Review Round 23, 2022 - Brisbane Lions vs. Melbourne

[lioninthesand]

Not defending the performance at all. But the expected margin based on the algorithm during the game was 20 something for most of the 2nd and 3rd quarter. Was just that every snap, dribble and whatever else went straight through the middle. Weren’t they like 17.3 at one point?

When there’s no pressure and you know the oppo is completely shot from 5 minutes in, it is easy to execute.

Became like a training drill, they would execute in that manner at training - that’s what it was.

The efficiency of scoring wasn’t the reason it was so ugly, our lack of defensive pressure, inferred/applied/otherwise - was the reason they scored so freely.

 

[Fagenslions36]

Putting it simply Zorko has little man syndrome and is a complete w_n$er

 

[lioninthesand]

As has been mentioned elsewhere, Andrews is a different man than he was 2-4 years ago. He was a colossus in defense, inspirational and reliable. There was plenty of love off the field as well with his nickname of Dad. He isn't the same anymore, be it frustration with the game, injury or some personal difficulties we aren't and probably shouldn't be aware of.

Berry was the other guy earmarked for the job. He still shows similar qualities, but regular injuries and up and down form probably means he wouldn't be the best choice as skipper at this point in time.

I think the job has to fall to Neale. He doesn't seem like a big motivator, or the most invested off the field, but he sets very high standards and would certainly play the lead by example leader.

Berry could grow into a skipper, good call.

Few years off though.

 

[Tom14]

When there’s no pressure and you know the oppo is completely shot from 5 minutes in, it is easy to execute.

Became like a training drill, they would execute in that manner at training - that’s what it was.

The efficiency of scoring wasn’t the reason it was so ugly, our lack of defensive pressure, inferred/applied/otherwise - was the reason they scored so freely.

Think it was both. Don't get me wrong, they were miles above us in the game but the margin did blow out early due to accuracy. But if they'd missed highly likely we'd have been hemmed in and unable to move the footy anyway.

 

[Lazza16]

Maybe that'll be a silver lining, we need an injection of fresh legs in finals.

Lohmann n Dev n Tunstill n Madden n Fullarton should all be a tad enthused today. Not sure if Wilmot is ready yet. Hopefully Ah Chee is ok next time....I am guessing Adams maybe more complicated.

 

[lioninthesand]

The more I reflect, the more annoyed I get at Zorko.

He carried in like a f***wit againts the Saints and just carried that appalling attitude into last night, with so much on the line.

If Zorko is off, you know we are stuffed. It’s our skipper it filters straight down through the group.

Nothing has been done to set standards with him either, we just give him BNFs and talk about what an amazing leader he is, no expectations are set around his leadership what do ever.

 

[Fagenslions36]

Didn’t fagan raise with Rockliff toxic culture comments and rumours ? Yet on his watch we have the worst and most unlikeable player in the comp as captain . You know when Steven may

1

Steven May

Age

33

Ht

193cm

Wt

101kg

Pos.

Def

Career

Season

Last 5

D

14.7

4star

K

10.5

4star

HB

4.2

3star

M

5.1

5star

T

1.5

3star

MG

307.3

4star

D

15.5

4star

K

12.1

5star

HB

3.4

2star

M

3.4

3star

T

0.5

1star

MG

378.4

5star

D

12.4

4star

K

8.8

4star

HB

3.6

3star

M

3.2

4star

T

1.8

4star

a bloke who has been punched out by 2 players from 2 different teams won’t shake your hand your in all sorts in terms of respect .

 

[lioninthesand]

i have been a stanch defender of Joe.

But last night was the tipping point for me, his efforts were utterly appalling.

Bloke does not give a shit, doesen’t want to compete, hasn’t for weeks - on 800k a year and not up for it. Again though, nothing will be done with him to demand more and we will have EXACTLY the same lack of effort in our final.

Rinse and repeat.

 

[Gadzorks]

I am still bullish about the future but not with the same coaching panel and line up. Keep fages, he is a good people person, but get some serious coaching support in. We need a clean out there, fresh ideas.

