Preview Round 4, 2024: Richmond v St.Kilda - Norwood Oval, Sunday 7th April, 3:20PM AEST *GATHER ROUND*

[Hubnester]

Game Day - Round 4, 2024: Richmond v St.Kilda - Norwood Oval, Sunday 7th April, 3:20PM AEST *GATHER ROUND*

https://www.afl.com.au/afl/matches/5931 Gather round in Adelaide. Time for a Candy Strike Comeback after a disappointing performance last week

www.bigfooty.com

 

[BrutThough]

How many were kick outs?

4, so not the majority of his disposals.

 

[Ricmel]

Even with out best 22 Available we were never in contention, we are in the midst of significant rebuild and well off top 4 pace until at least 2026...and that prediction assumes the list rebuild is successful in the mean time.

To add to this dose of reality, when you look at the Port v Essendon game last night and that Port Adelaide midfield just coming into its' prime, you realise how far off the pace we are. Right now, Swans, Port, Dees, Freo and Carlton are clearly better teams than Saints and there are a few in the mix with us in that second layer.

This game (like last week!) is a must win. If we are to sneak into finals we have to beat teams like Tigers and Essendon. They are supposed to be rated lower than us.

 

[BrutThough]

To add to this dose of reality, when you look at the Port v Essendon game last night and that Port Adelaide midfield just coming into its' prime, you realise how far off the pace we are. Right now, Swans, Port, Dees, Freo and Carlton are clearly better teams than Saints and there are a few in the mix with us in that second layer.

This game (like last week!) is a must win. If we are to sneak into finals we have to beat teams like Tigers and Essendon. They are supposed to be rated lower than us.

Maybe Freo end up better than us but sneaking them in with a bunch of last years finalists because they beat a winless Adelaide and North is a bit much.

 

[Ricmel]

Maybe Freo end up better than us but sneaking them in with a bunch of last years finalists because they beat a winless Adelaide and North is a bit much.

To be honest, there are probably a few clubs you could put in that top bracket - I left Pies and Lions out for example. It was not meant to be a forensic assessment of Saints vs ?.......just a statement that we are not challenging for top 4, we are in a group of mid rung clubs, could finish 14th, could finish 6th and the difference will be do we beat the teams we should beat. Lose tomorrow and that is 8 points we have dropped in the first 4 rounds.

 

[BrutThough]

To be honest, there are probably a few clubs you could put in that top bracket - I left Pies and Lions out for example. It was not meant to be a forensic assessment of Saints vs ?.......just a statement that we are not challenging for top 4, we are in a group of mid rung clubs, could finish 14th, could finish 6th and the difference will be do we beat the teams we should beat. Lose tomorrow and that is 8 points we have dropped in the first 4 rounds.

We probably dont make top 4 or challenge for it but last year, 2 teams who made a prelims had 4 and 5 wins at the midpoint of the season.

There is still 5 months of the season left. We dont need to rush and put the seasons fortunes onto games we play in March/April with a depleted team.

 

[The Jack]

No one echos your opinions because they are wrong. Watched the game live at the ground and the replay. Bonner was abhorrent.
But the decision to keep letting him take kick outs was worse.
32 disposals doesn’t mean much when the majority are kick outs.

Essendon kicked 11 points and he didn’t take every kick out. I wouldn’t say the majority of his 32 were from kick out. Factually wrong by a long long way.

The hate for him in here is quite amazing tbh.

 

[Diehard Saint]

As many as we have had can negatively impact team performance, and yes individual performance too. Last week we reached a tipping point when we played 7 young players that we have drafted over thar the last three years. Great for the future, but it hurts you now. Given our suspension and injuries we had no other choice .

Look at North at present. Oodles of quality young players, but with the right balance in age and experience they are struggling. Young teams struggle to play well enough for long enough in games. We saw that against the Dons.

This is made worse as we have players like Sincs and Butler also playing who are not match-fit and match practiced yet. They are underdone.


That all results in mistakes and extra pressure. Team performance drops.

Players like Wilson who might thrive in a good team, then struggle when everyone is under the pump. Players like Owens now cop use attention, and likewise struggle to have the same impact.

