Autopsy Round 7, 2019: GWS v St.Kilda

[Saintbloke]

I'm a bit concerned about Long and Gresham- tons of talent, but just go missing. Does Gresham need a wake up at Sandy- Long does.

 

[plugger66]

I'm a bit concerned about Long and Gresham- tons of talent, but just go missing. Does Gresham need a wake up at Sandy- Long does.

Gresh certainly doesn’t. Just put him back forward for majority of the game.

 

[ScrappyDo]

Lauchie Neale, Charlie Cameron both left sides that were better off than where they went but did any way. North got players out of Port who looked ahed of them too. Momentum builds momentum, Bombers were able to attract players despite missing finals.

And none of those blokes are of the caliber that you're talking about. Neale and Cameron left for personal reasons, to a better list than ours and were not enticed only by big bucks. I can't think of a single example where a gun player has been poached from a contending team to a middling/bottom team for the reason of big $$$. Maybe there is one, but l cant think of it. There needs to be another factor involved. And we are particularly hamstrung being in Victoria where a homesick player has several better options available almost always. Honestly mate if were talking about the difference between 1M to a contending team or 1.2M to a struggling team, then the results are in. Buddy went to the Swans for less money. Shiel went to the Bombers for less. Danger went home. Lynch went to a contender for less. Gaff and Jelly bailed on Norff for less, so on and so on. The modle you're talking about has never happened. Gun players want success, not an extra 50k after tax.

 

[AirWinmar]

Richos fault. Should have put him in the middle so he could get 3 Brownlow votes.
We would have won.

You would expect all our forwards to have low posession stats the way we were going i50, due to bombing it instead of kicking it around to pick out targets. This is reflected in our low possesion count and high i50's.

 

[Peterbudge]

A lot has been said about the massive inside 50 discrepancy for the game but the numbers of marks and tackles for the game also help in explaining what happens i think.

We only had 61 marks which is equal second lowest across the league for the season, and just goes to show how awful we were at maintaining possession.

45 tackles was our lowest in a game since 2016. In the first half we had only recorded 17 or so. Its little wonder they kicked 18 goals from 42 entries with this sort of pressure.

 

[sunny3193]

It was me and a few others. Height doesn’t stop intercept marks. What stops intercept marks is better kicking and smarter players with the ball. Also worse kicking can also stop intercept marks. Port did that against wce.

We should be fine then.

 

[plugger66]

We should be fine then.

The problem is we need to deliberately kick worse. We will probably kick better trying to kick worse

 

[AirWinmar]

Marshall was good when he did get taps he was directing them to our mids, he was better around the ground than Mummy and had him flustered enough to keep doing dumb things. Their mids were way better than ours and easily won the centre contests. Kent kept presenting more than others but does dumb stuff all the time. He was trying at least and seems to be the nominated stay at home forward while others get up the field. Long pretty much unsighted and hard to criticise someone you didn't see. Marsh looked like he was trying too hard, got a goal and looked relieved. Bruce looked still troubled by injury, had limited run. Acres looked like he did a couple of amazing things but largely unsighted.

We actually broke even in Centre Clearance and lost Stoppage clearance which is a bit of an anomaly. Seems as though that is usually the other way around. Crows also belted us in Stoppage clearance, but from memory the other games we are generally close or win. Wonder if that is effected with Dunstan out

 

[PoppedCorn]

What was Hunter's ToG for the game? I watched the game in pieces on replay. One thing that stuck out was during the second they had a the 'time of bench' for some players and it was like 30s for someone, 2min for a couple of others' and then Hunter who had been on the bench for over 11mins (in the second).

88mins out of 130

 

[Premium]

88mins out of 130

most probably is because the player he played on murdered him - 10 disposals for a mid is not to good , but a positive was the 6 tackles.
the thing is if he is 79kg , my wife weighs more and would most probably tackle better.

kid just needs time - we have to have patients

 

[bergholt]

A lot has been said about the massive inside 50 discrepancy for the game but the numbers of marks and tackles for the game also help in explaining what happens i think.

We only had 61 marks which is equal second lowest across the league for the season, and just goes to show how awful we were at maintaining possession.

45 tackles was our lowest in a game since 2016. In the first half we had only recorded 17 or so. Its little wonder they kicked 18 goals from 42 entries with this sort of pressure.

Good stats. Interesting to see that our tackles vs opponent are still +50 even after that, 3rd behind Port and Hawthorn. And our marks vs opponent are now -131, which leaves us 2nd last ahead only of Richmond who are -251.

