Autopsy Round 7, 2019: GWS v St.Kilda

[CaptainRisky]

Hind

Elite , Really, so he is elite and cant get a game

 

[gringo2011]

lol
Yeah, righto
Acres at ledger level
Ive heard it all now

Ledger was a funny one, he was a good VFL player and looked likely. I used to hear stories about him being a flog and stuff so wouldn't get games. I think we probably mismanaged him a bit. Probably a bit messy with disposal but he could accumulate touches. Acres is the opposite to him, he seems to not accumulate enough and goes missing at times, when he does stuff it looks like artistry though. I reckon he's probably at a cross roads with his career, he can go from a promising player to a gun or a promising player that could have been something in the state leagues.

 

[BrutThough]

Dunny would literally blow up like a balloon and pop. He can hardly run out a game as is. Steele is actually pretty poor without an opponent, he seems to get a bit lost but minding players drags him to the ball. We need Hanners back playing and to get a long term injury to access the mid season draft and pick up a high possession inside mid.

You're really under estimating Dunstan there. Not nearly as much of a 'slow plodder' as people think he is. His time on ground is low but he has the ability to play much higher minutes, and in that form of stretch he hit 2017-18 he was playing closer to 80% game time until he hurt his shoulder. He has also done some good jobs in the past. By giving him a defined role, it would give him more of a purpose in the midfield and help simplify it for him.

While Steele has struggled in the past without an opponent, he isn't impacting games as much as he did at the end of last year right now by following an opponent. We took him off Cogs in the 2nd half yesterday and Steele was still able to get the ball. And right now when we basically only have 2 quality midfielders in the team, having Steele following an opponent all day isnt helping us win the ball. Steele also didn't tagged during JLT and got fantastic numbers just finding the ball on his own.

 

[kernelT]

Josh Bruce must giggle when he sees his pay cheque each week.

 

[Persevering Saint]

If we can’t beat the top teams, playing finals are irrelevant.

Crikey, a third of the team we'd hope to play finals is out, and they'd replace players who should still be honing their craft at Sandy.

 

[Browny2Carlisle]

For those making excuses... name the elite ball users on our list.

Carlisle, Roberton, hanneberry, McCartin

 

[PoppedCorn]

Yeah great point - well thought out!!!!

ST KILDA

Player Injury Estimated Return
Logan Austin Shoulder Indefinite
Jack Bytel Back Season
Jake Carlisle Back Indefinite
Oscar Clavarino Ankle 1-2 weeks
Jarryn Geary Quad Indefinite
Dan Hannebery Hamstring/calves Indefinite
Max King Knee 1-2 weeks
Jack Lonie Knee 8-10 weeks
Paddy McCartin Concussion Indefinite
Lewis Pierce Concussion Test
Dylan Roberton Heart Season

Id start 7 of those
But lets melt like **** over having a third of the list injured and getting beat by the side who had picks 1 3 5 7 9 11 13 15 in a great draft even though we had the chance to be only 10 points down with momentum because we hit the post
Jesus h christ

Relax everyone
No one expected a flag this year, hell not too many picked us for finals and even those that did, it was out of blind stupid loyalty and a choice to be positive like myself.
We have massive injuries
Chb in snake, our next sam fisher in robbo, our capt who is the general down there and is so under rated on here by some its not funny...just have a watch and see him organize the back line and watch the little things, not every capt is scott pendleburry accumulating touches delivering into F50 ffs.
Next our top draft pick has a knee...gee rekon he might be getting a gig atm if not injured, would expect a few to be bagging him too if he didnt kick five a game
Bytel gonna be a rocket, have patience on the kid, backs take time...we should know this huh, jake anyone??
Hanners imo is a bust and its the one thing im neg on but if he can get those legs right thats instant gun mid...instant...
Il eat my words like they're free jelly beans
Lonie, playing out his skin looks to be the most desperate on the field to tackle harass and be a general pest...really rate him
Bruce playing not right we can all see it.

So do we all thinj we wouldve playing the same brand and effort with those blokes in?
3 gun backs, 2 mids, a forward who is gonna be a gun as well and a pest
Plus stuvvy
8 first starters...

Fmd guys
Cmon
Instead we are comparing acres to ledger
Yes acres was ordinary yesterday, could we name anyone else in that same box ??
How did gresh the messiah go?
Billings?

If you were a supervisor and your best floor workers were all on sick leave would you exepct the same output?
Would your KPIs get met??
**** know
Youd get pantsed

We all live and breathe it
We are all die hard
But guys
Injuries is rhe number one reason teams dont get wins

 

[Yawkey way]

I hate being a Saints fan, we are doomed to have the player straight after every pick we take look 10 times better ta the one we selected.

He was the right pick for them because they have an established quality midfield and had father son picks to add to it.

It’s stating the obvious to say we need some quality mids but seriously if you do a stocktake on the St Kilda list we’re not that bad. People forget that some players will never be heavy lifters but have plenty to offer as the support cast.
I look at the saints list and think about what I’ve seen from some of these players and how I’d use them assuming we have a full list. Posters didn’t like my comments on Billings and Gresham but I stick by it, they could form part of a premiership winning forward line as elite high production players who can rotate through the midfield. I don’t mind them getting midfield minutes in this team but that’s not ideally how I would use them and it shows against good teams under pressure.