We need a new skipper.

We need to regenerate and go younger, even if it’s at the expense of a couple of years, try something different.

Also, don’t know how you overcome the psychological paralysis we suffer in big games but it’s systemic to this group.

Mentally cooked, so need to fix that too.

That first sentence took me straight to this - I have my grandfather's axe. The head has been replaced three times and the handle twice, but it's still my grandfather's axe.

 

[On the quiet]

Rayner a really good second half, needs to be given more responsibility in the middle next season.
Bailey impressed me in a tough, brave, unselfish kind of way tonight.
Prior tried his guts out, was strong, tough and pretty clean at times while not making great decisions with the ball at times.
Answerth tried hard and took a few intercept marks, pretty low bar but thought he was okay.
Neale was tireless and had his moments but we can't expect him to do it all on his own against the good teams.
Coleman was back to a little bit of his good form tonight which was nice, such a good player to watch.

Gardiner, Lyons, Zorko, Rich, McStay, Matho all out of the 22 for me next season, individually they may be better than their replacements but in a team game I don't believe they're offering enough to the overall performance of the team and in most cases hurting the performance of the team.
No words for Zorko, getting close to the point of just not wanting him at the club anymore.

I'm not blaming the coaching group for the way we played. I liked the way we wanted to play to start the game, took the game on by foot, was aggressive and physical. I am blaming them for not selecting the best 22 capable of playing that way, if we want to take the game on which I believe we should we need players with better skills, better running capacity and a team first mentality.

It just appears to me that zone defence does not work against a well structured, better coached and smarter forward line. Possessing no real superstars, Melbourne forwards just created havoc with blocks and running patterns that left our defenders handing over to others. Just do 1 v 1 and be responsible. I love Kiddy (and he is a lock) and what he offers us offensively from the backline, but we cannot have Rich and Kiddy in the same team, neither of them are defensive players.

Realistically the game was over at Quarter time.

Posted a few times that anything less than a Prelim would be a fail, and this group needs a refresh and that includes some of the assistant coaches. Agree 100% with those you have mentioned. Neal should become captain next year, Andrews has enough to worry about, and is too demonstrative

 

[KissKiss]

i have been a stanch defender of Joe.

But last night was the tipping point for me, his efforts were utterly appalling.

Bloke does not give a s**t, doesen’t want to compete, hasn’t for weeks - on 800k a year and not up for it. Again though, nothing will be done with him to demand more and we will have EXACTLY the same lack of effort in our final.

Rinse and repeat.

Offensively I dont think he was bad. We kept kicking straight up and high to him when he was in a 3 on 1 and had no chance to compete. No idea where the other forwards where to leave so many defenders free though...

Defensively he was bad as was the whole team. I dont single him out as I think its a systematic problem across the middle and front half. I have more issue woth the mids who are meant to be able to be fit enough to chase

 

[martinson]

Our coaching is completely stale , many of our players seem stale or shot . Melbourne started Jackson in the ruck with Gawn forward and surprised with Brayshaw on Neale after naming Harmes.

The last time we surprised on anything was naming Tunstill . 2 years too early.

I wouldn't know where to start to work through our deficiencies but you have to make a start and if we work through what needs to be done and consequently what can honestly , realistically and if necessary brutally we can turn it around. Other teams have. We have.

It starts at the top . Head coach and coaches. Leadership group.

 

[dlanod]

Laughing stock of the competition let’s see fagan try and spin this in to positive. This type of buildup is almost worse than being last because you have hope

Don't worry, there's still Essendon.

 

[On the quiet]

Ben Dixon just said "they're a joke" in reference to us. I expect such sentiment is gonna be pretty common across the talking heads this week. Hopefully this instigates change in the off-season. This is the team's peak and if we want to take the next step something has to be done in terms of personnel and game plan.

yeap a mini rebuild and that must include assistant coaches, some of whom have been there arguably too long.

 

[martinson]

Offensively I dont think he was bad. We kept kicking straight up and high to him when he was in a 3 on 1 and had no chance to compete. No idea where the other forwards where to leave so many defenders free though...

