Preview Round 4, 2024: Richmond v St.Kilda - Norwood Oval, Sunday 7th April, 3:20PM AEST *GATHER ROUND*

[Hubnester]

Game Day - Round 4, 2024: Richmond v St.Kilda - Norwood Oval, Sunday 7th April, 3:20PM AEST *GATHER ROUND*

https://www.afl.com.au/afl/matches/5931 Gather round in Adelaide. Time for a Candy Strike Comeback after a disappointing performance last week

www.bigfooty.com

 

[SteeleSaints]

Yeah I don't think we've seen much to suggest players are being mismanaged at this stage.
Wasn't sure that Crouch re-injured, I took that to be that playing at Sandy was to 'test' it out before deciding whether we needed to send him for surgery? Could be mistaken.

I think it's just terrible timing exacerbated by silly suspensions and an unusual fixture to start the year. Have had zero chance to settle with constant personnel changes and playing at sideshow venues like geelong and norwood

Look I am a huge RTB supporter also, but the club simply arent getting their player load and injury management right! Surely after 2 years of having 10-16 players out injured this highlights there is a problem?

The manner the club handled Crouch was amateurish and reeked of desparation. Blind Freddy could see he wasnt moving well against North in the practice game, then to play him against Geelong was a horrible decision. That decision was compounded by not subbing him out of the game when he could hardly run. Then they roll him out the following week in the VFL and only then realise he needs surgical intervention, its park footy stuff!

In each of his games Mason Wood looked like he was running in 'gum boots' I have no doubt he was playing heavily fatigued, which lead to his eventual clumsy injury. Some injuries are contact related but again most occur when players are fatigued and not totally switched on. Howard and Henry did high grade hamstrings again fatigue related. Henry had never done a hamstring before guess what - arriving at St Kilda.

People can ignore the evidence and defend the club and RTB as much as they like, but I have never been a 'head in the sand' supporter.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

Look I am a huge RTB supporter also, but the club simply arent getting their player load and injury management right! Surely after 2 years of having 12-16 players out injured this highlights there is a problem?

The manner the club handled Crouch was amateurish and reeked of desparation. Blind Freddy could see he wasnt moving well against North in the practice game, then to play him against Geelong was a horrible decision. That decision was compounded by not subbing him out of the game when he could hardly run. Then they roll him out the following week in the VFL and only then realise he needs surgical intervention, its park footy stuff!

In each of his games Mason Wood looked like he was running in 'gum boots' I have no doubt he was playing heavily fatigued, which lead to his eventual clumsy injury. Some injuries are contact related but again most occur when players are fatigued and not totally switched on. Howard and Henry did high grade hamstrings again fatigue related. Henry had never done a hamstring before guess what - arriving at St Kilda.

People can ignore the evidence and defend the club and RTB as much as they like, but I'm not being 'head in the sand' supporter.

Garbage , there is nothing in this clash you can relate to fatigue.

 

[StFly]

Reinjured before round 1.

Ross backs in senior pros to say if they are fit to go. Crouch said yes for round 1.

Sandy was a demotion to test it out.

Couldn’t go and pulled at half time.

More Gehrig than Crouch since RA and pull the pin on contact sports, but... re knees, since I had at last check 17% cartilage left in my left one to state "well aware of bone bruising and how knees can function under loading of owpainplsstop".

You can feel 100% because you manage things, you can ramp and suddenly it's not bad because adrenaline gives a dopamine rush to your pain receptors, but then in my case for example;

I went to eh cricket nets.
I ran in.
I landed to bowl a ball.
It felt like my right shoulder went with it and my right leg went "nope" and I hobbled home.

My right arm at that point was utterly useless for about 8 hours, couldn't hold anything, couldn't really move it much, it was just pain all throughout. Knee wise on my left, if I am kneeling and that gets bone on bone, I faceplant and wince as the pain is that great to reflex a half stand all the way back down with force to curl into a ball.

