Review Round 7, 2022 - Sydney vs. Brisbane Lions

Who were your five best players against Sydney?

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martinson said:
I'm sure we all do.

We're just talking crap and hypotheticals to pass some time reveling in our enjoyment of the footy club.

Not much point going over how good we are ,we all know that . May as well put in our two bob's worth about how we could be a bit better.

It is nice to have that luxury.

It is a little ironic though that no one seems to have anyone in the team currently in the gun , it's some of those not in the team.
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Yeah reckon you are right mate, get a bit grumpy at some of the posts. It is just talking crap I just feel some of the criticism is unwarranted, if you look for fault hard enough you will find something. I know the team is not perfect, none are, but we going pretty well I think!
 
MacMum said:
I thought I was the only one who thought the same thing....actually Browny just disappoints me a lot lately re our Lions and in general..
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If you ever getting a bit down on Brown just remember he knocked back 900,000 a year from Collingwood to stay with us through some tough times, actions speak louder than words(or wrong/lack of in this case 😉).
 

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briztoon said:
With the start of the season, I haven’t been talking about the mix being wrong, simply that our tall defender set up has not been working all that well.

I don’t know if it’s simply because Harris and Dizzy have been out of form.

Or if it’s us playing a zone, which sometimes sees our defenders guarding space rather than a direct opponent, and an opposition tall forward continually leading in to space, with a tall defender caught out of position.

Or if it’s a bit from column A and a bit from column B.
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There's also been a strange lack of desperation from Daddy and Dizzy. I can understand Diz trying to regain form and fitness and confidence in that shoulder but there have been games....especially early on in the year when Dad seemed like he was on mogadon.

So I know I've banged on about this for a while but now gives us the perfect opportunity to tweak our lineup.

Leaving aside my non rating of Joe, we now have a vacant tall forward position up for grabs with joe being out for 4 to 6. If we move daddy to FF it gives us the oppo to use Paine as that big mobile central defender. I love the idea of Paine, Adams, Darcy, Starce, kiddy and Richy as our back 6...........and I REALLY love the idea of Harris, Charles, Linc, Rayner, McStay, Bailey, Fort resting as our front 6.
 
did you watch
beardancer said:
There's also been a strange lack of desperation from Daddy and Dizzy. I can understand Diz trying to regain form and fitness and confidence in that shoulder but there have been games....especially early on in the year when Dad seemed like he was on mogadon.

So I know I've banged on about this for a while but now gives us the perfect opportunity to tweak our lineup.

Leaving aside my non rating of Joe, we now have a vacant tall forward position up for grabs with joe being out for 4 to 6. If we move daddy to FF it gives us the oppo to use Paine as that big mobile central defender. I love the idea of Paine, Adams, Darcy, Starce, kiddy and Richy as our back 6...........and I REALLY love the idea of Harris, Charles, Linc, Rayner, McStay, Bailey, Fort resting as our front 6.
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did you watch harris's game against sydney? he was tremendous in the backline and IMO is the glue that keeps it together. why would we want to shift our biggest defensive asset into the forward line with our defensive unit humming along so nicely
 
beardancer said:
There's also been a strange lack of desperation from Daddy and Dizzy. I can understand Diz trying to regain form and fitness and confidence in that shoulder but there have been games....especially early on in the year when Dad seemed like he was on mogadon.

So I know I've banged on about this for a while but now gives us the perfect opportunity to tweak our lineup.

Leaving aside my non rating of Joe, we now have a vacant tall forward position up for grabs with joe being out for 4 to 6. If we move daddy to FF it gives us the oppo to use Paine as that big mobile central defender. I love the idea of Paine, Adams, Darcy, Starce, kiddy and Richy as our back 6...........and I REALLY love the idea of Harris, Charles, Linc, Rayner, McStay, Bailey, Fort resting as our front 6.
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Yeah but will harris chase chip-scab flankers for 2 hours is the real question.
 
rye said:
did you watch

did you watch harris's game against sydney? he was tremendous in the backline and IMO is the glue that keeps it together. why would we want to shift our biggest defensive asset into the forward line with our defensive unit humming along so nicely
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We lost Joe for 4 to 6. we need a replacement.
 
beardancer said:
We lost Joe for 4 to 6. we need a replacement.
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Harris will stay down back. Our backline is really starting to gell now and keeping them together is more important than taking one of them out and possibly unsettling the back 6 a little when they are really starting to become a force. Worth mentioning that our backline has conceded the 4th lowest total of scores in the comp so any talk of our back 6 not performing is unwarranted in my opinion. Dizzy will get better the more games he plays.