No idea what happened to Wilkie last week, but his sound marking disappeared. We can only hope that it was a one game aberration.



Now this week against the Tigers it will be interesting, as the Tigers like us are missing key players, and are playing a lot of kids and underdone players.

Your first paragraph is correct - however bar the errant goal kicking
(not only from the young players) and despite Sincs, Wilkie and Butler not at their best, we should have won that quite convincingly anyway.
That’s the frustration.

 

[pebblesofsand]

Even with out best 22 Available we were never in contention, we are in the midst of significant rebuild and well off top 4 pace until at least 2026...and that prediction assumes the list rebuild is successful in the mean time.

Simply not true. Finished 6th last year after an incredibly disruptive start to the year injury wise.

And we are not in the midst of a significant rebuild. We are turning over our list at pretty much the same rate as every other club in the league.

 

[seasonedsainter]

I think we should play that Norwood bowling lawn pretty well tbh.

 

[bergholt]

The hate for him in here is quite amazing tbh.

He’s a hard guy to love. Very outside player, not particularly defensive, bites off tough kicks which means he misses his share. Might become a cult hero but will take time.

 

[SteeleSaints]

To add to this dose of reality, when you look at the Port v Essendon game last night and that Port Adelaide midfield just coming into its' prime, you realise how far off the pace we are. Right now, Swans, Port, Dees, Freo and Carlton are clearly better teams than Saints and there are a few in the mix with us in that second layer.

This game (like last week!) is a must win. If we are to sneak into finals we have to beat teams like Tigers and Essendon. They are supposed to be rated lower than us.

Couldnt agree more.

Port are a club who realise the importance of a gun midfield, and apart from Horne-Francs they drafted them all. Its the benefit of having a high functioning list management group for years. They traded out players they saw as excess and worked into drafts where they identified the midfield talent they wanted. They then traded for the players they wanted to fill holes, they seem a very well run club.

 

[stavro#4]

Simply not true. Finished 6th last year after an incredibly disruptive start to the year injury wise.

And we are not in the midst of a significant rebuild. We are turning over our list at pretty much the same rate as every other club in the league.

Actually the amount of sub 50 gamers and under 23s we are playing most weeks lines up more along the profiles of West Coast North and Hawthorn.

Well below AFL average at current aswell.

This has been the same these for the last 12 months. So this notion from any supporter that we should be contending or pushing the top 4 is wild.

Understand that injuries impact what we are rolling out at any point under RTB v2, however it’s very clear which clubs see themselves in contention and which are building.

We are the latter and not the former.

 

[Armitage2Riewoldt]

Actually the amount of sub 50 gamers and under 23s we are playing most weeks lines up more along the profiles of West Coast North and Hawthorn.

Well below AFL average at current aswell.

This has been the same these for the last 12 months. So this notion from any supporter that we should be contending or pushing the top 4 is wild.

Understand that injuries impact what we are rolling out at any point under RTB v2, however it’s very clear which clubs see themselves in contention and which are building.

We are the latter and not the former.

View attachment 1951319

What I'm taking out of that is the Giants sure know how to build a list... 2016, 2019, 2023 looking like adding another solid finish this year.

A good 'see how we compare' next week. Hopefully get a couple back from injury for the game.

 

[ScrappyDo]

Actually the amount of sub 50 gamers and under 23s we are playing most weeks lines up more along the profiles of West Coast North and Hawthorn.

Well below AFL average at current aswell.

This has been the same these for the last 12 months. So this notion from any supporter that we should be contending or pushing the top 4 is wild.

Understand that injuries impact what we are rolling out at any point under RTB v2, however it’s very clear which clubs see themselves in contention and which are building.

We are the latter and not the former.

View attachment 1951319

Have you got that for best 22/3?

 

[Armitage2Riewoldt]

Have you got that for best 22/3?

Footywire gives a breakdown for every game. Here's GWS v Eagles (paints a bleak picture for the eagles....)



Us v Essendon

 

[pebblesofsand]

Actually the amount of sub 50 gamers and under 23s we are playing most weeks lines up more along the profiles of West Coast North and Hawthorn.