So yeah tldr, I don't blame Crouch for saying all good, putting that under load and having second guesses, just as I didn't blame Gehrig for coming back, lasting what a quarter and a bit and then retiring again. When you deal with this consistently, it's a shit existence, and mentally, it taxes you something shocking, so you take the small wins when you get them.

I do blame the club re Crouch for not seeing the way he was doing things and pulling that plug though. I mean I got told to sit TF down, so I don't see why he should be any different...

 

[akaifu]

Look I am a huge RTB supporter also, but the club simply arent getting their player load and injury management right! Surely after 2 years of having 12-16 players out injured this highlights there is a problem?

The manner the club handled Crouch was amateurish and reeked of desparation. Blind Freddy could see he wasnt moving well against North in the practice game, then to play him against Geelong was a horrible decision. That decision was compounded by not subbing him out of the game when he could hardly run. Then they roll him out the following week in the VFL and only then realise he needs surgical intervention, is park footy stuff!

In each of his games Mason Wood looked like he was running in 'gum boots' I have no doubt he was playing heavily fatigued, which lead to his eventual clumsy injury. Some injuries are contact related but again most occur when players are fatigued and not totally switched on. Howard and Henry did high grade hamstrings again fatigue related. Henry had never done a hamstring before guess what - arriving at St Kilda.

People can ignore the evidence and defend the club and RTB as much as they like, but I'm not being 'head in the sand' supporter.

Absolutely no way you can assume that 'fatigue' can be remotely close to being related to Wood's injury. He does that sort of stuff in the air 5 times per game but just got unlucky that he was hit on the worst possible angle in this case. Are you going to blame fatigue for D-Mac's injury in 2022 vs Lions where it was exactly the same situation?

You're clutching at straws here.

 

[SteeleSaints]

Absolutely no way you can assume that 'fatigue' can be remotely close to being related to Wood's injury. He does that sort of stuff in the air 5 times per game but just got unlucky that he got tunneled in this case. Are you going to blame fatigue for D-Mac's injury in 2022 vs Lions where it was exactly the same situation?

You're clutching at straws here.

 

[saintmike65]

Didn't he average a goal a game last year?

His ball drop is an issue, same with Higgins and Caminiti

 

[Hubnester]

Look I am a huge RTB supporter also, but the club simply arent getting their player load and injury management right! Surely after 2 years of having 10-16 players out injured this highlights there is a problem?

The manner the club handled Crouch was amateurish and reeked of desparation. Blind Freddy could see he wasnt moving well against North in the practice game, then to play him against Geelong was a horrible decision. That decision was compounded by not subbing him out of the game when he could hardly run. Then they roll him out the following week in the VFL and only then realise he needs surgical intervention, its park footy stuff!

In each of his games Mason Wood looked like he was running in 'gum boots' I have no doubt he was playing heavily fatigued, which lead to his eventual clumsy injury. Some injuries are contact related but again most occur when players are fatigued and not totally switched on. Howard and Henry did high grade hamstrings again fatigue related. Henry had never done a hamstring before guess what - arriving at St Kilda.

People can ignore the evidence and defend the club and RTB as much as they like, but I have never been a 'head in the sand' supporter.

Sorry but this isn't to do with being a supporter, just look at the responses on the previous page and try to look at the situation critically.
You're making a lot of weird assumptions, I think instead of accusing everyone else of having their heads in the sand you might do well to sit back and think about it without the emotion.

 

[BrutThough]

Didn't he average a goal a game last year?

A large amount of his goal were close to the goal square so the ball drop wouldnt have been much of an issue.

 

[The Punter]

Crouch didn't play in the practice matches.

 

[seasonedsainter]

Giving the young fella's more than a quarter might be nice.

 

[stavro#4]

Look I am a huge RTB supporter also, but the club simply arent getting their player load and injury management right! Surely after 2 years of having 10-16 players out injured this highlights there is a problem?

The manner the club handled Crouch was amateurish and reeked of desparation. Blind Freddy could see he wasnt moving well against North in the practice game, then to play him against Geelong was a horrible decision. That decision was compounded by not subbing him out of the game when he could hardly run. Then they roll him out the following week in the VFL and only then realise he needs surgical intervention, its park footy stuff!