 

[bergholt]

Coaches Votes

10 Jeremy Cameron (GWS)
7 Zach Williams (GWS)
7 Nick Haynes (GWS)
2 Rowan Marshall (STK)
2 Tim Taranto (GWS)
2 Sebastian Ross (STK)

Feels like Seb was a bit lucky there, maybe Richo rates him. For the season now:

21: Ross (4)
14: Billings (3)
13: Gresham (2)
9: Marshall (3)
8: Bruce (1), Membrey (1)
7: Kent (1)
6: Geary (2), Lonie (1)
5: Webster (1)
4: Steven (1)
3: Newnes (2), Sinclair (1), Steele (2)
1: McKenzie (1), Paton (1)

 

[KingJim]

Granted, but the skills are utterly lamentable for a professional team. Other teams have less endeavour but because of basic execution of skills are able to produce a far better return of quality than what we are capable of. We have a team of endurance runners who try (and try quite hard, may I add)to kick a ball, when really what we need is a team that doesn't need to run itself into the ground, but be able to conserve energy throughout a match by being better by hand and foot. We may even get a score into three digits if we do it well enough

I do agree. I also think that my read on AFL for the last 15 years has been an incessant demand for athleticism. The game has gotten faster and faster, but has it become more skilled? So whilst we may have recruited athletic talent, this does not always equal great up-front skills. I remember a certain Ruckman of ours winning the sprint at an GF. Impressive. He's not with us anymore!

 

[Enclosed_Animal]

I was listening on radio, they play a heap of kids, I think they know they just have to pump games into them to sort through the list. It will click for them one day, they are getting better players. They are following the Brisbane model.

Apologies for the random tangent, but why does everybody keep repeating that Carlton are young? I don't understand it

On the weekend they played Jones (28), Murphy (31), Thomas (32), E. Curnow (29), Phillips (27) and Casbault (29)
Kruezer (29) and Simpson (35) were out injured but played the week before.

That's 8 players 27 or older (9 if you include Newman who turns 27 shortly). This is the same number of over 27 players Geelong and Hawthorn had on the weekend, and they are the two most experienced sides in the comp. On the weekend, we had 1 (Savage who was 28). GC had 2. Dogs had 3. Those are young teams.

More importantly, outside of Cripps their best players are not young. The top 10 of their B+F last year was:
1st - Patrick Cripps (166 votes)
2nd - Kade Simpson (108 votes) - 35 this year
3rd - Ed Curnow (98 votes) - 30 this year
3rd - Charlie Curnow (98 votes)
5th - Dale Thomas (71 votes) - 32 this year
6th - Liam Jones (48 votes) - 29 this year
7th - Zac Fisher (47 votes)
8th - Sam Rowe (43 votes) - Playing for us
9th - Matthew Wright (39 votes) - retired
10th - Marc Murphy (39 votes) - 32 this year

Their best players outside of Cripps, Walsh, Fisher and Curnow (when he occasionally turns up) are all north of 29. They aren't that young, they are just sh1t!

 

[TheEnsign]

Enclosed_Animal Yes on all points. It's a pet hate of mine, I am almost driven to call SEN about it every week.

The only explanation I can offer is that media types subtly push a 'narrative' to sell hope; with Carlton being such a big club the potential financial impact (game attendances, merch etc.) is too great to tell it like it is.

Once again this afternoon I was listening and Bolton was giving the post-game 'positive signs' speech and was getting a pass from the presenters and callers. Some Pies supporter rang up and was going on how they should 'stick fat' and give Bolts another four years to get the list to their potential. He sounded earnest but surely he had to be trolling.

 

[Peterbudge]

Good stats. Interesting to see that our tackles vs opponent are still +50 even after that, 3rd behind Port and Hawthorn. And our marks vs opponent are now -131, which leaves us 2nd last ahead only of Richmond who are -251.

Yeah think we want to play like Richmond a bit. Just get it fwd whatever way you can (not rely on over possession through marks). On the other hand get numbers back quickly in def and just allow the opp to chip it around util the opp makes an error or kick to a contest.

Interesting also that the best offensive teams this year so far (Cats, Giants and Pies) are in top 4 for marks and give up fewer turnovers than any other team. Not sure if this means they are valuing possession a bit more than the rest of the comp or they are just better at it!

 

[Peterbudge]

Another interesting stat from the weekend..

Average age was 23 yrs 8 months and average games was 56.6. Most inexperienced and youngest team out on the park!

