcast, but if I was going to give him the benefit of the doubt, is it possible he was heavily tagging Cripps? 10 tackles is impressive, 11 disposals, with none in the last is incredibly poor.
Cripps had more disposals than you would expect with an effective tag, so I'm only throwing it out there.

I was listening on 3AW - they mentioned a few times Steele was too focused with Cripps and didn't seem to be attacking the ball or putting himself in the position to win it half the time.

 

[BrutThough]

Can someone explain how we are playing worse with our players back than when we were ravaged in the first month

Depth players played out of their skin for that month. They have returned to their lower form line now while majority of the players who were missing, still aren't back.

 

[The Cobra]

We complain that alot of our guys are inconsistent... I'd beg to differ. They're very consistent in delivering sub par performances.

Steele's last qtr is pathetic really for a captain of the club. There is absolutely no way he can remain captain next year just like there was no way ratten could continue to be coach.

Clark had 1 kick in the last qtr. The idea this guy will be anything is delusional.

Crouch 0 disposals in the last qtr. We can't win games if 2/3 of our starting midfield don't get a kick for the entire 4th qtr.

Gresham ain't it. His football iq is seriously low. Cannot execute basic disposal. If he does execute the kick he's moving it to a position that makes it harder for us to effectively score from.

Wood and crouch were fantastic as was Nas.

Said this before but Clark is brave as hell and has some decent skills BUT u want to play in the midfield against the elite of the competition you need to be super fit and strong / powerful. Clark is neither - needs to work his backside off in the gym and on the track preseason.

 

[Ephemeral Hope]

I’m going back to positives. Currently in hospital for mental health. Unfortunately, I allowed myself to get ECI to the Saints this week and we all know that’s a mistake.

So I’m taking positives from:

• Keeler 15 and 3 goals.
• Most of our issues are in one area of the ground.
• If we miss the 8, better draft pick . Could easily still end up being reasonably high. Might not be the worst result.
• I take heart from Stav’s reporting around who we might look to move on. Get what we can and mids mids mids. I feel like the club leaders ‘get it’ for a change and that’s nearly the biggest thing of all.
• At the start of last year, we had very little young talent. We’ve found Pou, Owens, Windy, Nas, Hammer and others. Some of that group look likely to become very high level players.

We had them on toast and they are in great form. Not fussed in who they had out. Remember when we had half a team for a looong time, not 1-2 weeks, and we still won.

Take care of yourself and recover well mate. Saints can be a brutal team to follow especially for the mental health. Ripping 99 point win at sandy to cheer about

 

[gringo2011]

Can someone explain how we are playing worse with our players back than when we were ravaged in the first month

I've been pleading for mids for years. Every year we lose mids and don't replace them. Last couple of years have been ruined by injury to mids.

Carlton have 2 elite mids in Cripps and Walsh, an A grader in Cerra and then guys close to A grade in Hewett and Kennedy. Then several others like Dow as depth. Then outsiders/wings like Acres who has passed Hill, Fisher etc. Then others drafted that could play mid like Kemp.

St Kilda has Steele and Crouch who are B to A grade on a good day. Seb Ross who is B grade. Gresham who does play some mids but seems to be a liability in everything he does this year. Then Winghager, Byrnes, Clark types that are okay as part timers and Owens that might become a full time mid in a year or two. Outsiders in Wood and Byrnes.

We'll cull next year and be even worse for depth and doubt they'll replace them. Nothing about this draft looks like a midfield draft. If Flanders won't come and we pick up Dow we'll replace Gresham with a guy that plays like Gresham in the midfield. Wins the ball but turns it over through his headless chook running and shit disposal.

We fight above our weight division but we have nowhere near the list to be a serious side and probably have a 5 year period of adding to the pile before we start again when Sincs and Steele types retire. We are going to have been in limbo for 20 years by the time we get our shit together.....if we do.

 

[Ephemeral Hope]

Depth players played out of their skin for that month. They have returned to their lower form line now while majority of the players who were missing, still aren't back.

I remember being a bit worried that our reinforcements wouldn’t actually improve the team since the fill ins were playing so well.

 

[gringo2011]

Unfortunately Steele doesn’t seem to be very prominent!

Steele is good but has no support.

 

[ScrappyDo]

Good to see us revert back to old habits and bomb down the line. Especially good when we’re playing a spare down back.
Never gonna work.

What actually worked for us was taking the game on with hands and hitting the short hit ups.

Didn't start that till the whole team stopped running. Like someone stitched off the power.

 

[Mowman]

They reamed us. We could have walked away. Pick 12 should have been overs. Hopefully SOS isn't as piss weak.

And they got Blake Acres too
Take Acres over Hill every day of the week and Serong

 

[Cairnsman]

Gotta laugh when he points the finger at Gresh for a bad kick, then misses from 20.

Would have been nice if King at least tried to break away from an easy one on one, was in good position to turn his man inside out and give a hard lead, all that was needed was for Gresh to side step his man because he had him out of position too and then run forward to drop an easy ball into the leading King.

King just stood behind his opponent and expected Gresh to pop it up...I mean isn't this the player they call Winx? King should have burned his opponent to get space. Just both dumb footballers atm

They both looked amateurish but their poor attitude after that play was more embarrassing. was the turning point.