In each of his games Mason Wood looked like he was running in 'gum boots' I have no doubt he was playing heavily fatigued, which lead to his eventual clumsy injury. Some injuries are contact related but again most occur when players are fatigued and not totally switched on. Howard and Henry did high grade hamstrings again fatigue related. Henry had never done a hamstring before guess what - arriving at St Kilda.

People can ignore the evidence and defend the club and RTB as much as they like, but I have never been a 'head in the sand' supporter.

King shoulder
Membrey knee + personal issues
Howard Knee
Steele collarbone
Wood collarbone/Shoulder

Which major injury last year is the fault of training load here?


Similar to right now, we have 3 of our injured list as soft tissue. The rest are impact injuries.

Head looks firmly in the sand if you believe the above was because the players weren’t managed and fatigued?

Re Crouch. If your senior player says he is good to go. As long as he ticks off training, you back him in.

He went from AFL football to surgery with VFL in between within 8 days.

 

[stavro#4]

Giving the young fella's more than a quarter might be nice.

Is this because you want to see more of them or because you think the club managed them wrong?

I hate having debutants as sub. But in this current situation with 12 players unavailable that would be contending for spots in the 22 each week. I do understand it.

 

[SaintyMcSaintface]

A large amount of his goal were close to the goal square so the ball drop wouldnt have been much of an issue.

He was brilliant last year on the run. Terrible set shot.

 

[seasonedsainter]

Is this because you want to see more of them or because you think the club managed them wrong?

I hate having debutants as sub. But in this current situation with 12 players unavailable that would be contending for spots in the 22 each week. I do understand it.

It's simply becuase of how much TOG Hastie and Collard got. I'd prefer to see "proper" debuts, give the kids a run at a full game.

 

[seasonedsainter]

Collard not far off Butler's spot you'd think. I'd imagine Butler gets another go or two though. Will be an interesting one. Best thing for us would be Butler to rediscover career best.

 

[The Cobra]

Wasn’t that focussed at training today because my phone rang a 1000 times! - but did catch Owens kicking for goal today - looked very good & nicely balanced & seemed to thread plenty - just wonder whether it’s as much mental on game day as it is his actual ball drop.

I think RTB was talking to him at the end when he was still practicing when most had gone inside.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

Wasn’t that focussed at training today because my phone rang a 1000 times! - but did catch Owens kicking for goal today - looked very good & nicely balanced & seemed to thread plenty - just wonder whether it’s as much mental on game day as it is his actual ball drop.

I think RTB was talking to him at the end when he was still practicing when most had gone inside.

I remember back when Richo was full forward for Richmond.
They came out before the game, other players were kicking the ball around warming up, Richo was doing pushups.
Later they spoke to him about it, and he's like ...
"I practise kicking at training, i put them through, its not like i need more practice, i can kick the ball before the game and it'll go through.
With the push ups i thought i'd just do something different. "

https://www.news.com.au/sport/afl/richos-tips-for-dealing-with-the-yips/news-story/37513b71c4c8407691b87f9a79487cea

 

[Joffaboy]

Fatigued 15 minutes into the first qtr.

Yeah ok mate

On SM-S908E using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[sauce_head]

If Hill's hand is broken, we need to just stick a glove on it and jab it up. He'll be fine.

I’d hate for his beautifully safe set of hands to be less certain…

 

[SteeleSaints]

Fatigued 15 minutes into the first qtr.

Yeah ok mate

On SM-S908E using BigFooty.com mobile app

Yep simply because he wasnt coping with the training loads...fatigue is not just a game day thing.

 

[The_Steadier]

Look I am a huge RTB supporter also, but the club simply arent getting their player load and injury management right! Surely after 2 years of having 10-16 players out injured this highlights there is a problem?

