Autopsy Round 23, 2022: St.Kilda v Sydney

[Yawkey way]

He played some game tonight. 26 disposals at 96 de and 2 mark of the year contenders. When he's on he is absolutely awesome

As far as I know he’s never played a game like that at any level before. Whatever he did down to his jocks for gods sake don’t change a thing.

 

[gringo2011]

Definitely has it in him. Ben Long has been a victim of both himself and the way he's used. I think if he's allowed to play his natural game in a settled position, as well as keep himself checked in for a whole game and not disappear, he would be one of our most exciting players, rather than the bloke that we all want to see smashing through the opposition (though I like that about him too)

I seriously think we have a problem with not actual development but making players play safety first footy. Guys with flair and excitement get the dullness rubbed into them until their play risk free defensive first footy. Richo started it and it's run through to Ratts.

It's like in the game against Melbourne. We never try to find our own space, we are too busy minding out opponents......then when the game gets broken open and the system stops being adhered to we all of a sudden play our own free running footy and look a different side.

Last night was the opposite. The shackles were off early and we played fast attacking footy and apart from finishing we could have had a lead. We then tried to lock the game down and go slow again and looked shit before finishing somewhere in between.

We are a bipolar side. We can plumb the depths of dulness or play moments of fast exciting footy but there never seems much middle ground.

 

[AirWinmar]

Paton and Hill were football poison today

I love Battle, but he played like someone had spiked his drink today

 

[PostmanBish]

That was my concern when we drafted him, he was a very tall small forward and a lot of his goal were from snaps or dribblers and I thought he'd struggle to have the size differential and space he got at junior level. He was always a pretty ordinary set shot but he didn't take that many. He's outdone all my hopes for him.

He's been able to adjust to what ever he needs to. A great forward line coach and an individual working on set shot routine could make him the first player to have a 100 goal season in years IMO. At the moment we have a racing car that we take to do the shopping. Someone with some vision could have him being the best forward in footy. We are running him at about 10% to 20% of his potential at the moment.

He shows so many signs which should be terrifying for opposition defenders. At the moment they can also get away with mauling him, but he's still getting 5+ chances per game.

Now we just have to persuade the league to schedule all our games on Sundays, when he kicks best, and to move the GF to Sunday twilight, and we're a shoe-in for the flag! (Just kidding ... I'm backing him to figure out the prime-time yips next year and go for 80+)

 

[PostmanBish]

As far as I know he’s never played a game like that at any level before. Whatever he did down to his jocks for gods sake don’t change a thing.

Re-sign him now ... Make him watch that game on repeat all offseason while he works out ... then unleash the beast in '23.

 

[The Punter]

A number of named players were poor yesterday, but Dougal Howard

20

Dougal Howard

Age

28

Ht

199cm

Wt

94kg

Pos.

Def

Career

Season

Last 5

D

10.9

3star

K

7.8

3star

HB

3.1

3star

M

4.4

4star

T

1.4

3star

MG

176.2

3star

D

9.9

3star

K

8.4

3star

HB

1.4

1star

M

4.7

4star

T

0.6

1star

MG

171.9

3star

D

9.0

3star

K

5.4

2star

HB

3.6

3star

M

2.8

3star

T

2.8

5star

MG

133.8

3star

played one of the worst games I've ever seen someone play in a St Kilda jumper.

Long magnificent - pretty much everything we've wanted from Hill for three years. Combine the best aspects of those two players and you would have Nicky Winmar. Play Long on the wing and let him go where he wants. Rotation between him, Wood and McKenzie in that role.

Campbell very good, Marshall unsighted.

I will put this on the record - I want selfish Jack Higgins.

Dan Butler played every bit as well as he did against West Coast, proving how hard it is to be a small forward. Glad he got a goal at the end.

I loved King's game, but particularly I loved him killing Nick Blakey

22

Nick Blakey

Age

24

Ht

196cm

Wt

83kg

Pos.

Def

Career

Season

Last 5

D

9.9

3star

K

7.0

3star

HB

2.9

3star

M

2.3

2star

T

2.4

4star

MG

189.1

3star

D

8.1

2star

K

6.3

3star

HB

1.9

1star

M

2.1

2star

T

2.6

4star

MG

189.1

3star

D

7.2

2star

K

5.2

2star

HB

2.0

2star

M

1.2

2star

T

1.2

3star

for dropping into the hole. More of that please.

NWM struggled with his kicking, but he did get back to help the defence regularly, which shows he is fit enough and coachable.

If Sinclair is not AA, it will be the singular most egregious overlooking of a St Kilda player for AA ever.