Defensively he was bad as was the whole team. I dont single him out as I think its a systematic problem across the middle and front half. I have more issue woth the mids who are meant to be able to be fit enough to chase

Our forwards and backs often get a leave pass because the m/f isn't functioning.

Last night they didn't try to do anything about it. Just stood around like statues mostly chasing when they felt like it. Do something . It can make a difference.

Some of Melbourne's transitions out of our forward half were embarrassing. Has Fagan lost the players ? Genuine question.

 

[dlanod]

I don't see why everyone's overreacting.

After all we're just banking losses so we don't have them at the wrong time of year.

 

[luthor]

The sad reality of it was being at the game for the most part our players looked like they were legit trying their hearts out and Melbourne just seemed to benefit from every lucky bounce and they'd kick flukey goals out of their arses when we had to work hard for ours.

Watching Melbourne last night was like watching a team of Androids v Men, they were perfectly drilled and positioned all over the ground. It's deflating that they are a teir above us and we have no response for their gameplan and pressure, so tired of losing to Melbourne. We're their bunnies and that doesn't look likely to change anytime soon, we just don't match up well against them at all.

Good post.

The effort wasn't the issue for me.

It's the lack of tactical nous and leadership

We play with what I would term "naivety".

And you are right about how the football gods seemed to be against us. We couldn't catch a break with the 50/50 bounces all night.

Having said that, we should have knuckled down earlier after that first centre square debacle. It beggared belief that our entire midfield group just ran forward and left Brayshaw standing goal side on his own. We know what happened after that.

We almost seem to have a collective learning disability to adjust to the situation of the game.

This faux "tough guy" bullshit has crept into our psyche and does not serve us well.

I think it's probably a poor over-reaction to us being labelled "too nice" in previous failed campaigns. I clearly remember that was a thing for the last couple of years.

We need to move on but there really has to be a whole of team adjustment to our style, particularly the team defensive structures and the way we deal with adverse situations in game.

Over to you coaches.

 

[lioninthesand]

Offensively I dont think he was bad. We kept kicking straight up and high to him when he was in a 3 on 1 and had no chance to compete. No idea where the other forwards where to leave so many defenders free though...

Defensively he was bad as was the whole team. I dont single him out as I think its a systematic problem across the middle and front half. I have more issue woth the mids who are meant to be able to be fit enough to chase

Every time he goes near the ball I say ‘just compete Joe’ and EVERYTIME he falls over, gives up the chase, flops out the side of the pack with his arms up.

There was a moment early last night where he didn’t compete, fell over - got back up didn’t chase or pressure, ball ended up in his hands and he blindly hand balled it 15 meters up the wing to avoid being tackled and it went straight to a Melbourne player who was in the move.

I just couldn’t believe it. If say Josh walker or a lesser key forward type we’ve had over the years, gave his output over the last 4-6 weeks - we would all be calling for them to be dropped and never play again.

I love joe but something needs to change, he needs to be told to ‘compete, put your body on the line, or you’ll be dropped’ and then pushed and held to that standard.

We are being rorted on output given his wage at this point in time.

 

[On the quiet]

So after knowing our defence is an issue all year, NOTHING has been done to improve it, infact - it’s worse than it’s ever been. Incredible.

So after knowing our defence is an issue all year, NOTHING has been done to improve it, infact - it’s worse than it’s ever been. Incredible.

at the ground, and no 1 v 1 just that zone defence where players hand over to another to take responsibility, and no one did. Play 1 v 1 back shoulder and if your opponent moves up the ground to take the main defender out of the game, then so be it, also takes one forward out of the attacking fifty. Love Kiddy (is a lock), but him and Rich in the same backline...

It is not losing that is making me feel very flat today, it was that the game was over after the first 20 minutes and then had to wait ages to get a taxi home. Fages has another year on his term and IF he wants to continue after that, he needs to initiate some change. Start with some assistant coaches, including the backs coach. Start playing youth, even if we drop down a little for 2023 while they develop, and bring in a quality midfielder.