Our forward line leads the comp in scoring so you cant tell me we would struggle improvise for a bit until Joe is ready to come back in. Fullerton the obvious choice this week in my opinion. On top of that, Hippy comes out of rehab as of Monday next week and there is no reason why he cant slot straight back in if needed. There is a strong argument that playing senior games will actually help him slot back into the 22 quicker than playing VFL providing he is passed fit to play by the medical staff.
 
beardancer said:
There's also been a strange lack of desperation from Daddy and Dizzy. I can understand Diz trying to regain form and fitness and confidence in that shoulder but there have been games....especially early on in the year when Dad seemed like he was on mogadon.

So I know I've banged on about this for a while but now gives us the perfect opportunity to tweak our lineup.

Leaving aside my non rating of Joe, we now have a vacant tall forward position up for grabs with joe being out for 4 to 6. If we move daddy to FF it gives us the oppo to use Paine as that big mobile central defender. I love the idea of Paine, Adams, Darcy, Starce, kiddy and Richy as our back 6...........and I REALLY love the idea of Harris, Charles, Linc, Rayner, McStay, Bailey, Fort resting as our front 6.
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I see PAYNE took 12 marks in the 2s....give him a go on one of those WC gorillas. Plus a fantastic battle between McGov/Dad.
 

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jonnobackpocket said:
What would you do? Please don’t say Payne because he simply not as good as any of the 3 playing.
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I’d probably go ask the Hawks coach, or Fremantle’s coach.

I don’t know what we should do. All I’ve been saying is that our tall defenders don’t look like they’re playing as well as a unit, as we’ve seen in the past.
 
briztoon said:
I’d probably go ask the Hawks coach, or Fremantle’s coach.

I don’t know what we should do. All I’ve been saying is that our tall defenders don’t look like they’re playing as well as a unit, as we’ve seen in the past.
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I know stats dont tell the whole picture but:

a) This time last year we won 4 lost 3. This year won 6, lost 1.
b) This time last year we had 599 points scored against us. This year we have had 532 points scored against us.

I watch the same games as you do (sometimes live & others on tele) and I just dont see where our tall defenders are underperforming like you say.

I guess looking at the bright side of your comments, if our talls down back are under performing as you say, and we have only dropped 1 game out of 7, imagine what we can achieve when our talls down back hit their peak at the business end of the season!
 
jonnobackpocket said:
What would you do? Please don’t say Payne because he simply not as good as any of the 3 playing.
Click to expand...
Have to agree that Payne currently behind the 3 talls, but he seems to attract a lot of criticism from some posters. I don't think Gardiner is playing that well and had a few kicked on him the other night. I Had to double check on the webpage to ensure its accuracy. Payne has had a total of 15 games and not more then 6 consecutive games. He has been dealing with stress fractures during 2018,2019 & 2021. I recall back in 2019 after Starc had played around 12-15 games a few posters had doubts about Starc...now look at him. McStay has had plenty of critics on big footy and now looks like signing a lucrative deal. I am not saying Payne will develop to that extent but he and Fullarton seem to be the whipping boys.
 
We are building nicely (including the defensive unit), it has been widely accepted on here that we have not been playing our best footy to start the season... the last 2 weeks v the Suns and Swans have been our best performances of the season IMO, although I still think we have a decent amount of improvement in us.

No defensive unit in the competition would have stopped what Buddy and the Swans did on the weekend in that 10 minute period, the fault laid in the middle of the ground not in our D50, 6 v 6 with opposition mids streaming out of the middle I would defy any team to stop an avalanche of goals. In fact it was highly impressive that we were able to turn it around.

On the defensive unit, even though I am a Gardiner fan I think our best balanced defensive 7 going into finals with the most flexibility re match ups would be >

Daniel Rich, Marcus Adams, Brandon Starcevich.
Keidean Coleman, Harris Andrews, Jack Payne.

