Autopsy Round 23, 2022: St.Kilda v Sydney

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Barrels said:
And when he breaks down after a couple of games?

The fact is he’s called time. He knows. The true greats usually do.

It’s over.
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Nah, he didn't call it. It's clear in his interview after the game - he says "when I got told my time was up". The club pushed him out. Personally I reckon that's a bad call, we slogged through four years with him and there's a real chance he could be a serious contributor next year - and now we give up?
 
gringo2011 said:
I seriously think we have a problem with not actual development but making players play safety first footy. Guys with flair and excitement get the dullness rubbed into them until their play risk free defensive first footy. Richo started it and it's run through to Ratts.

It's like in the game against Melbourne. We never try to find our own space, we are too busy minding out opponents......then when the game gets broken open and the system stops being adhered to we all of a sudden play our own free running footy and look a different side.

Last night was the opposite. The shackles were off early and we played fast attacking footy and apart from finishing we could have had a lead. We then tried to lock the game down and go slow again and looked s**t before finishing somewhere in between.

We are a bipolar side. We can plumb the depths of dulness or play moments of fast exciting footy but there never seems much middle ground.
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What I am really worried about is if we just don't have the players. I think McKenzie showed this year he can be pretty damaging. NWM has shown he can break lines with his kicking. Sinclair has developed into a very damaging, silky player.

But out of defence, we just don't have too many. Wilkie doesn't have an elite kick (he doesn't turn it over, but he doesn't create plays). Howard is a worry. Battle tries but is pretty hit and miss. Paton just bombs it long and is not precision. Clark is the one who can be damaging but just has not had any continuity and is probably a bit slow.

Our midfield again is pretty similar. Jones is probably the worst, but crouch and steele don't set the world on fire with their disposal (steele isn't too bad). What I would give for a player like Chad Warner - quick, damaging and contested.

I am very interested to see what we do in the off-season as it's pretty clear that Ratts is frustrated by our execution (winning the clangers 19 out of 22 games is pretty bad). Can clark get on the park consistently and find some form? Does gresham become a more permanent forward so that his disposal issues don't matter as much? Do we make a big call and move jones on? Can coffield have a good run with injury and get some confidence as he is a player that can break lines and thearetically should be a good kick? Can Mckenzie actually stay on the park? Can billings get a run at it and finally become a consistent damaging player? Is there a way to actually help players improve their disposal or do we simply need to find better players?

We supposedly might get Tanner Bruhn and we will obviously have a top 10 pick. But that isn't going to make much of a differnece. What we really need is players around the 25-26 year age bracket to really follow in the Sinclair mould. It's not impossible. Heck Mason Wood had a career best season at 28 and looks like he could actually be a good player for the next few years.
 
bergholt said:
Nah, he didn't call it. It's clear in his interview after the game - he says "when I got told my time was up". The club pushed him out. Personally I reckon that's a bad call, we slogged through four years with him and there's a real chance he could be a serious contributor next year - and now we give up?
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We have thought that every year for the past four years.

He has finished every year in the side. Every year we think that he is set up to have a good preseason and will finally be able to play consistently.

He has played 5, 8, 2 and 3 games each season. Do we have any evidence that he is actually over his body issues? If he played 10 games then maybe, but he played three games and is going to be 32 next year. How realistic is it that he is going to play 17 games next year (which would be the same amount of games he has played in 4 years)?

Or are we better off just moving on and trying to develop some kids?
 
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gringo2011 said:
I was really disappointed with his defensive efforts yesterday, perhaps his hammy was tightening up and he played through it but I'd get him away from defence. Almost inside mid or bust for me but has to start chasing when we don't have the ball.
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We dont need another halfback flank , time for him to get his act together as a midfielder if not he will be playing at Sandringham.
 
bergholt said:
Nah, he didn't call it. It's clear in his interview after the game - he says "when I got told my time was up". The club pushed him out. Personally I reckon that's a bad call, we slogged through four years with him and there's a real chance he could be a serious contributor next year - and now we give up?
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Hell, if I’m wrong, I’m wrong, but I just don’t see him going on, with us or anyone else.

It’s a shame, granted, but whaddyagunnado; we’re not the list managers, no matter how much we’d all like to be. 🤷🏻‍♂️
 
flyingmagic said:
We have thought that every year for the past four years.

He has finished every year in the side. Every year we think that he is set up to have a good preseason and will finally be able to play consistently.

He has played 5, 8, 2 and 3 games each season. Do we have any evidence that he is actually over his body issues? If he played 10 games then maybe, but he played three games and is going to be 32 next year. How realistic is it that he is going to play 17 games next year (which would be the same amount of games he has played in 4 years)?