 

[BlackGun1]

Don't think based on his past behaviour we should give him the benefit of the doubt tbh. I don't think a bloke starts crying based on nothing.

Never forget of being told about an incident when he was at Broadbeach when he stood over the top of a young injured player and barked in his face. Bloke had just done his knee. Don't think we should be hanging him out to dry as a human being but he has some serious white line fever issues clearly.

 

[martinson]

Having Andrews ,Gardiner and Rich on the ground at the same time leaves us totally vulnerable to opposition forwards who can get out of a jog.

Last night Neale ,Rayner and, I can't think of who else , tried to do something to snap us out of our zombie like style . So they were two who at least had a crack.

 

[Tassie4ever]

Too rough, too tough, too fast, too big, too nasty, too footy educated. Have I missed anything?

To those bagging out Zorko. Seriously- do you even watch the game? Without excusing anything he may or may not have said, he gives his all. He is not a fringe dweller, he is generally in the thick of it. Which is way more than can be said of many in our 22.

Sent from my SM-N920I using Tapatalk

 

[SizeMatters]

What a rabble. Losing Noble has come back to bite us. He was the mastermind. Remember that folks.

 

[Squizz89]

To those bagging out Zorko. Seriously- do you even watch the game? Without excusing anything he may or may not have said, he gives his all. He is not a fringe dweller, he is generally in the thick of it. Which is way more than can be said of many in our 22.

Sent from my SM-N920I using Tapatalk

There’s “being in the thick of it” and then carrying on like a complete f.arkwit. Unfortunately for our captain he crosses that line a bit to much especially for a supposed leader.

 

[On the quiet]

I bought the footy Record tonight before the game

On EVERY metric shown in the "HOW YOUR TEAM RATES" page, we had Melbourne covered (season to date)

Kicking Efficiency

BL(10) 66.6%, Melb(12) 65.37%


Centre Clearances Differential

BL(9) +0.4, Melb (11) +0.3


Shot- AT-Goal Accuracy

BL(2) 52.8%, Melb(15) 46.5%


Stoppage Clearances Differential

BL(6)+0.6 , Melb(8) +0.3

Scores Per Inside 50

BL(3) 45.4%, Melb (8) 43.2%

Pressure Factor Differential

BL(13) -2.4, Melb(16) -5.2


In tonight's game we won the I50 count by 58-50 lost the contested possessions "only" by 10 (130-14)

Stats do serve some useful analytical purpose but every time we play Melbourne they flip them almost at will. They take away our one wood ,our inside 50 efficiency and also somehow look like world beaters with their own scoring efficiency.

17 scoring shots from 58 entries(us) at a meagre 29% and 25 from 50(them ) at 50%

So what does it all mean?

To me it says two things

1) they live in our heads and they know it and we know it

AND

2) there is a failure at the match planning/ coaching level because every time we play them , it's just rinse and repeat.

I love Fages for how he led us out of the wilderness but he strikes me more as a Manager, rather than a tactician.

I have to wonder whether there is a lack of quality with Assistant Coaches and back up for Fages with match day planning.
It's obvious as well that we need an injection of some serious midfield grunt for us to seriously compete with the best 3 or 4 sides in the comp.

Ashcroft from all reports will be a ready made AFL quality mid next year but it's just too much to expect a first year player to provide the level of support that Lachie desperately needs.

Apparently Dunkley might be on the table and I think that would be an option well worth exploring

Good post. I thought I read somewhere (probably on Lions webpage) where our backs coach from memory had been with us for over 8 years and has not played VFL or AFL level. There has to be some changes even if we beat the Tigers in an elimination semi, I can't see how we get past Demons or Cats in a Prelim at the 'G', there needs to be a mini rebuild. I think the money we are saving with McStay and hopefully NOT signing Gardiner, we must get in a quality midfielder. Lyons and Rich can no longer be automatic selections we need to get some games into some of our youth, before we fall completely off the cliff.
Sunny day here in Brissy I am going for a walk