I can’t be bothered to go through every player on the list, needless to say I think we have some good players who for the right price need to be traded. Just start buy putting the players you know can play into their best positions, keep some quality backup and then look at what you have left. Generally I’m not trading kids unless the sample size and form is enough to call it.

It’s also a lousy week to be doing it because GWS can play and the side they fielded yesterday highlighted some of our deficiencies. Completely dominated in the midfield and the air again, which is a poor look for a side slowing down the play and kicking poorly.

 

[Aussieviking1]

Disappointing and frustrating to watch.

Positive for me was that we didn't give up. After a terrible first quarter we really got ourselves back in the game and actually had a chance at one stage to get right back into the contest. Unfortunately our forward entries and finishing let us down.

The first quarter was a debacle. We got so many match-ups wrong. Every time we lost the ball GWS had players on their own all over the ground.

The second quarter was a lot better, and then the third we really had a good chance to get in front with about 20 inside 50s, however we just bombed it long again and again. The GWS defenders ate it up, either marking the ball or clearing it with ease.

Unfortunately playing Marsh as a forward didn't work, although he had a few moments. Parker was clearly our best forward, Kent got into the game a bit more as it went on but his skills were off again. Long was almost unsighted and may need to be dropped again.

Marhsall had a really good game against Mumford. That shows he can compete against the best, which is fantastic. I thought McKenzie was excellent as was Wilkie. Joyce looked out of his depth against Cameron but improved once he was moved.

The main thing we need to work on is our forward set-up and forward entries. It's just a mess at the moment. We also need more players that know where the goals are. We are missing Lonie, his pace and pressure troubles sides. Our forward pressure today was really poor.

Next week is another big test, but I think we can win.

Agree with your rundown. I think we just push our mids so far back there is nobody to kick to when we clear the ball from the backline. Therefore we bomb the ball from the back of the centre. We need to hit a connection between centre and half forward. If not at least go into the forward line with quick low long balls to give our forwards a chance and make their backs panic and no time to settle or kick to the fowards with penetrating kicks to space to separate the backs.
We need to change. Surely the coaches don't tell them to bomb like they do.
With the number of entries etc we should have kicked a huge score. We have the forwards just need that Roo marking forward between the arcs.

 

[sunny3193]

I thought in the first 5 games we looked to have an identifiable brand of footy. We looked tight down back. Methodical when moving the footy.

Last week we were back to an unrecognisable brand however I attributed that mainly to being a rotation down, Bruce cooked & adjusting to Gears out.

Today, we were back to 2018 levels. The players tried & dug in but it was messy. We didn’t switch or retain the footy playing it safe when we needed to. We got the footy, banged it on the boot as soon as we got possession & treated the ball like it was a hot potato.

Perhaps the injuries have caught up with us but one things for sure, we are back to playing a type of football where I cannot understand wtf we are trying to do other than bang it in the general direction of our goals.

I bloody hope we can get back to playing how we did in the first 5 rounds otherwise we’ll be 4-5 & up against Carlton who will see us as an easy kill.

The upside is that the players know they can play that way.
Injuries aside, they can play that way again.
Coaching panel needs to give them the encouragement and confidence to do so.

 

[pebblesofsand]

So in among all this doom and gloom - one thing not to forget.

In the 3rd quarter, after fighting back from 40+ points down against a top 4 side to get 16 points down, Parker gets his free kick that will put us only 10 points down - who among us didn't start thinking - jeez we're a real chance here!!

 

[Yawkey way]

Based on today's stats, 23 touches from Dunstan would just about make him.our best mid.

Cops a smashing on here for being exactly the player we drafted, a good honest mid who isn’t a star.

 

[Aussieviking1]

Id start 7 of those
But lets melt like **** over having a third of the list injured and getting beat by the side who had picks 1 3 5 7 9 11 13 15 in a great draft even though we had the chance to be only 10 points down with momentum because we hit the post
Jesus h christ

Relax everyone
No one expected a flag this year, hell not too many picked us for finals and even those that did, it was out of blind stupid loyalty and a choice to be positive like myself.
We have massive injuries
Chb in snake, our next sam fisher in robbo, our capt who is the general down there and is so under rated on here by some its not funny...just have a watch and see him organize the back line and watch the little things, not every capt is scott pendleburry accumulating touches delivering into F50 ffs.
Next our top draft pick has a knee...gee rekon he might be getting a gig atm if not injured, would expect a few to be bagging him too if he didnt kick five a game
Bytel gonna be a rocket, have patience on the kid, backs take time...we should know this huh, jake anyone??
Hanners imo is a bust and its the one thing im neg on but if he can get those legs right thats instant gun mid...instant...
Il eat my words like they're free jelly beans
Lonie, playing out his skin looks to be the most desperate on the field to tackle harass and be a general pest...really rate him
Bruce playing not right we can all see it.