The manner the club handled Crouch was amateurish and reeked of desparation. Blind Freddy could see he wasnt moving well against North in the practice game, then to play him against Geelong was a horrible decision. That decision was compounded by not subbing him out of the game when he could hardly run. Then they roll him out the following week in the VFL and only then realise he needs surgical intervention, its park footy stuff!

In each of his games Mason Wood looked like he was running in 'gum boots' I have no doubt he was playing heavily fatigued, which lead to his eventual clumsy injury. Some injuries are contact related but again most occur when players are fatigued and not totally switched on. Howard and Henry did high grade hamstrings again fatigue related. Henry had never done a hamstring before guess what - arriving at St Kilda.

People can ignore the evidence and defend the club and RTB as much as they like, but I have never been a 'head in the sand' supporter.

On the upside- the injured players are b graders at best and we aren't anywhere near flag contention with our list even if they were all fit....

So no harm, no foul?

Even with zero injuries we are battling it out for ~6th spot at best with our current list.

I don't really care about our (suspect?) injury management causing us to instead be battling it out for ~8th spot at best.

 

[malevu]

Sharman has been trained last year at Sandy to play the way Wood does. He's physically the closest to Wood.

And why is it so important to replicate Wood? Because we win when Wood plays and don't when he doesn't.

Since he arrived at RSEA Park:

St Kilda when Wood plays: 31-23
St Kilda when Wood doesn't play: 4-13

Last St Kilda win without Mason Wood: Round 23, 2021

Nice stat.

 

[SteeleSaints]

King shoulder
Membrey knee + personal issues
Howard Knee
Steele collarbone
Wood collarbone/Shoulder

Which major injury last year is the fault of training load here?


Similar to right now, we have 3 of our injured list as soft tissue. The rest are impact injuries.

Head looks firmly in the sand if you believe the above was because the players weren’t managed and fatigued?

Re Crouch. If your senior player says he is good to go. As long as he ticks off training, you back him in.

He went from AFL football to surgery with VFL in between within

Top players run 15-16kms a game and mostly at speed. I dont know what km's they do in training, but just imagine backing up to train or play after running a half marathon.

Fixture fatigue: What happens mentally and physically to players when the games pile up

With a crowded fixture list due to the World Cup and now postponements, experts explain the impact on players mentally and physically

theathletic.com

Jackson: “If you expose fast-twitch muscle fibres to high, intense loads, they will become damaged more easily and will take longer to recover. The ability to perform at high speeds and high intensity diminishes. If you’re then asked to reproduce that force every few days then, ultimately, there’s a risk of muscle injury — particularly for those fast-twitch type of players.

“If the muscle doesn’t fail, you can also get central nervous system fatigue for all of these guys. This leads to a higher risk of poor motor control and therefore risk of joint injury. For example, we might see an increase in anterior cruciate ligament (ACL knee) injuries, purely because of a fatigued player not putting their foot in the right position and not being able to adapt and react quickly enough. So that’s where joint injuries may well go up.”

 

[malevu]

We had a sizable injury list in 2007 too, so I was willing to overlook last year's injury list as the required side-effect of the way the players needed to train to undertake RL's playing method.

This year I am less inclined to excuse. Howard, Henry, & Clark all with significant "unusual" soft-tissue injuries.

Check out 2009. RTB as Coach and Misson as High Performance Manager (or similar). Don't think we had one soft tissue injury for the year and we had the lightest injury list in the comp. Admittedly that's not Misson's rule now but he'd still have to be all over it.

I can't believe it's any more than bad luck. Or maybe we were lucky back in 2009!

 

[stfan]

Sharman has been trained last year at Sandy to play the way Wood does. He's physically the closest to Wood.

And why is it so important to replicate Wood? Because we win when Wood plays and don't when he doesn't.

Since he arrived at RSEA Park:

St Kilda when Wood plays: 31-23
St Kilda when Wood doesn't play: 4-13

Last St Kilda win without Mason Wood: Round 23, 2021

So I assume that is:

St Kilda when Wood plays: 23 wins from 31 games
St Kilda when Wood doesn't play: 4 wins from 13 games


Or is that 31 wins from 23 games!