Bench/7th defender- Noah Answerth.

I would not be distraught if as I expect the coaches went for Gardiner over Payne.
 
M Malice said:
We are building nicely (including the defensive unit), it has been widely accepted on here that we have not been playing our best footy to start the season... the last 2 weeks v the Suns and Swans have been our best performances of the season IMO, although I still think we have a decent amount of improvement in us.

No defensive unit in the competition would have stopped what Buddy and the Swans did on the weekend in that 10 minute period, the fault laid in the middle of the ground not in our D50, 6 v 6 with opposition mids streaming out of the middle I would defy any team to stop an avalanche of goals. In fact it was highly impressive that we were able to turn it around.

On the defensive unit, even though I am a Gardiner fan I think our best balanced defensive 7 going into finals with the most flexibility re match ups would be >

Daniel Rich, Marcus Adams, Brandon Starcevich.
Keidean Coleman, Harris Andrews, Jack Payne.

Bench/7th defender- Noah Answerth.

I would not be distraught if as I expect the coaches went for Gardiner over Payne.
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A fit Gardner will always get the nod before Payne at the moment.
 
briztoon said:
I’d probably go ask the Hawks coach, or Fremantle’s coach.

I don’t know what we should do. All I’ve been saying is that our tall defenders don’t look like they’re playing as well as a unit, as we’ve seen in the past.
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Who would you swap back lines with? Maybe Melbourne…..
 
Pisses me off even more that CEY took the pos he did and robbed us off the opp to keep on say Joyce or Ballenden.

The coaches obviously rated Fullarton over Ballenden - not sure it was b/c Fullarton was contracted and Ballenden wasnt, but I reckon Connor is a much better player Fullarton and wouldve been a better option waiting in the wings for this situation.The one thing as an uneducated footy person is that Fullarton, like Ballenden are both pretty passive and soft players and lack that aggressive white line bull you want in a key fwd. Obviously the vibe is Fullarton to play, but I'm picking Payne and even Froggy over Fullarton by a mile who doesn't look anything like an AFL player or at least has never looked like one to me. I mean, would Fullarton even get a game at anyone of the bottom 4 clubs if he was on there list this week - I doubt it, so not sure why he does with the second best outfit.
 
Tom14 said:
Yes I know both you and Quigley have a particular view on our tall backs, I just disagree with it.

Is the make up of our KPDs ideal? For me no - I'd love to have a Sicily or Ryan style interceptor, or Darcy Moore instead of dizzy. But we can't have everything we want and based on our list, I think its the best one. In the VFL games I've seen Payne has done some good things, and turned the ball over quite a bit just as he always does. More important than that though, Dizzy, Marcus and Harris are settled and we are starting to see Harris back to his best as a result. Bringing in Payne disrupts that. In the future I hope I'm wrong and Payne steps up when he gets a chance - but I think his output has been poor-mixed in most games he has played.

Buddy is in my view arguably the greatest forward ever (certainly the best I have ever seen) and is still a great player. I can't fault Dizzy for being beaten by silver service out of the centre bounce just as I can't blame Marcus for being beaten by Hawk in round 4. Buddy going off the chain is going to happen.

Defence is a team thing and bringing consistent pressure is the most important thing we can do to shore things up. We restricted Sydney to 16 points in a half yesterday - but when our pressure dropped off in the third quarter and they waltzed out of the middle, they scored in a burst. We survived something like 30 inside 50s in the first quarter yesterday because we were pressuring the ball and our talls were in position to sweep it up.
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You have mentioned before that you are not a fan of Payne and that is fair enough, and he has not shown enough yet in a very interrupted AFL career to replace any of the 3 talls, but to suggest he turned the ball over like he always does, led me to 2021 AFL stats via AFL Tables - 2021 Stats - Player Lists
where in 2021 at AFL level;
Adams 17 games had 47 clangers
Gardiner 9 games had 21 clangers,
Fullarton 12 games had 17 clangers
Payne 10 games had 13 clangers
T. Berry 11 games had 13 clangers

FWIW I believe Berry is just too much of a pressure player and tenacious not to succeed at AFL and Payne is simply too big, strong and for his size fast not to be a reasonably good player.
 