Or are we better off just moving on and trying to develop some kids?
Click to expand...

It's a toss up but given the lack of mental strength and leadership in the group, I think it would be minimal opportunity cost to have him on the rookie list running around mostly in the twos for $200k or whatever.
 
bergholt said:
Yeah our development staff have done a fantastic job with him. When he started his kicking was pinpoint perfect, now we've finally managed to beat that out of him so he kicks it the same way everyone else does. Took half a season for us to get it done with Hill, NWM must be a bit tougher because it took him a whole season to succumb.
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NMW has been playing much more in defense since Dmac went down. As with Hilly it's just not his go and it's ruined his composure.
 
Dard Ball Get said:
What? He was going quite well until being knocked out?
Beat Heeney multiple times who then got off the leash.
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There was a patch where he turned over about 5 disposals in a row trying to clear the ball out.
 
flyingmagic said:
Brad Hill averaged 5.2 contested possessions in his last season at Fremantle.

He has averaged 2.4, 3.4 and now 4.8 CP playing for us. Not sure at any stage that we have tried to turn him into a more contested player.

The differences seem to be that his meters gained and inside 50's have dropped off. His disposal efficiency has increased but this is probably because he is taking shorter kicks.

I personally wonder if he was just overrated at Fremantle. For someone who is meant to be an elite kick, he sure does have a lot of clangers.

If we keep NWM, I can see him going past Hill pretty quickly.
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He throws himself around to look tough when at Freo he was on his bike waiting outside to take the ball and run. We use him in a way he's not suited to. We took a pure outside player and tried to turn him into something he isn't.
 

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flyingmagic said:
What I am really worried about is if we just don't have the players. I think McKenzie showed this year he can be pretty damaging. NWM has shown he can break lines with his kicking. Sinclair has developed into a very damaging, silky player.

But out of defence, we just don't have too many. Wilkie doesn't have an elite kick (he doesn't turn it over, but he doesn't create plays). Howard is a worry. Battle tries but is pretty hit and miss. Paton just bombs it long and is not precision. Clark is the one who can be damaging but just has not had any continuity and is probably a bit slow.

Our midfield again is pretty similar. Jones is probably the worst, but crouch and steele don't set the world on fire with their disposal (steele isn't too bad). What I would give for a player like Chad Warner - quick, damaging and contested.

I am very interested to see what we do in the off-season as it's pretty clear that Ratts is frustrated by our execution (winning the clangers 19 out of 22 games is pretty bad). Can clark get on the park consistently and find some form? Does gresham become a more permanent forward so that his disposal issues don't matter as much? Do we make a big call and move jones on? Can coffield have a good run with injury and get some confidence as he is a player that can break lines and thearetically should be a good kick? Can Mckenzie actually stay on the park? Can billings get a run at it and finally become a consistent damaging player? Is there a way to actually help players improve their disposal or do we simply need to find better players?

We supposedly might get Tanner Bruhn and we will obviously have a top 10 pick. But that isn't going to make much of a differnece. What we really need is players around the 25-26 year age bracket to really follow in the Sinclair mould. It's not impossible. Heck Mason Wood had a career best season at 28 and looks like he could actually be a good player for the next few years.
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Not disagreeing with what you say but I just don't buy Ratts' angle. The style of play that his team performs just does not lend itself to good kicking.
 
gringo2011 said:
There was a patch where he turned over about 5 disposals in a row trying to clear the ball out.
Click to expand...
Wasn't his best game.
But he's been very good, so we’ll forgive him.
 
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ScrappyDo said:
Not disagreeing with what you say but I just don't buy Ratts' angle. The style of play that his team performs just does not lend itself to good kicking.
Click to expand...


It's like when our midfield was light on he decided that that peak West Coast lead up mark type game plan got them a premiership despite the midfield and decided that was plan. Geelong has done it too. Nothing about the side we have says that we could copy that style. It takes composure, kicking skills, selfless experienced players who work for teammates and contested marking beasts at either end to cover for a lot of bomb kicks inside 50. Josh Kennedy and McGovern were the keys to their success. They are near irreplaceable and carried them.

We should have used the Tigers mantra of building a game an around what we have but a realistic one. We have enough good pieces to at least compete with those top 8 sides but consistency and flakiness on top of game plan are holding us back.
 
Max King kicked 52 goals this year which is a good return and the highest total since Milne kicked 56 in 2012.
 

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Autopsy Round 23, 2022: St.Kilda v Sydney

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