Well below AFL average at current aswell.

This has been the same these for the last 12 months. So this notion from any supporter that we should be contending or pushing the top 4 is wild.

Understand that injuries impact what we are rolling out at any point under RTB v2, however it’s very clear which clubs see themselves in contention and which are building.

We are the latter and not the former.

View attachment 1951319

I'm not sure what you are trying to prove here. Yeah - so we've had a lot of injuries that ended up requiring us to select young players but it doesn't change the fact that we still finished 6th last year.

And I'm sure you would concede that our list is considerably better this year than last (and we could have been 3 - 0 with a ounce of injury or suspension luck this year) so I for one can't understand why anyone would think that Top 4 was totally out of the question at the start of the season.

Peeps will wet themselves about Connor Rozee but the reality is that both Mitch Owens and Marcus Windhager are actually tracking as well as him at the same age as him so its not unrealistic to expect that one of those (or Liam Henry, Phillipou or Dow) to make a similar jump to becoming a gun player for the Saints.

 

[stavro#4]

I'm not sure what you are trying to prove here. Yeah - so we've had a lot of injuries that ended up requiring us to select young players but it doesn't change the fact that we still finished 6th last year.

And I'm sure you would concede that our list is considerably better this year than last (and we could have been 3 - 0 with a ounce of injury or suspension luck this year) so I for one can't understand why anyone would think that Top 4 was totally out of the question at the start of the season.

Peeps will wet themselves about Connor Rozee but the reality is that both Mitch Owens and Marcus Windhager are actually tracking as well as him at the same age as him so its not unrealistic to expect that one of those (or Liam Henry, Phillipou or Dow) to make a similar jump to becoming a gun player for the Saints.

If you believe we are a true top 4 contending side. Your head is in the clouds.

Thats not a knock on our kids. That’s merely looking at it realistically and thinking we need abit more and definitely need more time in the oven.

We are on the right track but supporters need to align themselves with reality and not fantasy.

We are not a top 4 side. We could see an improvement and finish below 6th.

If we finished in the top 4. Then a lot of things went right as opposed to being where we should be based on quality of list.

 

[ScrappyDo]

Footywire gives a breakdown for every game. Here's GWS v Eagles (paints a bleak picture for the eagles....)

View attachment 1951365

Us v Essendon


View attachment 1951369

Cheers. Yeah the Weagles are in real trouble for a long time. Crows looked stuffed and Hawks not far behind. Rebuilds are a tricky thing.
Cats and Pies will hit the skids as Tassie come in too. It's great stuff.

 

[stavro#4]

Have you got that for best 22/3?

Footywire does game by game.

What I posted was a culmination of the season thus far for games played by each side.

 

[Circus]

Geez it’s hard work listening to the commentators on seven talk about how good the dons were last week. They literally stumbled over the line again a team missed 8 starting players. Spare me

It is such hard work listening to the channel 7 commentators talk about anything that I've taken to listening to ABC radio synced to Kayo streaming. I love footy but these absolute tossers completely ruin it.

Channel 7 must believe these "voices" appeal to their demographic to justify their superficial, tabloid approach to a complex game. Considering channel 7's judgement, behaviour and ethics in recent years regarding Ben Roberts-Smith and Bruce Lehrmann, for instance, it is now quite apparent they understand very little and care even less.

 

[pebblesofsand]

If you believe we are a true top 4 contending side. Your head is in the clouds.

Thats not a knock on our kids. That’s merely looking at it realistically and thinking we need abit more and definitely need more time in the oven.

We are on the right track but supporters need to align themselves with reality and not fantasy.

We are not a top 4 side. We could see an improvement and finish below 6th.

If we finished in the top 4. Then a lot of things went right as opposed to being where we should be based on quality of list.

I venture that most teams who finish in the Top 4 have "a lot of things go right".

And I also know that not many teams who finish in the Top 4 have significant parts of their structure unavailable for long periods during the season.

Last year we had very little go right and finished 6th, this year we have a much better list and if a lot of things did go right (unfortunately that doesn't look likely ATM) only a pessimist would suggest that weren't a Top 4 possibility at the start of the season.