 

[AirWinmar]

Yeah think we want to play like Richmond a bit. Just get it fwd whatever way you can (not rely on over possession through marks). On the other hand get numbers back quickly in def and just allow the opp to chip it around util the opp makes an error or kick to a contest.

Interesting also that the best offensive teams this year so far (Cats, Giants and Pies) are in top 4 for marks and give up fewer turnovers than any other team. Not sure if this means they are valuing possession a bit more than the rest of the comp or they are just better at it!

When we play well we have pressured teams and cause errors. I barely remember Adelaide or GWS missing 1 kick. Could be a reason our tackle numbers were low on the weekend. Gws 108 marks from 238 kicks.

 

[luca77]

Hey guys, have been quiet this week. 10 day Golden Week holiday over here, my bday and anniversary too.
I've missed most of the chat, but skimmed a bit and noticed some stuff about inside 50s.
Now Seb's been really good recently. Really good.
But how would you guys describe your level of optimism when he's got the ball approaching 50?

For me it's about on par with my optimism when my mates dragged me along to Twister nightclub in St.Kilda. I knew there'd be opportunities galore, I'd probably get some looks, maybe even an invitation to dance. But I also knew for sure I'd end up alone in a cab at the end of the night, drunk and talking cricket with the cab driver.

Anyway, it crossed my mind when I saw a FB headline saying Richo said we just didn't take our opportunities. I didn't read the article, but I hope he was including our inability to put the ball to a forward's advantage as part of those opportunities. As for the missed shots, missed tackles and missed other things, I'm pretty good at cutting our under-50 gamers slack when it comes to those things. I'm less patient when those mistakes are coming from our more experienced players. We sucked last year, and I felt like we sucked less early this year largely as a result of Seb, Newnes, Sav e.t.c playing like leaders. We need them to keep the form up all year. Acres, Billings and co are showing signs of being ready, but they're just not ready to do it week in week out for whatever reasons.

That's all I've got. Back to the wine dregs.

 

[cooperrules]

I'm a bit concerned about Long and Gresham- tons of talent, but just go missing. Does Gresham need a wake up at Sandy- Long does.

Long yes though he may be playing some sort of role within the team. So he might just keep playing.

Gresh is going to be a rollercoaster for supporters. He can do the amazing but he is an awful kick of the footy. His consistency will test the supporters patience.

 

[Saintbloke]

I have noticed all season, wins or losses, that we are not good in one-on-one marking contests.

 

[luca77]

I have noticed all season, wins or losses, that we are not good in one-on-one marking contests.

I don't think we have anybody on our list I'd expect to take a mark in a one-on-one contest, especially body-to-body.
Bruce has never really got his marks that way. Membrey's more a jumper and leader too.
Guys who might be able to do it would be Jake, Brownie, GOAT and Battle. I can't remember if White can do it well or not, haven't seen him for a while.
So, I'm not sure that's even something we can expect improvement on from this list. Probably should dictate our ball movement strategy a bit you'd think.
You might disagree of course.

 

[MOLTEN GANGLANDS]

gresh can be a fantastic kick of the footy, both long shots at goal, and short well weighted passes. But he's suddenly playing heaps more in the midfield with solid TOG, he's probably just exhausted and it's effecting his disposal. As his endurance gets better his kicking will go back to its usual better than average level

 

[Saint Watto]

Apologies for the random tangent, but why does everybody keep repeating that Carlton are young? I don't understand it

Great post there Enclosed.

It's scary scary stuff if your a Carlton supporter.

With the couple of Bloos supporters I know....when they go on and on about their young side....I just nod my head and agree.

As one poster stated late last year.....it may have even been you........the Blooos may not have even bottomed out yet.

I think that TheEnsign may have nailed it citing that the Blues are a big club historically.....and the media push the "hope" line as much as possible but there reaches a point where after continual losses that the reality has to be stated.

Their membership pre season was up a staggering 11K on the same point last year.......the "hope" factor kcking in.

After their first win...42 K were at Marvel last Sunday against Norf....again....the "hope" factor kicking in.

 

[BrutThough]

gresh can be a fantastic kick of the footy, both long shots at goal, and short well weighted passes. But he's suddenly playing heaps more in the midfield with solid TOG, he's probably just exhausted and it's effecting his disposal. As his endurance gets better his kicking will go back to its usual better than average level

I think he is almost trying too hard in the midfield right now. He just needs to use his instinct rather than try to do the amazing things.