So do we all thinj we wouldve playing the same brand and effort with those blokes in?
3 gun backs, 2 mids, a forward who is gonna be a gun as well and a pest
Plus stuvvy
8 first starters...

Fmd guys
Cmon
Instead we are comparing acres to ledger
Yes acres was ordinary yesterday, could we name anyone else in that same box ??
How did gresh the messiah go?
Billings?

If you were a supervisor and your best floor workers were all on sick leave would you exepct the same output?
Would your KPIs get met??
**** know
Youd get pantsed

We all live and breathe it
We are all die hard
But guys
Injuries is rhe number one reason teams dont get wins

Great post and agree.
Had expectations myself of finishing 10-12 spot especially after hearing pre season injuries.
Only thing that has annoyed me is the breakdown of process. Even at work with best workers missing i expect process to be the same but understand productivity may be lower.
If something like bombing the ball isn't working then advise of a change or advise correct procedure or more proficient work practice. We dominated entries but made it hard for ourselves. Stupid football or stupid/lack of direction.
We bragged about the appointments of coaching brains to improve this area but are seeing old poor patterns over and over again.
On the injury front hopefully this changes in our favor soon as it is killing us. Second half of year if all these guys are back could be really exciting.

 

[sunny3193]

apologies to anyone if i've spoilt their night with my rants.

just so unbelievably over being non-competitive and having to cop the excuses.

when are we genuinely going to be in the hunt with some confidence and feared by the oppo again.

just want some respect back for this club.

Understand.
Gotta look at the bigger picture, not week to week.
Sometimes that is difficult.

 

[gringo2011]

Crikey, a third of the team we'd hope to play finals is out, and they'd replace players who should still be honing their craft at Sandy.

The replacements are better than most of the existing ones. Battle, Paton, Wilkie etc would be Sandy players if the injuries didn't mount up.

 

[Sully111]

Carlisle, Roberton, hanneberry, McCartin

One midfielder that is yet to play for us

 

[gringo2011]

Agree with your rundown. I think we just push our mids so far back there is nobody to kick to when we clear the ball from the backline. Therefore we bomb the ball from the back of the centre. We need to hit a connection between centre and half forward. If not at least go into the forward line with quick low long balls to give our forwards a chance and make their backs panic and no time to settle or kick to the fowards with penetrating kicks to space to separate the backs.
We need to change. Surely the coaches don't tell them to bomb like they do.
With the number of entries etc we should have kicked a huge score. We have the forwards just need that Roo marking forward between the arcs.

We always have an outnumber because we require nearly every player to come and help out up the ground, we then have no-one to hit up up forward in space because there is a set opposition back zone with our guys all trying to run in there, not leading from a standing start.

 

[gringo2011]

Carlisle, Roberton, hanneberry, McCartin

Mc Cartin was struggling before injury and wasn't best 22, I'm not sure you can include him.

 

[cooperrules]

Elite , Really, so he is elite and cant get a game

Yeah makes sense right

 

[StCicatriz]

I'm.probs you're harshest critic, but no need to apologise.

Just control those expectations. We will get there.

It's not so much the expectation. I know we are shit. I know we are in the wilderness trying to find a way out. Just god damn over it. Like when will we turn this ship around. Just over being shit. Sick of being an absolute joke to other club supporters.

I dunno maybe I've just been worn down and having a mare.

Naughton is probably the breaking point this week.

 

[StCicatriz]

It's equal parts fantastic and terrible that Marshall is our best midfielder.

Yeap:-(

 

[StCicatriz]

The Melbourne fc we beat by 7 goals two weeks ago?

Who made the top 4 last year. Yeap that's them.

 

[StCicatriz]

Yeah great point - well thought out!!!!

ST KILDA

Player Injury Estimated Return
Logan Austin Shoulder Indefinite
Jack Bytel Back Season
Jake Carlisle Back Indefinite
Oscar Clavarino Ankle 1-2 weeks
Jarryn Geary Quad Indefinite
Dan Hannebery Hamstring/calves Indefinite
Max King Knee 1-2 weeks
Jack Lonie Knee 8-10 weeks
Paddy McCartin Concussion Indefinite
Lewis Pierce Concussion Test
Dylan Roberton Heart Season

So 4 players in our best 22 from last year? None of which are in the midfield.

 

[StCicatriz]

So your going to compare Naughton to Bruce , ones in his second season and the other has been in the system what 7-8 years ? Lets face it , we would love Naughton at our club

Kid is 19. Let that sink in. Not even paddy showed what he had at the same age.

 

[StCicatriz]

No I was comparing the "love" for Naughton to his actual forward line outputs.

Up to last nights game 6 goals in 6 games - less than Bruce same as McCartin's output last year. Hardly spectacular - he may turn out to be a an absolute gun but I'm sorry I don't get excited by single game efforts - don't you remember that once Billings kicked 5 goals in a game and Blake Acres actually got 30 possessions in a game!!!!

Like I said - shiny objects.

It's not just the single game. I watched him play at peel and for WA. He was very very good down back. But to see him move forward and perform had been excellent and it wasn't just one game. He was showing glimpses of it earlier. Do you not remember his JLT?