On the quiet said:
You have mentioned before that you are not a fan of Payne and that is fair enough, and he has not shown enough yet in a very interrupted AFL career to replace any of the 3 talls, but to suggest he turned the ball over like he always does, led me to 2021 AFL stats via AFL Tables - 2021 Stats - Player Lists
where in 2021 at AFL level;
Adams 17 games had 47 clangers
Gardiner 9 games had 21 clangers,
Fullarton 12 games had 17 clangers
Payne 10 games had 13 clangers
T. Berry 11 games had 13 clangers

FWIW I believe Berry is just too much of a pressure player and tenacious not to succeed at AFL and Payne is simply too big, strong and for his size fast not to be a reasonably good player.
Click to expand...

I think its fair to point out that both Adams and Gardiner can have a propensity for mistakes (bet Dizzy's are more free kicks against rather than turnovers). Which isn't to say that is better than Payne's turnovers - free kicks against are a problem! But to my eyes I think Payne has more often been out of position than not with the exception of a couple of games (he was very solid against GC in 2020 and did a good job on Gary Rohan in the 2020 prelim). In that post I was specifically commenting on what I'd see of Payne in the reserves where he was very good for the level, but still made the same sort of errors. To be fair to Payne, I haven't watched every game.

Obviously, Adams brings a hell of a lot of strengths to the table in terms of intercept marking. Dizzy I freely admit is far more debatable, but the one thing I have noticed every time Payne has played is that the overall unit has been put out of joint because Harris tries to cover for Payne far too much. That was pretty evident in our game v Richmond in the regular season in 2020 and led to a bunch of easy goals for Lynch because Harris was distracted. I'd also say matchup wise the coaches have less faith in Payne to execute a matchup and leave Harris free to float - e.g. there's no chance that they'd have started Payne on Buddy yesterday.

In any case, I'm definitely the person most down on Payne - I think he's great backup to have but not sure he'll ever be a dependable AFL level player week in week out.
 
Tom14 said:
I think its fair to point out that both Adams and Gardiner can have a propensity for mistakes (bet Dizzy's are more free kicks against rather than turnovers). Which isn't to say that is better than Payne's turnovers - free kicks against are a problem! But to my eyes I think Payne has more often been out of position than not with the exception of a couple of games (he was very solid against GC in 2020 and did a good job on Gary Rohan in the 2020 prelim). In that post I was specifically commenting on what I'd see of Payne in the reserves where he was very good for the level, but still made the same sort of errors. To be fair to Payne, I haven't watched every game.

Obviously, Adams brings a hell of a lot of strengths to the table in terms of intercept marking. Dizzy I freely admit is far more debatable, but the one thing I have noticed every time Payne has played is that the overall unit has been put out of joint because Harris tries to cover for Payne far too much. That was pretty evident in our game v Richmond in the regular season in 2020 and led to a bunch of easy goals for Lynch because Harris was distracted. I'd also say matchup wise the coaches have less faith in Payne to execute a matchup and leave Harris free to float - e.g. there's no chance that they'd have started Payne on Buddy yesterday.

In any case, I'm definitely the person most down on Payne - I think he's great backup to have but not sure he'll ever be a dependable AFL level player week in week out.
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I was at Burpengary when Payne spent some time on Buddy in his first ever senior game (Cam also played), and he did OK on Buddy and laid a really strong tackle, after that, out for whole season.

Agree when Payne made his debut against Richmond, Harris did try and cover for him and this left Lynch free.

Also agree that the coaches appear not to have complete faith in him, as last year they picked Lester ahead of Payne and Riewoldt (in his 300th) kicked 6 on Lester at Metricon.

I am not suggesting at this stage Payne is coming in for anyone, but goodness I remember how ordinary Gardiner and Harris were in their early years. Admittedly in a much weaker Lions team. Looking at Gardiners stats over the last 6 or so years he averages over 2 clangers per game, doesn't sound too excessive, but Payne in 10 games last year had a total of 13, and is still learning. I believe Payne will turn into a reasonable defender, but only if he gets consistent exposure and that probably won't be happening at the Lions. Be interesting if Gardiners signs a new contract. Anyway good discussion.
 

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