 

[Dard Ball Get]

I love Battle, but he played like someone had spiked his drink today

What? He was going quite well until being knocked out?
Beat Heeney multiple times who then got off the leash.

 

[Yawkey way]

Re-sign him now ... Make him watch that game on repeat all offseason while he works out ... then unleash the beast in '23.

What a tease though, last game of the season and out of contract. We all know he has talent, hard, good skills etc. It’s been easily his best year imo, it would be very st Kilda to trade him now.

 

[Ads734]

That was my concern when we drafted him, he was a very tall small forward and a lot of his goal were from snaps or dribblers and I thought he'd struggle to have the size differential and space he got at junior level. He was always a pretty ordinary set shot but he didn't take that many. He's outdone all my hopes for him.

He's been able to adjust to what ever he needs to. A great forward line coach and an individual working on set shot routine could make him the first player to have a 100 goal season in years IMO. At the moment we have a racing car that we take to do the shopping. Someone with some vision could have him being the best forward in footy. We are running him at about 10% to 20% of his potential at the moment.

He’s legit a set shot routine away from a coleman. Think we still need another forward next to him as well. They don’t have to be super athletic just smart.

 

[AirWinmar]

Longy had been quietly building to that.
I think he only went to half back when Clark went down?
Anyway in the last month he had been playing an outside running link up role,
And as was the case with hill a year or 2 ago he just wasn’t being used,
But I have been watching him and he had been finding space and presenting well.
Seemed like a lot of the time he was first option but teammates were too slow to decide or afraid to go back towards the corridor.

He didn't get used quiet a few times yesterday as well when he was in a good spot

 

[PostmanBish]

What a tease though, last game of the season and out of contract. We all know he has talent, hard, good skills etc. It’s been easily his best year imo, it would be very st Kilda to trade him now.

Definitely his best year, and has probably been building to a game like this over the past month.

If we could get Long and DMac both at their best, consistently, we'd look a much better (and harder) team.

 

[AirWinmar]

What? He was going quite well until being knocked out?
Beat Heeney multiple times who then got off the leash.

He dropped a few marks he should have taken and seemed to turn the ball over with every kick

 

[Leigh58]

Fox Footy are really struggling aren't they. They just rotate the same dozen people through the dozen or so of their shows. Got basketballers talking football, truly bizarre. Saturated the s**t out of the game, lol.

IMO Fox Footy was never the same after the death of Clinton Grybas. (Even though he was a Collingwood supporter). He was the most unbiased, talented Footy media person I have ever heard of.
Our whole viewing experience would have been superior and more professional but for his demise; not just try hards like now.
Used to love White Line Fever with he and Terry Wallace, as well as the other shows, availability of different angles, sounds at the live broadcasts etc.
And during many of those earlier times, the saints of course were a young exciting team on the rise.
That helped of course!!

 

[MOLTEN GANGLANDS]

sinclair's on track to become on of my all time favourite saints if he keeps this up for the rest of his career. Not the numbers, but the composure, he's so good to watch, always seems a step ahead of everyone else. He had a split second tap on in the second quarter that was just has moved into dal santo territory this year

 

[MOLTEN GANGLANDS]

I love this board sometimes…

Melts all over the place over the last 48hrs about “pLaYiNg GeRiAtRiCs” at the expense of the kids…

Melts for years about the Hannebery trade cos he’s cooked…

Then Hanners has a blinder when there literally no tomorrow and he doesn’t ever have to back it up and it’s “sign him up, what’s wrong with this club?!!!”.

Amusing.

I've been saying we should resign him for a year for the past month, sure this board has different opinions that come out at different times but this is a sky news level take. "oUr BoArD iS alL ovEr tHe sHop LoL!!" ... my opinion's been consistent this whole time, as have other posters that think he doesn't deserve another year.

And saying that he doesn't have to get up for a game in a week like it changes anything? I'm pretty sure most players give their all every week. It didn't look like he was getting extra rub downs or stretching on the sidelines with the trainers but decided to push through. Just a half bake opinion from the resident cynic.

He's fit and in our top few mids. Whatever he did in germany(?) recently has clearly worked so far, and he's worth re-contracting for a year. He's exactly the kind of older player we need in regards to leadership, and I'd much prefer him on our list over Alison or Billings.

 

[St Kilda Death]

I reckon longy looked really good in defence 2020.
2021 teams worked out he had a temper they could exploit and he became a liability giving away 50s and frees within defensive arc.
So ratts moved him away.
Been really handy this year wherever he’s been used, defensively, forward pressure and running outside.
Hope he signs on.