If it was only down to "list quality", the eventually premier would be self evident at the start of every season.

 

[ScrappyDo]

I venture that most teams who finish in the Top 4 have "a lot of things go right".

And I also know that not many teams who finish in the Top 4 have significant parts of their structure unavailable for long periods during the season.

Last year we had very little go right and finished 6th, this year we have a much better list and if a lot of things did go right (unfortunately that doesn't look likely ATM) only a pessimist would could suggest that weren't a Top 4 possibility at the start of the season.

If it was only down to "list quality", the eventually premier would be self evident at the start of every season.

Actually we had a lot go right.
Superior fitness got us wins up until the bye.
We found Hammer out of nowhere.
Chito blazzed onto the scene, as did Nas.
Battle stepped up, as did Stocker.
Crouch had his best year, as did Ro and Hill.
Then we got mega lucky with other potential top 8 sides shitting the bed in the last 3 rounds to let us keep our spot.

This year has not been so kind.

 

[Ricmel]

So this notion from any supporter that we should be contending or pushing the top 4 is wild.


View attachment 1951319

For 12 years we have been pushing the hope that our young talent will deliver. There was the Billings, Acres and McCartin era, then the Clark, Coffield messiahs. Now it is a another bunch of youngsters (who do look better). It is not about the list we have and "contending" now. It is about the list we should have and be contending with. Not been a serious threat to top 4 since 2010.

Barring North Melbourne, all of GWS, Freo, Adelaide, Eagles, Sydney and Hawthorn above have had top 4 stints in last 12 years and reasonable cracks at a flag. Most of them should be in rebuild/youth mode. We in fact shouldn't be.

Some of us do not have time to wait until we finally "get it right".

 

[beside the seaside]

Actually we had a lot go right.
Superior fitness got us wins up until the bye.
We found Hammer out of nowhere.
Chito blazzed onto the scene, as did Nas.
Battle stepped up, as did Stocker.
Crouch had his best year, as did Ro and Hill.
Then we got mega lucky with other potential top 8 sides shitting the bed in the last 3 rounds to let us keep our spot.

This year has not been so kind.

The years barely started though. I feel we'll have a better idea of where we are at in a few weeks. If we lose this game then we're likely not a top eight side. But if we get a couple of wins over the next few weeks we'll be looking good.

 

[stavro#4]

I venture that most teams who finish in the Top 4 have "a lot of things go right".

And I also know that not many teams who finish in the Top 4 have significant parts of their structure unavailable for long periods during the season.

Last year we had very little go right and finished 6th, this year we have a much better list and if a lot of things did go right (unfortunately that doesn't look likely ATM) only a pessimist would suggest that weren't a Top 4 possibility at the start of the season.

If it was only down to "list quality", the eventually premier would be self evident at the start of every season.

It’s not very often a club performs significantly better then the entire landscape of AFL media predicts 2 years running.

Most have us correctly placed now. Upper echelons of the bottom 10 or bottom part of the top 8.

We won’t be as good as the top 4 sides consistently yet.

Need more time. Need more pieces.

For 12 years we have been pushing the hope that our young talent will deliver. There was the Billings, Acres and McCartin era, then the Clark, Coffield messiahs. Now it is an another bunch of youngsters (who do look better). It is not about the list we have and "contending" now. It is about the list we should have and be contending with. Not been a serious threat to top 4 since 2010.

Barring North Melbourne, all of GWS, Freo, Adelaide, Eagles, Sydney and Hawthorn above have had top 4 stints in last 12 years and reasonable cracks at a flag. Most of them should be in rebuild/youth mode. We in fact shouldn't be.

Some of us do not have time to wait until we finally "get it right".

I think it’s very evident that we are rebuilding on the fly.

Hope is getting created side by side a decent product to watch on the field.

The man himself keeps telling the fans he wants to keep playing youth.

It doesn’t mean you have to ground zero rebuild and for many a year clubs like Geelong & Sydney achieved competitiveness and finals - whilst developing their youth.

You are seeing that with us.

Just because it doesn’t fit your timeline doesn’t mean they are on the right track.