 

[Sainttony]

Disposal eff 70.2% to 72% not to bad give us an example of poor decision making, only area they got us was stoppage clearance.

Yeah talking about dropped marks, hand passes behind the player things like that. Sydney scored at least three goals from no pressure mistakes

 

[Barrels]

I've been saying we should resign him for a year for the past month, sure this board has different opinions that come out at different times but this is a sky news level take. "oUr BoArD iS alL ovEr tHe sHop LoL!!" ... my opinion's been consistent this whole time, as have other posters that think he doesn't deserve another year.

And saying that he doesn't have to get up for a game in a week like it changes anything? I'm pretty sure most players give their all every week. It didn't look like he was getting extra rub downs or stretching on the sidelines with the trainers but decided to push through. Just a half bake opinion from the resident cynic.

He's fit and in our top few mids. Whatever he did in germany(?) recently has clearly worked so far, and he's worth re-contracting for a year. He's exactly the kind of older player we need in regards to leadership, and I'd much prefer him on our list over Alison or Billings.

And when he breaks down after a couple of games?

The fact is he’s called time. He knows. The true greats usually do.

It’s over.

 

[MOLTEN GANGLANDS]

And when he breaks down after a couple of games?

The fact is he’s called time. He knows. The true greats usually do.

It’s over.

lol sorry I didn't realise you were mrs hannebery. Watch his post match interview, he left it open. If he had called time he wouldn't have.

"... It's OvEr"

hahaha, reads like an 80s b movie action villain. Ok buddy

 

[Barrels]

lol sorry I didn't realise you were mrs hannebery. Watch his post match interview, he left it open. If he had called time he wouldn't have.

"... It's OvEr"

hahaha, reads like an 80s b movie action villain. Ok buddy

I didn’t realise you were Dan.

Jog on, muscles.

 

[John2010362340]

Few takes aways from last night:

-Howard needs to be retrained. His mindset needs to change. He has to get back to being super competitive, atm he seems way to easy to play against.
-Our 3 18 year olds are all 200+ players for us and when you get a player in, that's all you can ask for when you draft player. All 3 look like there going to have long careers.

• Marshal isn't a forward!
• Need a DeGoey type player Mid Forward with Gresh could be a very damaging duo.

-Uncontested marks isn't the way to play footy anymore.

We're not far off. We play North and West Coast twice and we play finals!

 

[SteeleSaints]

Few takes aways from last night:

-Howard needs to be retrained. His mindset needs to change. He has to get back to being super competitive, atm he seems way to easy to play against.
-Our 3 18 year olds are all 200+ players for us and when you get a player in, that's all you can ask for when you draft player. All 3 look like there going to have long careers.

• Marshal isn't a forward!
• Need a DeGoey type player Mid Forward with Gresh could be a very damaging duo.

-Uncontested marks isn't the way to play footy anymore.

We're not far off. We play North and West Coast twice and we play finals!

There is no point in playing finals, when the entire club are so out of form. You play finals with the belief that you can win the competition. We were never in that position in the 2nd half of the year, when it really counted.

 

[John2010362340]

There is no point in playing finals, when the entire club are so out of form. You play finals with the belief that you can win the competition. We were never in that position in the 2nd half of the year, when it really counted.

I disagree, you can play finals and move forward as a club the next year. The Club isn't broken i honestly think we're only a couple of pieces away.

 

[flyingmagic]

We have lost what should be a weapon and turned him to a confused and anxious mess. He should be backed to play on instinct. If we do to De Goey what we did to Snags we'll have another Hill scenario where we are off loading his contract in 2 years. Could also be argued we did it to Hill trying to turn a running outside player into a more contested player and got the worst of both worlds.

Brad Hill averaged 5.2 contested possessions in his last season at Fremantle.

He has averaged 2.4, 3.4 and now 4.8 CP playing for us. Not sure at any stage that we have tried to turn him into a more contested player.

The differences seem to be that his meters gained and inside 50's have dropped off. His disposal efficiency has increased but this is probably because he is taking shorter kicks.

I personally wonder if he was just overrated at Fremantle. For someone who is meant to be an elite kick, he sure does have a lot of clangers.

If we keep NWM, I can see him going past Hill pretty quickly.

 

[bergholt]

NWM struggled with his kicking

Yeah our development staff have done a fantastic job with him. When he started his kicking was pinpoint perfect, now we've finally managed to beat that out of him so he kicks it the same way everyone else does. Took half a season for us to get it done with Hill, NWM must be a bit tougher because it took him a whole season to succumb.